Different light and background photo setup

[rbslaughter]

Any help would be appreciated.. I thought I did everything just right to bring the photo over from Fototime and place it in this post, but I messed it up somehow. I'm new to computers, but it didn't look that hard..LOL...Coop, you use fototime right? I resized the image just like you directed in and earlier post..Anything I might have overlooked? Sorry for the false start ..I'll get my act together and get it up as soon as I can...Rich Slaughter

 

[rbslaughter]

Well, lets try this again. picture please...

 

[rbslaughter]

These are pictures I took using this box the very first time I tried it. The pictures have mistakes here and there. But I was encouraged enough to try and do better..I have since taken photos that are much better than these, and it was tempting to show those. But I thought it was important to show you all the very first attempts, warts and all... I started that night with some of my production knives..Pictured are a AG Russell one hand knife with stag, two Paragon/Herron interframes, a nice "one of" William Henry with gold nuggets in each bolster and carved pearl scales, and one custom knife which is my T.Prinsloo blued folder. These photos are straight from the camera, with zero adjustments of any kind..Just the raw pictures...

 

[Murray White]

you have it working now Rich. Not sure what happened with the first attempt but don't worry about it. Shots look good. Now are others going to submit some images too? This getting to be fun. I have always enjoyed my teaching of photography and it is nice to see someone use the information and come up with good results. Keep it up Rich.

As I mentioned, use a reflector at the front as the reflector can only put light back that it actually sees. Everyone--be sure to keep off extraneous lights in the area in which you are doing the work and Rich can attest that the 6500K bulbs are important.

 

[rbslaughter]

Here's a picture from the last session I did Monday evening..Still some mistakes, but not a bad photo. Actually, the photo (at least MY photos..) don't really do this knife justice. This knife in your hand just Rules..I worked with Jerry Corbit on the design, (materials etc..) and had Gary Williams scrim it for me. Jerry sent the bolsters to Chris Meyers for the engraving and inlay. The file work and inserts on the spine and inside that Jerry is known for are just awesome..I hope the pictue looks as good here asit did before I resized and compressed it to post here..Well, I want to thank you for looking, and say thanks again to all the people that gave freely of their time and information on this subject. (special thanks to Murray) I mentioned in my earlier post back on 2/9 that getting detailed info that was "dialed in" to specifically address shooting knives was just SO helpfull Regards, Rich Slaughter

 

[ZENGHOST]

Looks great, Rich--gives me hope that maybe I can actually do this. I'm working on putting a box together, but don't know if I have enough to do this anytime soon. If I do, then I'll post some pics.

Rich, what kind of camera are you using? Actually, what kind of cameras are all of you guys using?

Also, I forget if this was covered earlier, but do you still use the flash?

 

[SharpByCoop]

Rich, you are doing a fabulous job! The setup is producing very good pics, and who can argue with the quality of those knives!!! I hope you'll do a display on each of them with a couple of views.You don't have to do my crazy insets, just show a couple of views!

Although it looks very dramatic, I find it a little too dark on the forward side. I would add a fill-in light to catch some of the details here. You will still have your shadowing.

Thanks for the look. Now send me an .MP3 of your guitar work, metal lover!!!

Coop

 

[Murray White]

Zenghost--the key to doing the knife photography is to NOT use flash from the camera. What is being done in these lessons is to show a method by which for a small investment you can setup a lighting tent that will provide good images without using electronic flash etc.

Some photographers do use EF but not from the front. The lighting of knives is easiest done from the back with reflection of light back into the shadow areas. However, Coop has shown that with Photoshop the removal of the deep shadow can be removed easily and quickly.

Another way of reducting the shadow is to move the diffussion material closer to the subject. Diffused light closer to the subject yields softer more diffused shadows whereas non-diffused light from farther away will yield more distinct and darker shadows. Look at the difference of a sunny and overcast day.

The setup that Rich is using would have cost less than $200US. Rich is using a Canon G1, I use the Nikon 995 but there are others that will do fine.

you will want a camera with a 3:1 optical zoom, macro, self-timer and at least 2.1 megapixel. If you plan to do prints, go higher. Add a tripod which you should be able to get for $100 or less (make sure it has a ball/socket head)and you will be set to go.

good luck and be sure to post to the thread any images you get. feel free to email if I can be of help.

 

[ZENGHOST]

Okay, I kind of figured that controlling the lighting was a lot easier without the flash, but wasn't sure. My box is going to end up looking a lot like Coop's--mainly because I was at the store and just picked up some foam core poster board. I just need to pick up the diffusor for the top and figure out a lighting source. I also need to pick up a good tripod.

Murray--I notice that your setup (and Rich's setup) has foil on one side but not the other--can you explain the reason for this? Right now my camera is a 2.1 megapixel Canon S110. 2X zoom and timer, but no macro feature (that I know of). I'm going to try it with this camera first and depending how good/promising it turns out, I will be looking into getting either a Canon G3 or either the Olympus C4040 or C5050.

 

[ZENGHOST]

...you know what'd be cool? If we could take one knife and pass it around to all the photo buffs and have each of them submit their best photo(s) of it. Each person could describe their equipment, setup and technique and reasons for picking that particular shot/angle/whatever. Maybe one of our resident knifemakers has a knife that they would like photographed and would be willing to loan it out--then they would have a bunch of shots to choose from. I think it'd be interesting to see all the different styles that would result from this. What do you guys think?

 

[Murray White]

Zenghost-- I think that with the light coming in directly from above can result in a somewhat "flatter" image than when the light strikes the subject at an angle. If you use the same setup as Coop, I'd suggest that you get a normal Flourescent fixture and hook it into the ceiling or be able to suspend it above the photography setup. You will also want to ask for Daylight Flourescents and in the 4 foot size, I believe they will be 5500K. I have those available to me in the area I photograph now and could have gone that route without the tent arrangement if I had wanted to. I like the tent as it is also portable.

When I had my business, all the lighing in the area of my workspace was done with 5500K bulbs so that I could view the finished photograph the way the color quality should be and not have it affected by off-color lighting (unlike an off color joke which my photos might have been lol)

The reason I have one panel with transluscent material and on with reflective is that I could add a bit of fill by bounce light off the transluscent and more fill from the reflective material. Another possiblility is to have both as transluscent so that lights could be aimed thru them. Because I generally like the handle to be on the R, the shinier material is needed there as there needs to be more exposure on the handle than the blade.

I think the most important thing regarding these tutorials is to see some of the work by those that are trying to use the information and materials.

Regarding the camera--macro mode is pretty important because the distances that you are working from the subject is close and many cameras just don't focus close enough. you will want to do close ups of embellishment and file work etc and you need to get the camera close to the subject.

The cameras you are looking at are more than adequate for the job.

 

[Boink]

Hey, guys! Just jumping in here with one I shot just a little while ago. The subject is high-gloss, so direct soft box light would obscure things badly with all that reflection on the irregularly shaped surface characteristics.

I wound up putting the light box down low, almost cutting out the light as though the box face was down flat against the table, but then lifting it up a tad. The subject was forward of whatever light was coming through. (as evidenced by the highlights on the subject).

Next, placed white card on the other side to capture and reflect back some light so as to fill in the deep shadows that evolved. Murray - this one's for you in that it's fresh out the camera with no adjustments whatsoever. I used the E-10's automatic exposure on this one, with no intervention with any of the controls.

This one sort of jumps out at 'ya, as though you could just pick it up! Can't wait to actually do the black point and white point on it and then a bit of sharpening to REALLY make this pop!

Anyway, that's it for now. I'd like to get back in time and read all the prior stuff going on!

 

[rbslaughter]

Zenghost-I'm still experimenting with my set up every time I use it, and I have removed the foil on mine twice, and tried adding the same diffusion material on the right hand side. I'm like Murray in that I personally like to see and do pictures with the handle on the right side of the photo. Especially for fixed blades. It is probably because I'm right handed. I had OK results, but quickly learned that the light for that panel has to be pretty far away or it just overpowers the other lighting causing shadow problems. Also, the knife I was trying to photograph had a blued damascus blade that had a "shine" to it, so I never got a "keeper photo" with that lighting set up. I made a triangle piece of spandex, and attached velco to the frame on that side when I made the box however. So when I want to try that, it literally takes one minute to give it a try. The foil seems to work pretty well putting the diffused light back to the handle without being harsh.

I really don't know any of the nuts and bolts of photography as I tried to point out. But everyone involved in this discussion here has been more than willing to help, and they have made all the beginner mistakes long ago. They can help you steer clear of those..What more could you ask for??

NOW...about that idea of a bunch of guys having a go at the same knife, I'm all over that. That would truly be fun. Think of all the **** we could stir up "dogging" each others pictures.. As for the knife, anybody mind if I call Joe Kious and ask him if he has anything laying around???? I'm all for it...Can I go last??

 

[Murray White]

Zenhost or others, just got a message on TKCL that David Broadwell's wife, Sue is upgrading/selling her digital camera.

http://www.david.broadwell.com/olympus.html

The price is there on the page and while I don't know current values of this camera or a lot about it, it probably is worth checking out.

Kewl, shot too, Boink. Now you just have to keep your pinkies out of the pudding.

 

[rbslaughter]

When I was looking at cameras, I'm sure I checked out this model that Mr. Broadwell's wife is selling. (or the later version). It has everything you would want to do this type of up close photography, and she is throwing in a card (64k) and and adapter (a must..)... those alone are worth 125.00 or so. 285.00 is more than fairly priced. Anyone interested could go to dpreview.com. and read the specs and reviews. This is a great site that Murray White gave me when I was shopping for a camera. They also have a forum like ours here that you can get tips and suggestions from.

I wanted to pass on a mistake I made last time I was taking some pictures..I was using a large piece of brown to gold art paper as a background, and decided to change to something else. I normally remove the background when I change, but got lazy this time, and just put a new piece of mat board in on top of it. The new piece was much smaller... Well, all my pictures from that point on had a gold tint to them...I'm sure you can figure out what happened. The brown to gold paper was giving it's shade off against the white inside of the light tent. Moral...only have one color or backdrop in your tent. If you change to a larger piece, and it covers up the previous one completely, no problem. The reverse is not true...Just a rookie mistake, but it ruined a couple of good shots, and I don't get that many "keepers" to begin with, so it hurt a little..Regards, Rich

 

[Murray White]

post the image of the result from the mistake Rich. Easier to see what happens from an actual image. I have a few shots that I'll try to get together showing a similar situation from different backgrounds I have tried to use.

 

[RL]

Originally posted by Murray White

Kewl, shot too, Boink.

You see Murray, I knew you'd warm up to Riggercoat after all

Boink, that is an AWESOME knife!

RL

 

[Boink]

Originally posted by Murray White

Kewl, shot too, Boink. Now you just have to keep your pinkies out of the pudding.

ROTFL!

I know, I know, Murray! I didn't heed your advice on keeping a bit of clay nearby to create a quickly-done support! I thought my finger was faster and wound up getting it burned!

edited to add: Thanks, RL!

That one's the Mad Dog Mirage X Operator with JSP Sheath and grip, done in rigger coat, with an Execulite harness. I should have shot one with just showing the matte black blade contrasted with the gloss finished handle.

The knife was an experiment that turned out good; the grip is an improvement for my particular hand over the standard one originally provided. The grip issue I had was what got the whole thing started. It's like doing a home improvement - one thing is attached to another and before you know it - you've got new drapes, carpet and reupholstery on your couch!

 

[ZENGHOST]

Hey, Coop--looking at the picture of your setup, are the lights on the stand halogen? I saw a setup like that at Home Depot but I remember you said that it was giving a yellowish cast to your pics. I've been trying to find a fluorescent setup like yours, but I kinda don't have a place to hang it from, and I can't seem to find the right fixture.

Murray, I also can't find those 5500k light bulbs--are they a speciality item or should I be able to find it at a hardware store? Everything I see is measured in Watts.

Since I didn't have a lighting source, I just took my setup outside in the sunlight and this is what I came up with. Of course the original was on the dark side since my lighting sucked, but I just used the "Auto Levels" function in my Photoshop Elements and it got a little better. I just went with a plain white background for the first try/test. I just used my EDC--I wanted to try a pic with the MOP.

 

[Murray White]

shot looks pretty good Zenghost. I find white background very difficult to work with.

A specialty lighting store would be the best place to find the 5500 K (Kelvin). Knifemakers that forge will know this term as it is based upon different colors created when metal is heated.

The reason I suggested the system I learned from Mitch Lum and is being used by Rich is that it is pretty easy to create and brings the light from an angle and also, I know that the Daylight Flourescent bulbs are available at Home Depot.

The info for those bulbs is as follows

Phillips Daylight Energy Saving bulb #810608
Code Daylight EL/O DL50
15w similar to 50W (790 lumens)of incandescent bulb
It is a screw in type with life of 10,000 hours
I recommend 4 bulbs from the rear or in the configuration that Rich speaks of. He said that the price is about $12.50 US each.

one method you might try with Coops box is to get a track lighting setup that takes screw in bulbs (not quartz) and hang that above the box. I'd still recommend the other setup though.