Disappointed by ZT 560

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brandoak

brandoak

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So I picked up a ZT 560 today and returned it 1 hour later. I didnt inspect the knife, just pointed and got a new one in the box. I get home and look at it in detail …....what a bad design!
You have this big robust blade riding on two tiny ball bearing pivots! The worst part is there are no hardened steel inserts for the bearing to ride on... just hard balls on soft titanium. Now Im sure there are other knives out there that do the same but I call it a design flaw. Dont bearings on titanium need a hardened steel cage or washer to ride on? Some may argue that you shouldn't be putting enough prying energy on the blade to put ball bearing indents into the ti frame or liners but why make a blade so robust and thick if it cant handle abuse? Why not make the handle and pivot just as sturdy as the blade?

I only own two Zts a 566 and a 300 both are great bomb proof knives with no bearings,

I have more of a feeling that manufactures are just giving in to the demands of consumers and what they want...and that's a good thing until it affects the workmanship of the knife...

The consumer wants a super glassy opening knife........put bearings in it!
The consumer wants titanium..................give em titanium..any will do they dont know the difference!
The consumer wants the newest super steel so they can cut open the mail with ….give em Elmax!
 
here's a picture of a 80 dollar Chinese knife..... note the hardened steel washers for the bearings to ride on?
 
I understand your concern, but I think if this was a real issue I would have heard it come up before.

My 0560 developed lock-rock, but never had any issue with the pivot/bearings.
 
Lock rock? what is this if you have time to explain...thanks in advance.
Armadew said:
I understand your concern, but I think if this was a real issue I would have heard it come up before.

My 0560 developed lock-rock, but never had any issue with the pivot/bearings.
Click to expand...
 
brandoak said:
So I picked up a ZT 560 today and returned it 1 hour later. I didnt inspect the knife, just pointed and got a new one in the box. I get home and look at it in detail …....what a bad design!
You have this big robust blade riding on two tiny ball bearing pivots! The worst part is there are no hardened steel inserts for the bearing to ride on... just hard balls on soft titanium. Now Im sure there are other knives out there that do the same but I call it a design flaw. Dont bearings on titanium need a hardened steel cage or washer to ride on? Some may argue that you shouldn't be putting enough prying energy on the blade to put ball bearing indents into the ti frame or liners but why make a blade so robust and thick if it cant handle abuse? Why not make the handle and pivot just as sturdy as the blade?

I only own two Zts a 566 and a 300 both are great bomb proof knives with no bearings,

I have more of a feeling that manufactures are just giving in to the demands of consumers and what they want...and that's a good thing until it affects the workmanship of the knife...

The consumer wants a super glassy opening knife........put bearings in it!
The consumer wants titanium..................give em titanium..any will do they dont know the difference!
The consumer wants the newest super steel so they can cut open the mail with ….give em Elmax!
Click to expand...
I feel you. I had an 0561. That was the last ZT I owned. Traded it away. I have found that in the half dozen ZTs I've tried in my life, there was one thing they all had in common-they were all about looks and materials, and not about performance. I'm not into art knives, so I moved on from ZT. There are some Kershaws however that I like, and have kept.
 
Come to think of it, ZT discontinued some of there knives and reissued them again with steel lock-bar inserts like the ZT 300 series, I bought one without the insert and later one with it. I wonder if this addition was due to consumer want or if they really had a problem with titanium to steel lockup failure and or weaar. If this was the case you would think the knife makers that have ti lockbars without steel inserts would be changing there designs...Hinderer folders for one..carbonized lockbar or not... how long does it take to wear down a ti lockbar?
 
brandoak said:
Come to think of it, ZT discontinued some of there knives and reissued them again with steel lock-bar inserts like the ZT 300 series, I bought one without the insert and later one with it. I wonder if this addition was due to consumer want or if they really had a problem with titanium to steel lockup failure and or weaar. If this was the case you would think the knife makers that have ti lockbars without steel inserts would be changing there designs...Hinderer folders for one..carbonized lockbar or not... how long does it take to wear down a ti lockbar?
Click to expand...

My 0300 was born on Jan 09, the lock bar is about 50% with no slop or play.
 
Until someone shows up with a knife that has a deep groove worn into the handle that causes unfixable blade pay, I couldn't care less.

Much ado about nothing at this point.
 
Scurvy092 said:
Until someone shows up with a knife that has a deep groove worn into the handle that causes unfixable blade pay, I couldn't care less.

Much ado about nothing at this point.
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Excellent point. There's a difference between what might happen theoretically and what has happened empirically. Has anyone ever experienced a problem with their ZT due to the issue brandoak described in his opening post? If so, I haven't heard about it . . . at least not yet. And I'd dare say that the 0560 has been around long enough that if a problem like that were going to develop, we'd have heard about it by now . . .
 
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I had a 560 and 561. Both were good knives, flawless in F&F, perfect detents and frankly, kind of fun to play with....which I think more and more is one of the main attractions of a flipper---fun to sit there and flip it.

While the knife is fine for everyday use among the masses and feels beefy in hand, no way I'm going to depend on it as a hard use knife, especially in the wild. I'm still uncomfortable with a flipper's ability to take severe torque, prying and twisting over time. Some of the very best (and expensive) may, but I have doubts about the ZT. Nothing proven, just my own opinion based on using the knives.

I personally believe the lock insert on this model is pure gimmick---something else to loosen or have screws fall out over time and probably totally unecessary---and are tons of people really going to be ordering another insert from ZT in the next five or ten years due to it wearing out? And will ZT even be around to replace them to serve their purpose in ten or fifteen years....

Finally sold both, purchased another Emerson and pocketed some cash. I don't miss it. Only thing memorable about it was that it was fun to play with when I was bored.
 
I have a 0562 with deep grooves worn into the Ti from the bearings.

Still tight as a drum. Absolutely no play and I really try when testing for any.

It's aerospace grade titanium not play dough.
 
trevitrace said:
Unequivocally, those are hardened steel washers.
Click to expand...

So you're saying the handles on an $80 knife are titanium? ....and need the inserts to protect same? :)

I get your point though. But I never worried about it. I don't own any flippers at the moment anyway.
 
EChoil said:
I'm still uncomfortable with a flipper's ability to take severe torque, prying and twisting over time.
Click to expand...

That's where you and I part company, I suspect. Any time I'm uncomfortable with any aspect of a folder, I'm using the wrong tool. But that's a topic for another conversation. ;)
 
Scurvy092 said:
Until someone shows up with a knife that has a deep groove worn into the handle that causes unfixable blade pay, I couldn't care less.

Much ado about nothing at this point.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm no fan of the 0560 as I think it has poor cutting geometry, but I haven't heard of any issues at all stemming from the bearings against the Ti.
 
Yep. If you guys really want to have something to worry about, worry about the stop pin flying out of an 0770CF because CF may not be strong enough to hold it in place. :eek: FYI, that actually HAS happened.

GO!

PS: For what it's worth, I have no plans to sell my 0770CF in the foreseeable future. ;)
 
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