disappointed in my new navigator

Joined
Jul 17, 2002
Messages
650
upon many suggestions, i bought a navigator from SMKW for $30 to fill the need for a sub 2.5" folder. while i still regard the knife as a good value, i am disappointed in several minor things about the knife. each, alone, is very minor but together they leave me less than impressed with spyderco when compared to my many benchmades. this being my first spyderco and after hearing everyone rave about them, i must admit im let down.

1. design. not something to gripe about b/c i knew i what i was getting, but the knife is the largest 2" folder ive ever seen. sturdy but IMO larger than i has to be. now dont jump on me too bad, i know a lot of this is b/c of the thumbhole instead of a stud and im not making a big issue out of it.

2. stiff lock. much more so than the axis or liner locks (which are adjustable) on my benchmades or on my other lockbacks. stiff.

the real complaints.

3. fit and finish. the knife has more sharp edges than i can count (no pun intended - excluding the blade of course). each hole cut in the handle for skeletonizing is rough. they arent so sharp that i cut myself but make the knife uncomfortable to remove from a pocket. also, the point on the rear of the blade right above the thumbhole is very uncomfortable in the open position and against my body when carried IWB. the attention to detail i find in my benchmades is IMO lacking on this knife. i cant imagine that it wasnt designed to have more rounded edges.

4. the blade appears to be ground improperly, if only slightly. the side with writing is fine but the reverse appears to be burned at both the tip and rear of the blade. since i have not cut anything with it im sure it came this way. also, in the burned spots the grind is visibly off. it looks like the grinder either tapered off too soon or tried to touch up the ends. either way, it is not ground correctly.

while the above are not big deals in themselves, as a whole they make the knife a hard sell to replace my BM 771 or even my Zippo 1.5" lockback. ill keep the knife but i doubt it will get used much unless i take the time to carefully round the edges and reprofile the blade. not a great first experience.

how does your navigator compare with this one?
 
My SMKW Navigator has never been one of my favorite Spydercos, but for me it's still a great knife for $30. The blade action on my Nav was stiff out of the box and I put some lube on it and worked the blade back and forth to loosen it up. The lock is also stiff, but I don't mind that, it gives me confidence. I don't mind the sharp edges of the cutouts, because I rarely brush my hand against them the wrong way. But the point above the opening hole was way too sharp and I rounded it off a bit on a medium and fine stone. I find it attractive and it holds well when open. It's not as easy for me to open as other Spydercos, however. The VG-10 steel is great. Fortunately, the grind on mine was good; sorry to hear about your uneven grind.

Overall, I like the Mouse better. But it's more expensive than the Navigator, and not as elegant looking. You can get one on Ebay right now for $50, which is an excellent deal.

There are several "classic" mid-size Spydercos that are really worth checking out even if you're not happy with the Navigator. My EDC is the Native lightweight. It's a 3" blade, definitely larger than the Navigator, and it has to fit your hand. But if it's a good fit for you, there's nothing better for the price. I would wait until it's released in S30V steel, which should be soon. The Delica is another great mid-size design. If you need to stay under 2.5", the Calypso Jr. is excellent in plain edge, if you can find one (it's discontinued). Again, not as elegant as the Navigator or even the Mouse, because it's black plastic. But it performs beautifully. I don't recommend buying the close-out model in serrated edge; in my experience it does not perform nearly as well.

Johnny
 
I bought my Spyderco Navigator from SMKW and I have nothing but good to say about my Navigator. The lockback will be stiffer than an Axis lock, that is just the nature of the design. I agree about it being larger than a 2in. bladed knife would first seem, but that allows it to fill my hand. I can't say I have had any problems with the slots in the handle. I'm sorry you aren't happy with your Navigator. E-mail sent.
 
Originally posted by JohnnyLightOn
I don't mind the sharp edges of the cutouts, because I rarely brush my hand against them the wrong way. But the point above the opening hole was way too sharp and I rounded it off a bit on a medium and fine stone. Johnny

I too had to take the sharp edge off the point above the hole with a fine DMT hone. It would get me everytime I would have to reach in my pocket to get my keys out.
I took some edges off of the handle too.

Other then that I'm really happy with it.

Have you seen how the shape of the blade is above the hole on the "Pride"?
Nice and smooth. I really like the shape of it above the hole.
 
That's unfortunate that you don't like your knife. It's always a disappointment to anticipate something, then not have it meet your expectations.

Personally, I love my Navigators. Mine are the earlier models, with a G10 handle. Here are my thoughts:

1. I think that the larger overall size was intentional. The idea was to limit blade length, for maximum legality, but leave the overall feel of a larger knife. Just my guess based on design trends from the last few years.

2. I've owned lockbacks forever and don't mind the stiffness compared to other locks at all. To each their own.

3. Mine doesn't have the problems that you mentioned. The scales are solid G10 rather than the slotted aluminum. The thumbramp feels fine to me. I carry it in the waistband of my sweats at home a lot, no problems.

4. The grind on mine was not perfect either. It was about on par with other knives in this category and price range. No complaints.

You might try the steel-handled Dragonfly II or micarta Jester as an alternative. Good luck.
 
Lockbacks will always be stiff compared to the Axis lock and the like. They'll loosen after use.
I don't know about fit an finish, cause I'm not in a position to say whether it was bad, but the only time that I've heard of multiple people saying bad finishes are the BRK Native that are contracted to Camillus to be made.
 
I have bought 2 from them and they were perfect.I can see how it would be uncomfortable to carry IWB because of the hump.I am about to buy another from them in a couple of weeks,one good thing about being able to go to the showroom is that I can inspect the one I will buy.Last time I was there I looked at the Wegners for 59.95 and 3 of the 5 that they had the liners were shot the 4th was barely acceptable and the one I got was the only good one.
 
I for one,am in love with the Navigator. I got my first one, a G-10 model about 3 years ago. It didn't see much use for a few months, I couldn't get used to something so small. But then I rounded the edges on the handle and put some Outers Gunslick on the blade tang. It really smoothed up with some time and I carried it daily for over 2 years. Even when I had other knives at hand, I found myself reaching for the Navigator. Then when SMKW had the Almite Navigator at such a good price, I had to "upgrade". It's not as smooth as my G-10, but it shouldn't take long. And the VG-10 steel is a real beauty. I sing praises to it. And though it is "large", it's not too scary. As a college student, that's important to me. I also carry IWB and never have been bothered by it. It stays on me during workouts, runs and bike trips as well.

I'm a fan, especially at $30.
 
thanks for the suggestions. i had considered implementing them myself but wasnt sure it was worth the time and effort.
i agree that the knife is still a good value, as i said in my first post. $30 for VG10 and aluminum handles is a good deal. and i like the knife, just not as much as i had hoped.

how receptive to polishing is the anodized aluminum? will it be obvious that ive very carefully smoothed the edges? any suggestions as to what to use? if i had a sharmaker i could fit an edge of the fine grit down into the slots but since i dont ill have to find something closer to a small round file.
 
Hi Notos&w. I'm sorry for your disappointment. We thought it was a pretty good knife. I would really be interested in how you would compare it with a $30 2" blade Benchmade maded with what steel?

sal
 
As I recall, the cheaper Benchmades are made with ATS-34 blades ;)
 
Originally posted by Sal Glesser
Hi Notos&w. I'm sorry for your disappointment. We thought it was a pretty good knife. I would really be interested in how you would compare it with a $30 2" blade Benchmade maded with what steel?

sal

thanks for chiming in sal. always nice to know you are being heard by higher ups.

point taken. as ive said three times, it is a good value. vg10 and metal handles for 30 bucks is fantastic. i bought this knife b/c i needed a 2" knife w/ pocket clip for a decent price and BM did not have anything that met those requirements as well as this knife.

but i might point out that this knife has a MSRP of $85 and a street cost of ~$60 at most places ( http://www.1sks.com/store/spyderco-almite-navigator.html ). in that price range the BM 330 and 335 in 154CM are rough equivalents. i expect the fit and finish on those knives to be better than this one.

my gripe is not about what i got for my money, but rather what i expected and did not receive.
maybe i got a lemon. maybe this knife is not indicative of what spydercos really are. maybe im just being too hard on the knife and expected too much. the fact remains ill still let down. that doesnt mean i dont like the knife or wont use it - just that its not all that i thought it would be.
heck, maybe ill change my mind if VG10 turns out to be vastly superior 154CM.

please, lets not let this turn into a flame war of BM against spyderco. i brought my BM's up b/c that is my frame of reference and standard of comparison.

thanks to all that have replied.
 
Hi notos&w. no flame intended, BM makes good products. I was just teasing. I was thinking that comparisons should be apples & apples.

The Nav is a solid little lockback, over 250 inch/lbs lock strength, crisp grinds, no tumbling, VG-10, etc. BM really doesn't make anything quite like it, which I knew. If they did, I believe the cost would surprize you. In general, a well made lockback cost more to build than a linerlock. closer tolerances and more parts.

Linerlocks get more difficult and more expensive when you include such niceties as; nested liners and eccentric pivots.


sal
 
So Sal, what about all the sharp edges?

I like my Navigator a lot, but have the same complaint. The thing can get downright uncomfortable to handle!
 
Maybe all those edges are meant to rough up your hands to make them more manly! Would a cowboy or lumberjack even feel those rough edges? One of the many subtle benefits of owning a Spyderco. ;)

Seriously, I seem to have lost my new Navigator just when I had smoothed the sharp hump over the hole and was starting to carry it more. All this thread is doing is making me feel worse!

Notos, I would see if you could smooth the sharp parts some (the hump is the biggest offender; you might get used to the rest), and then if you can't get the blade grind to be even enough for your satisfaction, drop it in the mail to Spyderco in the cheapest method possible and they will regrind it for you and send it back. I can't imagine they would charge you for the regrind and return postage, as the grind was uneven from the factory (you could always call or e-mail to confirm). Their customer service is excellent.

Johnny
 
Notos. We'd be happy to sort out any of the problems that you have with regards to the grind. The "sharp" edges on the blade hump and handle tips are something that you would have to do yourself, if you really wanted to smooth them over, perhaps a fine emory on the handle. Maybe a dremel on the "hump tip"?

As far Edge-u-cation goes; I have learned that many makers in Japan consider sharp edges a sign of quality as they make a knife look better. Kind of like serriphs in lettering. It is far more difficult to polish or buff and NOT lose the sharp edges. I will agree that they look better, although personally I can't say that I like them for function. However, the Nav model as it was is no longer in production, so there is little that can be done. We have produced G-10 versions and Almite versions of the Navigator and the Pride and Meerkat models are essentially the same pattern. We are currently looking at other possible variations of the Navigator (in the lockback format). Perhaps Carbon Fiber or ?

I will say that I will pay attention to the sharp edge complaint on any future variations and I thank you for the heads up.

sal
 
I've also found sharp-edges on the stainless scales of some of my Spydies (including the inner-edges that "bite" when you hold the open knife tightly), but a little time with my Dremmel and some wet/dry sandpaper smoothed it out nicely.
 
I'll have a lookout on my Navigator when it eventually arrives.
 
took a small fine grit Lansky "dog bone" sharpener to the handle and made a lot of progress in rounding those sharp edges. the knife is a lot more comfortable to use but the finish is shot and the thing looks 2 yrs old. oh well, it was supposed to be a user anyway.

will take some serious grinding to fix the hump over the thumbhole. more than i care to do at the moment.

im happier w/ the knife and delighted at the value - all this for 30 bucks and 30 minutes sanding time. hate that the knife wasn't "all that" but ill live.

sal, thanks for your wise counsel. the fact that you are on this forum listening to customers means so much that ill probably buy another spydie when i otherwise would not have. your presence breeds a lot of goodwill. thanks.
 
Thanx notos. IMO, the customer (ELU) is the most important of the business equation and should be treated as such.

sal
 
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