Disappointed by ZT 560

[bld522]

Here you go.

I have a 0562 with deep grooves worn into the Ti from the bearings.

Still tight as a drum. Absolutely no play and I really try when testing for any.

It's aerospace grade titanium not play dough.

You weren't kidding. It appears that the grooves are wearing very evenly. Perhaps that's why you're not experiencing any blade play or other anomalies . . . at least not yet.

 

[kniferbro]

Pics of grooves.

You weren't kidding. It appears that the grooves are wearing very evenly. Perhaps that's why you're not experiencing any blade play or other anomalies . . . at least not yet.

I don't expect to have any. The grooves wore to that point and have stayed for a while. I really believe that once the races are established, wear rate drops significantly.

 

[bld522]

I think there are several ways to look at this. Yes, steel is harder than titanium and will eventually wear it down. But "eventually" is the operative word. If sufficient tolerance is built into the knife to allow for wear to occur without causing the knife to misbehave, you have a properly engineered knife. If not, sell it and buy a knife that is.

What this argues for is not using your folder as a worry bead by obsessively flicking it open over and over again. That will put more wear on it than any real work you're likely to expose it to. It also argues for rotating it with other folders so you don't concentrate the wear on just one. That's why I'm not concerned about the stop pin loosening up or coming dislodged from my 0770CF. I've got so many folders that my 0770CF is lucky to see pocket time once every month or two on average. There's no way it should develop any kind of problems with that amount of usage. And if it ever does develop a problem, I've got the ZT warranty to back me up.

 

[MEJ]

I think there are several ways to look at this. Yes, steel is harder than titanium and will eventually wear it down. But "eventually" is the operative word. If sufficient tolerance is built into the knife to allow for wear to occur without causing the knife to misbehave, you have a properly engineered knife. If not, sell it and buy a knife that is.

What this argues for is not using your folder as a worry bead by obsessively flicking it open over and over again. It also argues for rotating it with other folders so you don't concentrate the wear on just one. That's why I don't worry about the stop pin loosening up or coming dislodged from my 0770CF. I've got so many folders that my 0770CF is lucky to see pocket time once every month or two on average. No way it should develop any kind of problems with that amount of usage.

It seems to me that this is not any kind of an improvement to folding knives in general. If a knife cant be relied upon as your only knife for an extended period of time its hardly a practical tool. Traditional s could last someone their lifetime but this fancy new technology has to be used sparingly? I dont know about the whole hard use thing but i feel as if carrying/using the knife everyday wouldnt be pushing the envelope.

 

[bld522]

Yes, that's a good point. But then the knife I would rely on as my only knife for an extended period of time wouldn't fold. And I'd be its only moving part.

 

[brandoak]

Ouch! theirs noway that thing is smooth flipping anymore, this is exactly what I was talking about and noway would I be happy with that on my knife.

You weren't kidding. It appears that the grooves are wearing very evenly. Perhaps that's why you're not experiencing any blade play or other anomalies . . . at least not yet.

 

[Sunyata]

I think there are several ways to look at this. Yes, steel is harder than titanium and will eventually wear it down. But "eventually" is the operative word. If sufficient tolerance is built into the knife to allow for wear to occur without causing the knife to misbehave, you have a properly engineered knife. If not, sell it and buy a knife that is.

What this argues for is not using your folder as a worry bead by obsessively flicking it open over and over again. That will put more wear on it than any real work you're likely to expose it to. It also argues for rotating it with other folders so you don't concentrate the wear on just one. That's why I'm not concerned about the stop pin loosening up or coming dislodged from my 0770CF. I've got so many folders that my 0770CF is lucky to see pocket time once every month or two on average. There's no way it should develop any kind of problems with that amount of usage. And if it ever does develop a problem, I've got the ZT warranty to back me up.

The last statement is why I don't worry.

If a problem develops in my Ti framed ZT's I know KAI/ZT will make it right. So far no issues noted.

 

[kniferbro]

Ouch! theirs noway that thing is smooth flipping anymore, this is exactly what I was talking about and noway would I be happy with that on my knife.

Smooth as glass actually.

You're over thinking this one.

 

[craytab]

Ouch! theirs noway that thing is smooth flipping anymore, this is exactly what I was talking about and noway would I be happy with that on my knife.

And what would make you think that?

Because.....

Smooth as glass actually.

You're over thinking this one.

Seems like the OP is doing a lot of arm chair knife experting.

 

[bflying]

I have one of the 561's without the lock insert, but have never had any lock stick. The only problem I had was too light of a detent. And while I'm a little disapointed the factory didn't take care of it for me, I ended up doing it myself and now it's pretty perfect. But since it was only my second ZT (out of over a dozen now), I worked it and flipped it a LOT! Probably multiple thousands by now, but no skate grove yet.

One thing that I noticed is that because of the bearings, if clean with light lube, there was quite a range of pivot tension I could apply and still get acceptable action. So I aimed for the lightest screw tension that would still give a solid blade and action, not knowing how a cranked pivot would affect the life of either the bearings, housing, and/or skate area. I would think that someone that does not like a light, free floating blade, may tighten up and eventually wear groves. But the pics above are the first I've ever seen.

 

[ursamajor]

I think there are several ways to look at this. Yes, steel is harder than titanium and will eventually wear it down. But "eventually" is the operative word. If sufficient tolerance is built into the knife to allow for wear to occur without causing the knife to misbehave, you have a properly engineered knife. If not, sell it and buy a knife that is.

What this argues for is not using your folder as a worry bead by obsessively flicking it open over and over again. That will put more wear on it than any real work you're likely to expose it to. It also argues for rotating it with other folders so you don't concentrate the wear on just one. That's why I'm not concerned about the stop pin loosening up or coming dislodged from my 0770CF. I've got so many folders that my 0770CF is lucky to see pocket time once every month or two on average. There's no way it should develop any kind of problems with that amount of usage. And if it ever does develop a problem, I've got the ZT warranty to back me up.

You realize, that we are the exception, and not the norm. Most guys who own pocket knives, own 1 or 2. For the price tag of a ZT, someone is expecting an heirloom piece, as in a knife they can hand down to a child or grandchild. We are peculiar in that most of us on this board own countless dozens of knives. Hell, some of us own so many knives, that we could use a new one every day, and not use the same knife twice for a few years. Again, not the norm.

 

[ebidis]

I personally think ball bearing pivots are a silly marketing gimmick but I've never had any trouble with the ZTs I've owned that have them. As for the lock inserts I always thought that ZT "upgraded" to steel lock bar inserts because of the lock stick problems on some of the earlier models like the gen1 550.

I have seen this statement a lot; aimed at bearings as well as flippers. I'm not seeing the "gimmick". Flippers are a perfectly viable and dependable means of one handed deployment, and ball bearing pivots (IMHO) have proven themselves to work reliably, and solidly.

I see ball bearing pivots as one of the more important and innovative advancements in the knife industry in decades, and people buy them because they like them and they work. People vote with there wallets, so if they were just "gimmicks" then consumers would have grown bored with them, and they would not have lasted.

If innovation, and giving consumers what they want are "gimmicks", then I am all for it. YMMV.

 

[bld522]

You realize, that we are the exception, and not the norm. Most guys who own pocket knives, own 1 or 2. For the price tag of a ZT, someone is expecting an heirloom piece, as in a knife they can hand down to a child or grandchild. We are peculiar in that most of us on this board own countless dozens of knives. Hell, some of us own so many knives, that we could use a new one every day, and not use the same knife twice for a few years. Again, not the norm.

Yes, I get your point. And if you are going to restrict yourself to owning just one or two pocket knives, it certainly argues for buying a well-engineered knife at the outset . . . particularly if you're planning to pass it down as an heirloom piece. Looking at the broad landscape of production knives, I'd feel pretty comfortable recommending a ZT knife as a candidate. YMMV.

 

[MEJ]

Smooth as glass actually.

You're over thinking this one.

Im really curious to see if really does wear in more. How long have u had the knife? Is it your main edc or do you rotate?

Dont mean to pester you but im just curious..

 

[kniferbro]

Im really curious to see if really does wear in more. How long have u had the knife? Is it your main edc or do you rotate?

Dont mean to pester you but im just curious..

I don't mind at all.

I am the kind of guy that likes to have one trusty companion knife that I carry everyday and for the foreseeable future. Obviously I am a knife nut and the next "perfect" knife comes around often enough and I switch over. I am not one to have a rotation that I go through the week. I've had the knife since they came out, so about a year.

I like my pivots tight. Probably tighter than most. I hate blade play.

This particular knife was dubbed my "KVT T&E" knife. I've pried wood and done hard twisting cuts. Smacked her around good. She's still going strong!

 

[fsatsil]

I have seen this statement a lot; aimed at bearings as well as flippers. I'm not seeing the "gimmick". Flippers are a perfectly viable and dependable means of one handed deployment, and ball bearing pivots (IMHO) have proven themselves to work reliably, and solidly.

I see ball bearing pivots as one of the more important and innovative advancements in the knife industry in decades, and people buy them because they like them and they work. People vote with there wallets, so if they were just "gimmicks" then consumers would have grown bored with them, and they would not have lasted.

If innovation, and giving consumers what they want are "gimmicks", then I am all for it. YMMV.

I have no problem with flippers I just don't see how ball bearings do anything to improve the performance of a knife? They may have proven to work reliably and solidly but so do regular bronze bushings and they are stronger and cost less money.

 

[bld522]

I've got folders that ride on phosphor bronze washers that flip as well and open as smoothly as my folders with ball bearing pivots. As far as I'm concerned, it's mostly a matter of personal preference.

 

[ebidis]

I have no problem with flippers I just don't see how ball bearings do anything to improve the performance of a knife? They may have proven to work reliably and solidly but so do regular bronze bushings and they are stronger and cost less money.

I've got folders that ride on phosphor bronze washers that flip as well and open as smoothly as my folders with ball bearing pivots. As far as I'm concerned, it's mostly a matter of personal preference.

Agreed, however I don't think bearings are necessarily more expensive. Neither ball bearings or washers will seal or kill a deal for me, I can live with either if they are well executed. I just see ball bearings as another choice, adding to the variety that I have to choose from.

 

[brandoak]

Yes and what point does it wear in past the bearings and ride just on the race? Is this why its smooth? Is your blade now riding on the blue nylon bearing race as its pivot?

Im really curious to see if really does wear in more. How long have u had the knife? Is it your main edc or do you rotate?

Dont mean to pester you but im just curious..

 

[brandoak]

And I didn't mean to get anyone's panties all bunched up over this, it was just food for thought, You can easily fit a folded over twice dollar bill between the blade and liners because the recesses were not cut deep enough to house the bearings. Just not the fit and finish I like on a knife.
Until they start sealing the bearings from dirt /dust like they have done on every other bearing related field, I consider this bearing craze in its infancy stage.
Kniferbro uses a knifes like I do, and It proves just what I was talking about. I really appreciate your time in the picture posting and comments and that goes for everybody as well.

If you have a closet full of glass slippers and rotate them everyday, your not going to expose there obvious flaws as fast as you would by wearing the same pair everyday.