Discuss: Ebay Mistakes vs Quality Budget Knives, Batoning

[Twindog]

Thanks for all the knowledge and suggestions! Looks like I will be sticking to reputable mfg.s for my next purchase, or reputable forgers on this site. Maybe a TBT is in my future, the aforementioned was borrowed from a friend to try it out.

Here are some pictures:
IPAK broken

Try taking a macro of the actual break. Sometimes you can see a previous inclusion, or crack (rusting) or extra coarse grain.

 

[Cattaraugus225]

I have had campfires, fireplaces, hard dry Red Oak, and knives. I never split hard, dry Red Oak with a knife. Batoning just seems like using the wrong tool for the job to me, but I admit that I am old fashioned.

 

[Alberta Ed]

There are plenty of knives that will take batoning without a problem but none that I can think of in D2. That's great steel for cutting stuff but not the best for high impact. S7, 3V, A2 would stand up better. Then again, an ax is a better tool for splitting, or maybe a wedge and a sledge hammer.

 

[killgar]

I guess it depends on the maker, the quality of the individual piece of steel used to make the blade, and the design of the blade.

As I've related many times on this forum over the years, I regularly used the knife pictured below as a pry bar, as well as chopping and chiseling through wood and plaster, among other things. It's made of D2, and clearly it survived (pictures taken a few minutes ago).

When I read people saying that D2 isn't a "tough" steel, or that it isn't suitable for "hard use", I can't help but wonder if they have ever had a D2 blade break on them. Because that certainly hasn't been my experience. And considering how much hard use I put this knife through over several years, it's survival can't just be luck.

I know that there is a "study" that says D2 isn't "tough", but I don't put my faith in "studies". I put my faith in first-hand experience, and performance under real-world use. But I'm funny that way .

Experiences will vary.

 

[midnight flyer]

I live in South Texas as well and understand the comments about our stone-like wood. There are a few areas that have some tall, beautiful trees, but for the most part the trees here are hard, gnarly, knotty and very close grained. Good for shade, fence posts, and barbecue. NO ONE I know or have ever met around here in my 65 years sits down to "process wood" on purpose. Using an axe as a starter to get a splitting wedge in a crack, I have hit the back of my big axe hard enough to get it started in an live oak round that the sharp axe still hopped around in the round for a bit before biting in.

I have split a lot of wood to burn. Chainsaws, splitting mauls, splitting wedges and sledge hammers, and now power splitters rule the day. Personally, I can see in my mind's eye my Dad taking a knife away from me if I put a knife edge on the end of an oak round and commenced to beat on it with another piece of wood telling him I was practicing survival skills. Even with the right tools, S. Texas wood splitting is a chore and a half, just plain painful. I have never seen it as a fun activity. But to baton wood, "process wood" (how much qualifies as processing... a half cord?) or splitting for fun behind the house so you can use your knives... I don't get it.

All that being said, if you want a knife that will stand up to high impact wood splitting, there are some good suggestions in this thread. I would gravitate towards a knife that had a thick spine, medium hardness steel, with a blade using a more obtuse edge rather than a slicer. Buy a sharpened pry bar like a Becker, etc., that is a known performer that can handle a lot of abuse and stay away from cheap crap.

 

[Lesknife]

I guess it depends on the maker, the quality of the individual piece of steel used to make the blade, and the design of the blade.

As I've related many times on this forum over the years, I regularly used the knife pictured below as a pry bar, as well as chopping and chiseling through wood and plaster, among other things. It's made of D2, and clearly it survived (pictures taken a few minutes ago).

When I read people saying that D2 isn't a "tough" steel, or that it isn't suitable for "hard use", I can't help but wonder if they have ever had a D2 blade break on them. Because that certainly hasn't been my experience. And considering how much hard use I put this knife through over several years, it's survival can't just be luck.

I know that there is a "study" that says D2 isn't "tough", but I don't put my faith in "studies". I put my faith in first-hand experience, and performance under real-world use. But I'm funny that way .

Experiences will vary.

How thick is the blade stock ? That also matters and the primary grind.

 

[killgar]

How thick is the blade stock ? That also matters and the primary grind.

I agree (like I said- "design of the blade").

It's 7/32" thick (just under 1/4").

 

[helobite]

D2 is a tool steel, developed to cut other steels. As such, it is great for holding an edge. You want to beat on something, how about this:

this steel will take a lot more pounding than a tool steel, and it is made for that purpose.

 

[cmfkdragoon]

For years I've used and occasionally abused well heat-treated D2 and have had no issues with fracture, even at the edge. This includes activities like the OP describes.

 

[Triton]

I know Dozier uses D2, and certainly has a solid reputation.

In general my opinion is that batoning is knife abuse plain and simple. If you want to pound something through wood get the above mentioned froe or a wedge.

Additionally the whole idea seems silly. I can't imagine a survival situation where perfectly cut logs a lying about ready to be batoned. Instead wood will either take the form of sticks and twigs or larger dead falls. Either way no baton ing required. Some knives can take the abuse, but that doesn't mean you should.

As for these particular knives... Don't buy random unknown knives on eBay. Its not a good idea!

 

[Billy The Blade]

Thanks for all the knowledge and suggestions! Looks like I will be sticking to reputable mfg.s for my next purchase, or reputable forgers on this site. Maybe a TBT is in my future, the aforementioned was borrowed from a friend to try it out.

Here are some pictures:
IPAK broken

Sheesh...With a  Punisher skull stamping,
you'd think it'd be Tougher!!
Lol
B.T.B.

I guess it depends on the maker, the quality of the individual piece of steel used to make the blade, and the design of the blade.

As I've related many times on this forum over the years, I regularly used the knife pictured below as a pry bar, as well as chopping and chiseling through wood and plaster, among other things. It's made of D2, and clearly it survived (pictures taken a few minutes ago).

When I read people saying that D2 isn't a "tough" steel, or that it isn't suitable for "hard use", I can't help but wonder if they have ever had a D2 blade break on them. Because that certainly hasn't been my experience. And considering how much hard use I put this knife through over several years, it's survival can't just be luck.

I know that there is a "study" that says D2 isn't "tough", but I don't put my faith in "studies". I put my faith in first-hand experience, and performance under real-world use. But I'm funny that way .

Experiences will vary.

Nice looking piece

 

[strategy9]

I have seen those IPAK knives on Ebay before, and remember thinking to myself; handmade, "quality" materials, at that price, sounds too good to be true... And if I have learned anything in this life it is that when things seem too good to be true, they usually are...

Others have already stated all the things...
Batoning, while perfectly acceptable with the right tools, isn't necessarily the best practice to get used to... D2 isn't necessarily the best suited steel for the task... Particularly D2 from questionable origins... EBAY is not the most reputable place to buy knives, particularly "hand made" knives, at low budget prices... Reputable brands like ESEE or Kabar, many others, too many to list, will warranty their products with little to no hassle.
There are a few more reputable dealers on EBAY, and you can sometimes find good deals on 2nd hand knives, but stay away from the custom/handmade stuff at bargain prices. Too many good makers even right here on the exchange, actually making quality stuff, at fairly reasonable prices, to give junk manufacturers more support to continue manufacturing their junk.

 

[thebrain]

It looks like it had a small crack at the edge that probably happened during the heat treatment. D2 is a great steel but isn't known to be one of the tougher knife steels, it is usually tough enough but there are better choices for batoning. ESEE is a good choice and last I checked had a unconditional warranty, they make very nice using knives for the money. Welcome to the blade forums ,use the knowledge here to find the best blades for your taste and uses.

 

[MolokaiRider]

I highly doubt the knife in question is actually D2, let alone fully or correctly heat treated.

I was bamboozled by IPAK aka CFK back when they were all over Amazon.

I remember them advertising the sheath leather was sourced from a high end boutique purse brand, the handles fitted in the US, while the blades were made in the UK.

Many red flags in their checkered history.

 

[Arathol]

D2 isn't necessarily the best suited steel for the task... Particularly D2 from questionable origins...

The origins aren't really questionable. The knife was made in China for a company thats based in the UK, has a US address in Oregon and sells knives from Largo Florida....Its the steel thats questionable.....

 

[Sam Wilson]

Lol at CFK "knives." That thread above is a gold mine of laughs. And yes, whether it's actually D2 or not, not a choice steel for batonning.

Sam

 

[Hashishiin]

I live in South Texas, and we're up to our ears in REALLY relentless wood. (*Oak, Mesquite, Ligustrum, etc.)

In my humble opinion, D2 is the wrong steel for hard use.

Do you like tool steels then? I do, as I can be more fearless cutting, and want to carve some of those woods.

OP, you broke Pakistani 420, not a real D2 blade, sorry you fell for the okie doke

 

[gazz98]

Welcome to the forums.

Real D2 shouldn't be your first or top few choices for batoning. As others have stated, there is probably a legit question if you got a real D2 blade.

I would chalk it up to a live and learn experience. And again, I'd be hesitant to buy knives off ebay or etsy.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/paid-dealer-members-list.1783428/

 

[Alone]

Do you like tool steels then? I do, as I can be more fearless cutting, and want to carve some of those woods...

I love 3V. A2 has been good to me over the years. I have very limited experience with S7.

 

[LittleAugieMo]

Hey Y'all,
Firstly, post #1 for me so thank you for letting me join your community. My name is Ian and I've loved knives all my live, currently I'm exploring bushcraft and so that kind of emvironment is what my sharpies need to handle.

I bought some knives off ebay... The seller makes the knives and has 100% seller rating with long history, I believed them to be good knives until I used one to split a round of oak in a technique called batoning. It broke so quick I was shocked. Three waps and it was done, blade beoke right in half. It's D2 steel, did I buy the wrong knife for the job or is this knife a lemon? My technique may have been off as well, I struck the blade on the inside of the cut instead of the side where the blade protuded past the round, due to the shape of the blade (chamfered on top for the last 3", thinner surface). Blade is 2" wide, ~8" long full tang with 5" handle. I can't seem to post a picture from my camera roll- tia

May be "kicking the hornets nest" but here's my .02 . Using a knife to split wood is marginal at best and should be a "last resort" use of a knife. Small hatchet/Tomahawk a lot better tool for the job. If your in a SHTF situation and are limited to what you have with you, you're risking losing the use of your straight/ sheath knife. If you're planning on using a knife in that fashon I would consult w/maker or manufacturer for recommendations