Disagreements and Good Intentions

As usual Yvsa has shared a tiny portion of his wisdom that towers over us all.

Although I am, on the whole, anti-religious; anti-political; anti-scantly-clad-females, I can't recall ever being offended by those I consider my friends here in the Cantina/Madhouse: Yandu, Yvsa, Dan, Carter, Dave, Nasty, Munk ... If I've left your name out please consider it the momentary lapse of an old man.

There's an ancient saying on the net ... "Whoever brings up Hitler first - loses." I belive we can avoid ad-homen and argument from athourity (especially divine athourity), but politics is so touchy I can't help wishing it be moved out of the Cantina.

Bush is Hitler.

Namaste, amigos.
 
munk said:
As long as we're airing all this out- I've heard a couple allusions to 'all powerful' mod, or 'disagree with mod' stuff.

Where's that coming from?

munk
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I think locking a thread is something most ordinary forumites cannot do. Seems pretty powerful to me.

Just be aware that if political discussions are allowed here, be prepared for what you get. Don't run and "lock" the thread when you decide that "enough is enough". Personally, as I have said, I think political discussions belong in the Political Arena forum. But I will play by whatever rules are set. Just don't change the rules mid-stream on me.

Semp
 
Two things I rarely discuss with friends, especially "armed" friends, are politics, and religion. If I think the thread is political in nature, I will rarely post on it. Religious posts now, I will post on, if only to learn more. I'm presently doing some personal research on various religions. As long as no one gets too badly bent out of shape, and we can continue to have civil discussions, I vote no changes. Heck, what can anyone say that will do any lasting damage? Will anything said be worth even a footnote, in ten, or even 5 years from now? Will they even change how I go about living tomorrow? Everyone has their own way of thinking, and belief systems. As long as we can learn from each other, all is not lost. And what, exactly does this have to do with khukuri's? Everything!

SSG Bill
 
Semper, I see your point, but I don't think Munk locked the thread because he disagreed. I (and I'm sorry if I'm incorrect) think that he closed it because somebody used a racial slur. When such a thing is used in a heated manner, even if it was used in an absurd, ironic way, it is in bad enough taste to kill a thread, IMO. By the last couple of posts, that thread had gone beyond hope of the self-restraint on which we pride ourselves. It was a hurtful flamewar that badly needed to end. I think Munk was more than justified.

But we should also remember that Munk didn't just close the thread. He started a new one asking if his policy and the policy of this forum are out of line. I think that his couse of action in this matter, regardless of whether or not he was right, wrong, out of line, angry, biased, or whatever, was pretty much what it should have been by the end.

And why should feelings be hurt over this? Are we not civil people? Can we not disagree and still be friends? I don't buy that. This place is great. Just take a break, and shake hands. We're all here for the same reasons. We're all, as Howard Wallace said, "Enlightenment-Seekers-Carrying-Big-Sharpened-Knives." Let's not let this thing get away from us.

Nam
 
Just be aware that if political discussions are allowed here, be prepared for what you get. Don't run and "lock" the thread when you decide that "enough is enough". >>>>>>>>>> Semper fi

So that's what that is about. Except you first said it before I locked the thread, didn't you? Apriori agenda. My mailbox is open. Anyone has a problem with me can write.


As for this, there was no good response I could think of from anyone to the racial 'as example only' slurs. The thread would crash and burn. I could have responded- you think I could not have found words to deal with such sloppy thinking? But it would prove the point that politics are bad. And be a pointless, damaging, personal fiasco for everyone. I locked it, and then opened up a new venue, a new thread, without the former BS, and asked you guys to decide what you wanted from your forum. That's not cutting and running. That's square and fair.

Let's talk about something else; you don't negotiate with terrorists. I can't lock down every thread that has been baited and sabotaged by a guy who is doing it to accomplish just that. I think that was probably a mistake, and next time I'll simply edit the offensive slurs out. I'm learning as a mod. This is interesting and at times trying stuff. The goal is that time when we understand one another. I wish we could get there now.

Finally, the participants on that political thread did not burn that thread; you and Kismet and finally Clearblue demanded there had to be a problem because it was a 'political thread'.

That isn't right. Any dispassionate reading of the conversation in the thread could not conclude there was a problem. So what is the real problem? Why would anyone stop a thread that was not in danger?


munk
 
Just in case there's any misunderstanding as to where I sit on the issue...

OT: fine with me. I'm as guilty of it as anyone. If I'm not interested, I won't read it.

What's said: fine with me. If I disagree I will tell you and explain why. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it one way or the other.

My own behavior: feel free to ignore me as necessary but do me a favor and shoot me an email about it. I tend to think highly of the crowd here in general and if I'm angering someone with my antics, I'd like to know about it so that I can stop. (One time offer. Don't expect to hear this from me in person, and don't tell anyone that I said it.)

As a group, we do very well as far as forums go. My last post on this thread doesn't accurately reflect this fact but it is indeed a fact. Take a look anyplace else (even on BF) and tell me that my observation isn't correct. Our collective maturity and grace give our mods some breathing room in how they deal with things. I appreciate this and I try to do my best to keep it going. We're human, though, and we all have our failings. We do a good job nonetheless.

Thanks, folks. And thanks, mods.

This place, and the people here, have improved me in a way that's difficult to describe. I'm hardly perfect and I joke that I'm half the man that I want to be, but if you knew me personally you'd know that I'm twice the man that I used to be - Uncle Sam gets his due, but most of it is on you. I appreciate this and I only wish that I could reciprocate. Maybe someday I will be able to. Until then, thanks.

I like things just the way they are. We talk, we argue, sometimes we yell. It reminds me very much of my family. We don't always use kind words but most of the time, with most of the people involved, we love one another. I take nothing personally. If you take something that I say personally and we ever meet, I'll buy you a beer and you can tell me all about it. If that's not enough we can head out back to the horseshoe pit and afterwards, whatever happens, I'll still buy you the beer and again, you can tell me all about it. Standing offer. Don't be afraid to hold me to it.

It's all words on the internet regardless. I leave my email address available here for a reason. Anyone on this forum is welcome to email me about anything, and if you'd like my phone number simply ask. I'm on a lot of forums but I only offer this on one. Take that how you will.

There's a good bunch of people here. I'm always against censorship, but I'm particularly against it in this case.
 
People disagree, sometimes even angrily. Friends work past the anger, and most often find that what made them angry was not the disagreement, but the manner in which is was disagreed upon. Open discussion is healthy, this one in particular brought to light that there are subjects we may in the future wish to tactfully avoid, or at a minimum approach with calm and caution. Many of us would not have known how much some things were bothering others without folks being forthcoming with their feelings and opinions. Sometimes you gotta rip the scab off and let some air get to the wound before it starts healing right.

My vote, for what it's worth, keep the Cantina as is, warts and all. We'll sometimes stumble and fall, but here you can count on good friends to help you back up.

Sarge
 
Take your fight outside.

We're guests in somebody's House. So don't be busting up the furniture or breaking any glass. Show some manners.

If a political thread gets hot, mods, move it outside this forum to the forum where it belongs. Continue the fight there, if you wish. It's your right, within reason, to speak.

It's always the politics & religion threads that get hot or shut down. :confused:

This all a tempest in a teacup anyways. People are allowed to, and always will, disagree. Munk and some others were having a spirited discussion, when somebody from outside jumped in with some language.

Argue responsibly. Over there. Some of us are trying to watch the game.


Ad Astra
 
munk said:
Just be aware that if political discussions are allowed here, be prepared for what you get. Don't run and "lock" the thread when you decide that "enough is enough". >>>>>>>>>> Semper fi

So that's what that is about. Except you first said it before I locked the thread, didn't you? Apriori agenda. My mailbox is open. Anyone has a problem with me can write.
munk
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True, I said it before you locked it. Because I knew the thread was headed for lock down. And I was right about that.

Look, as for me and to put in my last 2 cents worth, keep political discussions if you want. After all, that is an "all powerful thing" a mod can do, right? But, I also know that in other forums on Bladeforums, political discussions are moved to the Political Arena. HI apparently has a different set of rules. I will simply avoid those HI threads in the future. Otherwise my mouth may get me banned. Banishment, by the way, that is another "all powerful thing" a mod can do. :)
 
I like munk's stories.

I find myself disagreeing with many of his political views.

He is right though - the thread was locked down because people were afraid it would be locked down. That's what you call a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I enjoy the OT threads here.

Politics in here seems (seemed?) to be discussed in a more civil manner, you could actually have a different point of view here without getting flamed. I hope this doesn't change.

Keno
 
WELL, all this talk of how we really want our forum to run has me thinking, and I do have to say that there is one very important change I would like to make, that I think will make the Cantina a much better experience, at least for me:

When Yangdu posts her Best Buys and Deals of the Day, I would like everyone to refrain from sending email on any of the items until I've had a chance to review them and decide if I want any of them. Depending upon the demands of my shrew boss, that could be a couple of hours before I check in, but please, just be patient!

Once I've sent my email to Yangdu then I'll come back to the thread with info as to what I've selected, and everyone can shark it out for whatever is left. 'Kay? Thanks! I knew you guys would understand!

Sigh! I feel a lot better now... ;) :D

Norm
 
Ok, let me start by saying my ADHD wouldn't allow me to read all 3 pages of this thread:rolleyes: ;) , but....

I actually come here for the OT posts more than I do for the Khuk posts. I think that those who are over the line should be reminded that they are over it. I don't blame munk for shutting down a thread with the N-word in it, nor would I blame him if someone told a jew that they approved of the holocaust(sp?). Either one of those words/statements are only said to wound and enrage someone and have no place here IMO.

I think we all need to remember that this is a very rare place in cyberspace, where 99% of the time people are at their best. But MOST importantly, it is a place that ALLOWS us to be our true selves, because it is non-threatening, and it's a safe place to be. Let's not lose that.

Edited to add:
I'm learning as a mod. This is interesting and at times trying stuff. The goal is that time when we understand one another. I wish we could get there now.
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It's a damn hard thankless job too. I for one really appreciate how hard you work at it Munk. I think you keep to the way Bill would have wanted it most of the time--and that's not easy to do. Things worth doing are seldom easy.

Let's all remember that by coming here we end up buyings khuks, and by buying them we are helping alot of people in Nepal. I know that Uncle Bill would want us to remember that, and he would thank us for doing so.
 
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