Disappointed in recent Benchmade QC

Very different knife companies how ?
- Number of designs. I believe CRK is currently producing 5 different folding knife designs, and they've been producing+modifying/refining their mainstay (Sebenza obviously) for 27 years. Benchmade introduces new designs on a yearly basis, and produces a greater number of distinct designs.
- CRK are in a higher price bracket than Benchmade (except BM's Gold line.)
- CRK are manufactured to tighter tolerances than Benchmade.
- CRK is a smaller company than Benchmade.
- CRK knives are 'hand-finished' and AFAIK their quality control is administered on a knife-by-knife basis. I'm *guessing Benchmade's quality control is more of a "spot check" sort of method.

That's all I can think of now; (plus I'm no expert so if anyone more knowledgeable wants to chime in, please do so.)
 
- Number of designs. I believe CRK is currently producing 5 different folding knife designs, and they've been producing+modifying/refining their mainstay (Sebenza obviously) for 27 years. Benchmade introduces new designs on a yearly basis, and produces a greater number of distinct designs.
- CRK are in a higher price bracket than Benchmade (except BM's Gold line.)
- CRK are manufactured to tighter tolerances than Benchmade.
- CRK is a smaller company than Benchmade.
- CRK knives are 'hand-finished' and AFAIK their quality control is administered on a knife-by-knife basis. I'm *guessing Benchmade's quality control is more of a "spot check" sort of method.

That's all I can think of now; (plus I'm no expert so if anyone more knowledgeable wants to chime in, please do so.)
No matter how BM does QC they can still do a good job. Six sigma is based on statistical process analysis and it allows for a 99.9997% success rate. Whatever BM is currently doing produced at best a .5% failure rate just based on the reports out of the first run of 750 940-1s. Also, the new 940-1 is around $300 based on MSRP, while the small Sebenza is $350. That's hardly a huge difference. If BM wants to operate at this price point, they need to bring some QC that's in line with their pricing structure.
 
No matter how BM does QC they can still do a good job. Six sigma is based on statistical process analysis and it allows for a 99.9997% success rate. Whatever BM is currently doing produced at best a .5% failure rate just based on the reports out of the first run of 750 940-1s. Also, the new 940-1 is around $300 based on MSRP, while the small Sebenza is $350. That's hardly a huge difference. If BM wants to operate at this price point, they need to bring some QC that's in line with their pricing structure.

Could you please provide examples of companies with 99.9997% out the door quality and what their price structure and volume is?

I understand that one-half of one percent (.5%) leaves room for improvement but that is a goal most companies only dream of, especially small, local manufacturing companies.
 
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Could you please provide examples of companies with 99.9997% out the door quality and what their price structure and volume is?

I understand that one-half of one percent (.5%) leaves room for improvement but that is a goal most companies only dream of, especially small, local manufacturing companies.

Take if for what it's worth, but these companies all claim to have implemented quality to the six sigma level:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Six_Sigma_companies

In any case, I don't think you need to compare Benchmade to companies with state of the art QC groups to see that there's a problem in Oregon. All my knives have been more or less OK (I don't require perfectly centered blades and perfect grinds, which is good because BM hasn't delivered that), but some knives are coming out looking terrible.
 
I only own three Benchmades - Rant, 300SN and Adamas - and the latter two were bought used here on the forum. No quality issues on any of mine, and the two used knives could have passed for brand new, although definitely priced lower than new. That being said, had they been bought brand new, I would expect perfection or near perfection. I would expect the same from a brand new knife at half the price, but especially for a USA-made Benchmade selling for more than its competition because of the Benchmade USA logo. If someone paid half as much for a knife made of the same materials by a different company at a factory in China or Taiwan, the response from the Benchmade and/or "Buy American" crowd would be that you expect lesser quality (or at least lesser QC) from an import. What should actually happen is that a USA-made Benchmade should carry with it a guarantee of superior quality. Yes, a "dud" can slip through, but considering that the issues reported on a single forum represent only a small fraction of the total Benchmade owner base, it's a cause for concern even if the only flawed knives were the ones being reported here.

I returned a $20 CRKT to a local retailer last week because of poor centering and poorer lockup, plus a crooked thumb stud, and exchanged it for another knife of the same model with none of those issues. Even at $20, I was pissed about it, and the store immediately exchanged it, making sure that the replacement knife didn't have any issues. Being an inexpensive Chinese knife doesn't excuse the multiple issues, but my expectations were lower at $20 than they would be at $120. At no point should a reputable American manufacturer treat QC as an afterthought, and I can't imagine that it would take that much time for someone to check basic function, fit and finish on each knife before it's boxed up.
 
Take if for what it's worth, but these companies all claim to have implemented quality to the six sigma level:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Six_Sigma_companies

In any case, I don't think you need to compare Benchmade to companies with state of the art QC groups to see that there's a problem in Oregon. All my knives have been more or less OK (I don't require perfectly centered blades and perfect grinds, which is good because BM hasn't delivered that), but some knives are coming out looking terrible.

If you don't think we need to compare Benchmade with state of the art QC programs, then why did you compare them?

Not trying to defend Benchmade here, but other than off center blades and less than perfect grinds, what the heck are you talking about terrible looking?
I have heard of no lock failure, broken blades , or busted scales, so where are all these terrible looking knives?

I understand and agree that one half of one percent leaves room for improvement, but again, if a company is 99.5% perfect, is it really worth the time and resources to get that extra .4997%? How much more are you willing to pay for a knife?
 
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How on earth did you calculate Benchmade QC is at 99.5%?? I doubt its anywhere near that
 
No matter how BM does QC they can still do a good job. Six sigma is based on statistical process analysis and it allows for a 99.9997% success rate. Whatever BM is currently doing produced at best a .5% failure rate just based on the reports out of the first run of 750 940-1s. Also, the new 940-1 is around $300 based on MSRP, while the small Sebenza is $350. That's hardly a huge difference. If BM wants to operate at this price point, they need to bring some QC that's in line with their pricing structure.

How on earth did you calculate Benchmade QC is at 99.5%?? I doubt its anywhere near that

I just took what the comment was regarding the at best .5% failure rate and assumed that 99.5% success would be implied.

Just curious, if you doubt that Benchmade puts out quality products 99.5% of the time do you have any actual figures? Any information beyond speculation would certainly help people make more informed decisions.
 
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I only own three Benchmades....and I can't imagine that it would take that much time for someone to check basic function, fit and finish on each knife before it's boxed up.

I used to work for a job shop and one customer in particular bought parts in volume and demanded that each part be 100% inspected prior to shipping.

Not only did they have to be dimensionally accurate but also clean, free from burrs, and function properly. We charged this customer 500% more than normal.

Again I want to ask, how much more are people willing to pay? For me personally I guess the answer would be two to three times as much because that is how much more I paid for each of my CRK's, and I did demand 100% quality out of those.
 
I was just curious what data and numbers were used to calculate that figure of .5% failure rate. Just by looking at the comments in 940-1 thread of those who said theirs had an issue versus those who said theirs was perfect its already much higher than that.

I don't have any solid data nor would anyone unless you set up some sort of unbiased survey. From my own experience I would say their QC has been at about 50% for me...every other knife has had QC issues. Now I request to have them hand picked and leave the lemons for someone else lol. It's worked so far for the last couple I've ordered *keeps fingers crossed*
 
I was just curious what data and numbers were used to calculate that figure of .5% failure rate. Just by looking at the comments in 940-1 thread of those who said theirs had an issue versus those who said theirs was perfect its already much higher than that.

I don't have any solid data nor would anyone unless you set up some sort of unbiased survey. From my own experience I would say their QC has been at about 50% for me...every other knife has had QC issues. Now I request to have them hand picked and leave the lemons for someone else lol. It's worked so far for the last couple I've ordered *keeps fingers crossed*

Believe me brother, I have been doing the same thing regarding online purchasing, and not just Benchmade either. And it certainly turns the odds more in your favor.
I have only been disappointed one time by doing that, but a quick call to the fine people at KnifeWorks resolved the issue.
 
Despite I'm sure an impression to the contrary, I'm not really trying to defend Benchmade here but in all fairness I don't think one can claim there is a "Problem in Oregon" that is exclusive to BM, without saying the same of all the other production knife companies too.

Spend some time in the Spyderco sub forum or the Kai sub forum archives, or EKI or just follow some of the posts in General and you will see quite a few reports of QC issues with these companies too. Thing's far more troubling than off center blades I might add.

My point being that with any production knife you are going to have imperfections. This is true regardless of the company and the nature of production knives.

Give me a Lupe, flashlight, and a magnifying glass and I will find flaws,imperfections or "issues" with any production knife. Like I said it's the nature of production knives.

I've been buying / collecting BM knives since the mid 90's and think them great knives overall but agree they can do better but So can everyone else. I guess that's my main point here.

I'm not happy about the whole MAPP thing either and agree if they are going to charge more then it's only natural to expect more and why I haven't purchased a new BM knife since the increase. However, I'm not going to all of a sudden start calling them sub par either and conclude their QC has gone completely to pot.
 
That's unfortunate to hear! I bought a Benchmade Mini Infidel from a friend that was used and the Blade pretty scratched up. Two Friday's ago, I sent it in to them because it wasn't deploying. The following Thurs. I get a call from my dealer saying it was back! That was only 3 business days including shipping! I open the box and much to my amazement, they replaced the knife!!! I got a BNIB blade, box, everything! Not bad for buying a user knife and ending up with a new one! Now I can't decide if I wanna use it or sell it lol! It's too nice looking!!
 
That's unfortunate to hear! I bought a Benchmade Mini Infidel from a friend that was used and the Blade pretty scratched up. Two Friday's ago, I sent it in to them because it wasn't deploying. The following Thurs. I get a call from my dealer saying it was back! That was only 3 business days including shipping! I open the box and much to my amazement, they replaced the knife!!! I got a BNIB blade, box, everything! Not bad for buying a user knife and ending up with a new one! Now I can't decide if I wanna use it or sell it lol! It's too nice looking!!

That's pretty impressive. Perhaps they are reacting to some extent to the small but outspoken criticism.
 
I've only bought three Benchmades. Have two. They were all near perfect out of the box. Only thing wrong was not so great sharpness out of box but that's not a huge deal to me although would expect a razor edge out of box for the price. Only knives I've ever sent back to somebody that were brand new were Spyderco Endura and CRKT Hammond Cruiser. They came sharp but what i would call very poor quility. There sure is alot of these threads about poor quality service from Benchmade. Really does make me wonder cause don't see any other companies mentioned about poor QS and they gotta be out there. Not getting in touch with you the day you call is what i would call bad QS. Never had to wait more than 45 minutes for an QS from a company.
 
That's unfortunate to hear! I bought a Benchmade Mini Infidel from a friend that was used and the Blade pretty scratched up. Two Friday's ago, I sent it in to them because it wasn't deploying. The following Thurs. I get a call from my dealer saying it was back! That was only 3 business days including shipping! I open the box and much to my amazement, they replaced the knife!!! I got a BNIB blade, box, everything! Not bad for buying a user knife and ending up with a new one! Now I can't decide if I wanna use it or sell it lol! It's too nice looking!!

Wow, outstanding!
The only knives I've ever needed to send back are my old school collectables that have been out of production for years so no new knife for me, but they did go the extra mile to replace the pocket clip, screws, scales, and whatever else to return them as close as possible to their former glory.

All. Completely. Free. Of. Charge.
Not even return shipping.
And folks wonder why I'm a fan of this company.
 
Wow, outstanding!
The only knives I've ever needed to send back are my old school collectables that have been out of production for years so no new knife for me, but they did go the extra mile to replace the pocket clip, screws, scales, and whatever else to return them as close as possible to their former glory.

All. Completely. Free. Of. Charge.
Not even return shipping.
And folks wonder why I'm a fan of this company.

I know I was very surprised myself. I've only had one other experience with them and it was when I requested a new pocket clip for my mini barrage(for god sakes Benchmade, change the coating on the black pocket clips! Lol) and received 3 emails in two days stating how they would send me a new one and that it had been shipped. I was thinking, "all that for a pocket clip!?" But, I was glad they seemed to try and help me out and made sure I was "satisfied". I don't work there or think they make the worlds best blade but, just thought I'd share my two experiences with them which were superb!
 
I know I was very surprised myself. I've only had one other experience with them and it was when I requested a new pocket clip for my mini barrage(for god sakes Benchmade, change the coating on the black pocket clips! Lol) and received 3 emails in two days stating how they would send me a new one and that it had been shipped. I was thinking, "all that for a pocket clip!?" But, I was glad they seemed to try and help me out and made sure I was "satisfied". I don't work there or think they make the worlds best blade but, just thought I'd share my two experiences with them which were superb!

Just a suggestion, if you need clips in the future, ask for black oxide instead of painted. Way better.


Another idea is to use a scotch-brite pad and a die grinder to remove the paint.
I actually prefer this as it leaves the paint in the engraved lettering and makes a very nice contrast.


Back on topic, both of these knives are perfectly centered and extremely sharp with even grinds.
 
So in the eyes of BM , the $510 710-141 gold class is of equal quality to that of a Sebenza or Umnumzaan ?

Both of which are less expensive btw.
 
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