kreole
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Not here to argue it's worth its cost, but that's not apple-to-apple since the Seb and Um aren't LEs
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Disappointed in recent Benchmade QC
- Thread starter jmclfrsh
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Not here to argue it's worth its cost, but that's not apple-to-apple since the Seb and Um aren't LEs
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Me neither. I'm asking a legit question. Never has a gold class. Thinking maybe there on the same level as CRK (?)
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I too have had an issue with the qc at benchmade. Had a brand new Shoki, blade was off center .....I mean bad the blade was touching the side of the handle. Sent it back as to not void the warranty for repair. Came back 4 weeks later, still looked slightly off center, but thought it looked better, flipped it twice and it went right back to where it was....now what? I guess I will send it back again. To their defense I bought another knife that day and it was also off center...not a good track record here for my luck, but they fixed it perfectly.
For what it's worth, I have 2 LNIB gold class knives: the 551-101 and the 940-121. There are deficiencies in the fit and finish of each which put them below CRK. The cf/M4 Grip, which does feel exceptionally ergonomic (and looks purdy), is essentially perfect... except for the edge, which is poor. The ti-cf/M4 940-121 has a fine edge, but if you look very close the handle is visible uneven (not perfectly symmetrical.) I paid roughly $260 for the Griptilian and $320 for the 940-121.
kreole
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Oh, then, well, I only have a couple gold class, but they're very evidently equivalent to any other Benchmade in fit and finish. The bump in price isn't due to increased qc/fit/finish, based on my couple.
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Interesting. I guess the fact the most (if not all gold class) are limited in production so that is a factor in the high price.
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Both of my 16/17 out of 300 2012 Forum knives were flawed. My same year 746-1201 was flawed. My limited 16/30 530 from KnifeWorks was flawed. The asking price on these was high and all were fixed under warranty, but they shouldn't have left the barn before getting checked for QC issues. I really hope this gets resolved. My buying has drawn to a standstill partly out of frustration and impatience. Oddly enough, it's my Limited's with the problems unlike the couple of regular productions I bought in 2013 which were fine.
I think in this sense that quality is on a few different levels. I don't think in most cases that the 710 Gold Class is a knife that will be used like a production 710, or a M4 710, or an Umnumzaan. The base Sebenza or Umnumzaan is in a sense closer in intended design to the production 710 in that it is a plain knife built for the purpose of usage, and it fulfills that purpose exceptionally well in its respective class.
In terms of fit and finish and manufacturing tolerances, I don't think any production maker is producing folders with the tolerances of CRK. Will Gold Class knives exceed CRK here? No. I don't think anyone is, and that in part is why a new Seb can range from $350-3,500+ depending on the options.
But the 710 Gold Class does have features that puts it in a price range of the Sebenza (a Sebenza with these features could be significantly higher) as well as the price range of high-end semi-prod knives like the Zero Tol 0777M390. So there are some places in which comparisons can be made. To me, when a knife is being sold around the ballpark price of a Sebenza, that knife needs QC/QA that is exceptional and is the finest a company can possibly do. I don't expect anyone to have Chris Reeve fit and finish other than Chris Reeve, but I still have high expectations. Additionally, I know what Benchmade is capable of, which is a knife of extremely tight tolerances, exceptional fit and finish, and longevity in which the knife does not progressively drift out of spec.
The recent trend of people finding new knives to have some tolerance issues does not accurately represent Benchmade's capability. Obviously any production part can have a few here and there that do not meet spec, but it is critical that those items not go out the door before they are retuned or brought up to spec. Standard production folders having some tolerance issues that are not hindering performance is fine; but flagship models priced multiple times that of the base should not have any of these issues at all, IMO.
That's my take. While BM's customer service is great, they should not be allowing new knives to have these issues by detecting them and bringing them within spec before they leave the factory. A consumer having to deal with this issue on a brand new knife is bound to get frustrated. Doing so is a pain in the rear, it costs the buyer time/money, and the buyer will probably will not be thrilled with their experience. This especially applies to limited edition knives, such as the Forum Knives or Gold Class models.
The frequency in which this happens is probably very low relative to the number of knives sold, but that doesn't mean much for an individual consumer who winds up with one of the knives with less-than-ideal QC. So I would personally still like to hear of some sort of company effort to better address the issues of stopping stray knives out of spec from leaving the factory. This is a very important issue.
Are we harder on Benchmade than we are other brands? I certainly am. And the reason for that is I know their full capability and hold them in very high regard versus most other makers. Their ability for innovation and quality is a major reason I often buy more of their limited edition knives than I do from other companies, and I want to see that innovation and quality continue to expand and improve. So I do expect more, but that's why I have spent thousands of dollars on their knives.
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pnsxyr , you make some excellent points. And very well-stated. You , sir , are a poet.
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I definitely understand that, and I don't think it's realistic to expect detailed component-level QC from a knife manufacturer for whom the bulk of their production capacity goes toward $100-200 knives. However, when I think of "function testing" it's simply that: making sure opening, lockup, unlocking and closing are all working correctly, and no major cosmetic flaws are present. A couple of flips somewhere between assembly and packaging would achieve this. I don't know how many knives Benchmade produces in one day, but you could hire an intern or entry-level employee to do that.
Ulf Krogstad said:
I bought two Hammond Cruisers from the same online retailer, just different colors. One was just about perfect and the other was an absolute mess in nearly all functional aspects of the knife. I emailed CRKT, and it took them three days to respond to say that parts were no longer available to correct the issues because the Cruiser was discontinued. Fortunately for me, the seller exchanged it, and the replacement Cruiser was problem-free. Now, I have to say that my expectations are quite a bit lower with a Chinese CRKT than an American Benchmade, but a part of me still feels that CRKT should value their reputation enough to prevent knives from going out - regardless of the country of origin - without any visible attempt at QC. That goes double for Benchmade, given the price tag and implied superior workmanship.
When all is said and done, I'm no less likely to buy a Benchmade just because other people have encountered issues with their knives and/or the company's customer service, but I think my expectations will be a bit less lofty. It's not safe to assume that a "Made in the USA" stamp or a $100+ price tag guarantees a flawless product; it's more about guaranteeing some means of recourse if there is a problem.
I love my 707, but it too was flawed. The knife still functions fine, but the bevel from the factory was pretty bad. Very uneven, with the angle of the bevel, and the size of the bevel. It was very sharp, but I regularly see better, more evenly ground bevels on 10$ knives. My knife also had blade centering issues, I fixed that by making a paper thin spacer, cut to match the plastic back spacer on the knife. Then placed between the factory spacer, and steel liner. Essentially increasing the thickness of the original plastic spacer. This greatly improved the blade play, and centering.
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We hired a young gal to inspect parts and paid her barely over minimum wage, didn't matter we still charged them 500% more.
That was my point. CRK inspects 100% of their knives before shipping and they start at $350. Benchmades start at under $100.
How much more are people willing to pay?
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If they insist on the Benchmade name, I figure that they'll either pay a higher price - whatever markup that may include - with the expectation of perfection *or* buy on the secondary market from someone who has already established that there are no issues, pinning it on the seller rather than Benchmade if something is wrong with it. For those who don't feel they should have to pay more for tighter QC and can live with a different brand, they might be willing to take their chances on a knife with similar features but without the Benchmade name. At that point, it comes down to brand loyalty versus perceived value.
To be clear, I have no issues with any of my Benchmade knives, but I also have two Ganzo knives that are functionally excellent, both with Axis locks but with lesser steel. For daily use, I'm frankly OK with that, but the only value is as a user, not for collecting.
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I must say since switching from Coldsteel, Gerber, etc, I simply love Benchmade knives, Spydercos are great too but my Benchmades are awesome. Kind of surprised by guys complaining about Benchmade quality, mine are so amazing in terms of quality components and build quality at their price point. Can't wait to order more of these American made beauties!
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I just got two in - a Contego 810 and the new Ritter Grip - and they are both perfect. PERFECT. Before that I got one of the KW 810s and it was slightly off center, but that doesn't bother me overly much. As long as it doesnt rub.
Before that I got two of the REI Grips and they are both perfect as well. Just reporting my personal experiences.
Before that I got two of the REI Grips and they are both perfect as well. Just reporting my personal experiences.
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All I know is I ordered my first Griptilian and this is what I got for blade centering. I am less than impressed to say the least. I wrote their customer service 3 days ago and have not heard anything from them.
I am wondering about the clip. Is this normal with the Griptilian? The picture actually makes it look like it is touching more than it really is.
I have $30 Kershaws with far superior fit and finish. For just under 4x the price I expect much more than this.
I am wondering about the clip. Is this normal with the Griptilian? The picture actually makes it look like it is touching more than it really is.
I have $30 Kershaws with far superior fit and finish. For just under 4x the price I expect much more than this.
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I don't doubt your story, but I do wonder how many people that salesman let use that Benchmade Blue Box wrench set to disassemble and fiddle around with those high dollar knives?
My Response: - I know these guys pretty well. I've bought knives from them for several years and show them knives I've bought that they have only seen online or in a catalog. They are primarily a large gun store, and I'm a knife collector, so I teach them things including how to center a knife off their own, or attempt to. From the skills I've learned from being a member of this forum. I grew up on a farm. One repairs stuff all the time, something or other often daily, as needed. Or it doesn't work. We don't just "run them into town" - we get the parts in town and fix it ourselves. And if I can tear down an engine, fix it and put it back together again so it runs just fine, I can sure as hell center a flippin' knife blade if it can be centered. Now get off my lawn!D).
It is probably a good thing that you didn't buy a knife from there because seeing as how Benchmade is now being inundated with all these crappy knives, they may just start enforcing their No Disassembly policy and you would have ended up paying $20 minimum for the repair all because some guy at the decent volume shooting goods store lets anyone just walk in and start tearing stuff apart and voiding warranties.
My Response: - I've bought over 15 knives from them, paying full retail because I could inspect them and knew they were good units. I paid extra in my eyes for the convenience of not having to wait and knowing I had a unit that met up to my expectations. These young guys are friends of mine by now.
Now I wonder how many guns he let people fiddle with and are missing guide rods and recoil springs!
My Response: - Quality control on the guns I've purchased, and I buy from from reputable makers only, including Smith and Wesson, Remington, Colt and Beretta, NEEDED no inspecting, even though I look them over very closely. They are flawless from the get-go.
And that is my point; Benchmade is as good a name and company as these four. Ask them, and they'd agree. Yet they more recently have let shoddy examples of their work go out the door where the other four companies I've mentioned do not. When is the last time you saw uneven blueing on a Remington? Or a new Beretta? Or had a slide grind when pulling it back on a 1911? You DON'T!
And that is what I'm saying here. Guns and knives go hand in hand. Some of my knives cost as much as some guns from these makers, but the only one I see stepping up to that level of QC consistently is CRK. And I know that whenever I order a CRK from ANYWHERE it, chances greatly are, will be flawless. Just like I'd expect from Smith and Wesson, Colt, Remington, Beretta, or Browning. Flawed products do not leave the shipping dock.
I like Benchmade knives because they have normally been held to a high standard production wise, and they produce fine products. What is their tag line? "It's a Benchmade!"
And yes, their customer service is second to none in my eyes, which is another reason I love their knives. New blade for $35-45.00? Get the hell outta here! Need a new clip? No problem, shows up in mere days, too! GREAT people. So I am not bashing them overall. Far from it.
But when I gotta spend an hour centering the blade on my new $500 retail 940-121 (which I did, and I used Locktite on the pivot screw, too - OH THE HORROR! - and it's still perfectly centered a year later) what I am saying is Les needs to have a talk with the production guys. Because Benchmade is a better company than this.
They are a fine American company with a well-earned reputation for making quality products from one end of the line to the other. My Infidel, 710-1,710-2, Nitrous Blitz, Mini-Reflex, all were perfect.
They are not a company primarily importing things from China with questionable customer service. So act like it! EVERY day! Like they did when I started buying knives from them. And like what reputable gun companies still do every day. And they are far more complex than a knife is, no comparison.
It's two slabs, a pivot and a blade. MAYBE a couple of springs. So get it right from the get-go. is that too much to ask?
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I did notice something tonight that made me stop and wonder...
I was playing around in the drawer I keep my Bm's in, and something on one of the boxes caught my eye. On the front of the older boxes it says Benchmade Knife Company USA, and below that it says, " Held to a higher standard ". None of my newer boxes have that written on them. I'm wondering when they stopped using that slogan, and why ?
I was playing around in the drawer I keep my Bm's in, and something on one of the boxes caught my eye. On the front of the older boxes it says Benchmade Knife Company USA, and below that it says, " Held to a higher standard ". None of my newer boxes have that written on them. I'm wondering when they stopped using that slogan, and why ?