Difference between Aldo's 1084

[Brian.Evans]

I think that people tend to make the relative ease of HT the focus point. Seems like sometimes because it's referred to as a "beginner's steel" the fact that it makes a great blade gets overlooked. "If it's a beginner's steel, it can't possible make a good blade right?"

I think it makes a great all around blade for big and small knives. We could argue all day about which steel is best for which knife type. No one single steel will be perfect for every knife in every application. But 1084 is as good of an all around trade-off as any other steel. It's durable, tough, forging friendly, holds a good edge and yet resharpen's fairly quickly.

The fact that it tends to be one of the simplest to heat treat should be looked on as an added benefit not the main focus, much less as the only thing 1084 has to offer.

See, thats what comes out a lot when people talk about 1084.
"Seems like sometimes because it's referred to as a "beginner's steel" the fact that it makes a great blade gets overlooked. "If it's a beginner's steel, it can't possible make a good blade right?" "
Maybe that's why I picked O1 to learn on instead of 1084. No longer gentlemen! As soon as I use all the steel I have, I will be placing an order for 1084 from the baron.

 

[chad2]

well theres my answer

 

[Don Hanson III]

Does Aldo's 1084 Really have enough vanadium to make a difference? Seems to me it's just a trace element and not an added alloy?

The .18-22% in W2 does make a difference, but I really don't think .00xx (can't remember the #) makes any diff. I could be very wrong though.

As far as 1084 compared to 52100. I have 500+ lbs of Aldo's 1084, but will not let any 52100 in my shop.

 

[Burton Harruff]

I believe that all the talk of 1084 being a good beginner steel in the way of HT has hurt its reputation somewhat on this forum. I have seen a few knives posted in the sale section not sell or drop of the page that were 1084. Many times these knives made of a "simple" steel were forged and finished better than other knives made of more complex steels that sell very quick. The perception being that 1084 won't perform as well.

From Kevin Cashen's website.

1084 is nearly identical to 1080 resulting in it being one of the easiest steels to work and heat treat with a variety of equipment but also having slightly increased edge holding. This combination makes it one of the best choices for beginners to expert bladesmiths.

This is a link to Cashen's info page on 1084 check out the rockwell numbers, it will get very hard when HT is done right.
http://www.cashenblades.com/steel/1084.html

 

[Kentucky]

I really like 1084 and I agree with what Burton just said..It often gets overlooked and gets overlooked on the "For sale" section..
Its funny, people seem to think that 1095 is better when thier is practically no real world working difference..If any at all..The difference is that many people who heat treat 1095 dont have the means to heat treat it correctly but could use the same methods on that 1084 and end up with a better blade..1095 is NOT a begginers steel..A properly heat treated 1084 blade with cut circles around a 1095 blade that wasnt..You have a lot better chance heat treating that 1084 properly with canola oil and a forge than you do that 1095...

 

[sunshadow]

My recollection from talking to Aldo was that after the first bunch of steel he bought was such good stuff that lots of people (me included ) wanted more after he sold out of it that he talked to small steel refiners in Europe and found a mill that would custom mix small batches to match the specs of his original steel which had a small bit of added Vanadium for grainsize control. There is not enough Vanadium in it for enhancing the wear resistance.

-Page

 

[chad2]

Does Aldo's 1084 Really have enough vanadium to make a difference? Seems to me it's just a trace element and not an added alloy?

The .18-22% in W2 does make a difference, but I really don't think .00xx (can't remember the #) makes any diff. I could be very wrong though.

As far as 1084 compared to 52100. I have 500+ lbs of Aldo's 1084, but will not let any 52100 in my shop.

Do have any reason why? Have you had a bad experience with it or do you think 1084 can be a better steel then 52100?

 

[Don Hanson III]

Do have any reason why? Have you had a bad experience with it or do you think 1084 can be a better steel then 52100?

I tried 52100 years ago and could not get it to perform. Didn't seem to reach full hardness and didn't hold an edge very well. Was using a lot of 01 at that time and it was outperforming 52100 by a bunch. Just didn't like it at all.

 

[xmtgx]

Does Aldo's 1084 Really have enough vanadium to make a difference? Seems to me it's just a trace element and not an added alloy?

The .18-22% in W2 does make a difference, but I really don't think .00xx (can't remember the #) makes any diff. I could be very wrong though.

The small amounts of V in the 1084 were specifically put there because he wanted it there, it does make a difference.

 

[12345678910]

I believe that all the talk of 1084 being a good beginner steel in the way of HT has hurt its reputation somewhat on this forum.

That's an interesting perception, because I'll wager most damascus sold is a 1084 15n20 combo and it's always regarded at a premium

 

[12345678910]

I tried 52100 years ago and could not get it to perform. Didn't seem to reach full hardness and didn't hold an edge very well. Was using a lot of 01 at that time and it was outperforming 52100 by a bunch. Just didn't like it at all.

Maybe you should have put it in the freezer - Wink Wink

 

[jdm61]

Don, I don't think it makes much of a difference as far as abrasion resistance like it does in your W2, but it does are far as controlling grain size. I discovered with the first knife I ever made with Aldo's stuff, which had to be in early 2008 when it first hit, that the stuff has very fine grain and takes a nasty edge.

Does Aldo's 1084 Really have enough vanadium to make a difference? Seems to me it's just a trace element and not an added alloy?

The .18-22% in W2 does make a difference, but I really don't think .00xx (can't remember the #) makes any diff. I could be very wrong though.

As far as 1084 compared to 52100. I have 500+ lbs of Aldo's 1084, but will not let any 52100 in my shop.

 

[Burton Harruff]

I use 1084 and 15n20 on all my Damascus that I make and it is a great combo. In my post I meant it as a stand alone steel. I really like Aldo's 1084 to forge and other than Don's W2 it is the most forged steel coming out of my shop.

 

[Don Hanson III]

Just to be clear, I do like Aldo's 1084. I bought a couple hundred pounds from each of the first 3 runs he did.

It's the main ingredient in my pattern welded steel

 

[Sam Salvati]

The fine vanadium carbide precipitates at the grain boundaries and creates nucleation energy sites that foster grain division

better?

-Page

That should read "the FOXY Vanadium rocks like to chill out in the ally, they like to have parties there".

 

[Rick Marchand]

That should read "the FOXY Vanadium rocks like to chill out in the ally, they like to have parties there".

Okay, I sharted a little(holding back a laugh) when I read that... thanks Sam. You need to translate Verhoeven's book.... I would definately pay big money for that.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Along with Sam's translation of the metallurgical info, the nomenclature of 1084 needs to be changed to:

"The Perfect Eutectiod Steel"

There, now doesn't that sound like better blade material than 1084?