Discussion and Design of a Survival Knife

[Big Chris]

A few weeks ago I bought season one and two of Alone on Amazon streaming and watched them.
I got very interested in the knives carried and it got me thinking what would I want to carry into or have on me in a Survival situation.
I started a thread on it in my sub forum but thought I would like to get you guys input as well.
The thread is linked below:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1456629-One-Knife-Survival-Knife

I plan to do more camping and outings this year with my kids and what better than a newly designed knife to start making new memories with.
I would typically carry several knives to use but really want to clean my "kit" up since I will need to pack extra things for the kids.

Thanks for looking and I would like if you could help keep the discussion going.

Here is a picture of one of the first 4 getting ready to go into heat treat.

 

[Klutz]

It looks very interesting. Please post the finished knife if you can.

 

[Big Chris]

It looks very interesting. Please post the finished knife if you can.

Thanks.
I most certainly will.

 

[Danketch]

Watching season 3 now, really liked the first 2 as well. Seems like the most "real" survival show out there.

As far as knives, if it were me, as much as I like the new steels like CPM 3V and M4, if I were going out there, I would want something in 1095 or maybe 01 or A2, that I could sharpen up relatively quickly. Probably full height convex grind as well. Probably 5.5-6.5" length.

Yours looks good as usual Big C.

 

[LG&M]

To me a survival knife is something smaller with only a 4-5" blade. A knife I will carry on every trip to the wood. For a Alone type challenge I would want more blade. Maybe a 8" blade in a tough steel like 80crv2 3/16" thick.
I like your overall design. Is it large enough to do the big stuff like chopping but still able to do the fine work like trsp triggers?
My BK4 IMO is a very good "Alone" knife but more then I want for a "walk in the woods"

 

[Mannlicher]

Chris, that is a fine looking blade. Saber grind will work just fine. Carbon or Stainless? Handle material?

I can't get away from the Nesmuk trio concept. A medium sized fixed blade, probably convex for ease of touching it up in the field. A folder, and I'd chose a Swiss Army One Hand Trekker, and a medium ax. I use a 19 inch Wetterlings.

 

[Doubletee]

Great looker!,, I like the looks of your SAR 4 also. You make some really useful looking blades Chris !

 

[Big Chris]

Great looker!,, I like the looks of your SAR 4 also. You make some really useful looking blades Chris !

Thanks.

Chris, that is a fine looking blade. Saber grind will work just fine. Carbon or Stainless? Handle material?

I can't get away from the Nesmuk trio concept. A medium sized fixed blade, probably convex for ease of touching it up in the field. A folder, and I'd chose a Swiss Army One Hand Trekker, and a medium ax. I use a 19 inch Wetterlings.

The first 4 I am making are in 3/16" O1 at 59-60 Rc.
I have never carried a hatchet or small axe into the woods with me before.
That is likely the main reason I continue to overlook it.
An axe would be a great companion though, and would make a lot of work tasks very simple.
An axe can also lead to much more serious injuries though if one is not conscience of it's ability.
I do typically prefer hand dressed convex edges as well.

 

[Camber]

Are you tapering the tang on these? I love the design, and the steel choice.

I just always think when I pack to go hiking, one of the big factors for me is the weight. It's not an item I plan to use a lot, so that's why the weight starts to become a factor when I can carry other things that I will use more often (extra insulation, a tarp, etc).

 

[Big Chris]

Are you tapering the tang on these? I love the design, and the steel choice.

I just always think when I pack to go hiking, one of the big factors for me is the weight. It's not an item I plan to use a lot, so that's why the weight starts to become a factor when I can carry other things that I will use more often (extra insulation, a tarp, etc).

Yes, I am tapering the tangs.
I am hoping to have the knife weight between 9 and 10 oz when finished.
With the tang tapered and not yet finish ground the weight is 7.5 oz.
I doubt that finish grinding will remove too much more weight before handles are added.
I do feel that I am on track to get the weight where I want it.

 

[Camber]

That's excellent Chris. Thank you for the detail. Looking back I see I missed that in the other thread.

Really think you have a winner on your hands.

 

[Wolf7]

I like your clean simple design.

The only two things I would change is make it more narrow depth at the tip by 5 degrees for 1"-1.5" from tip for fine tip work/carving and make index finger groove deeper between tang and handle to prevent accidental slippage by finger onto blade if stabbing into hard wood for example.

 

[Hard Knocks]

Here is a picture of one of the first 4 getting ready to go into heat treat.

Man I don't see much to not like about that blade. Having seen some of your thin knives, I was going to suggest bumping this one up to a thickness of 3/16" but I see further down where you've thought of that.

You'll have to decide on a sharp spine or whether you'll ease the edges. I don't like sharp spines on this type knife for a couple reasons. One, if you need to draw-knife anything your hand's on the spine. Two, sharp spines tear up batons. I pack a separate striker for firesteels, so I don't usually strike off the spine of my knife. I might be in the minority there, I know a sharp spine is a must for some folks, and this is YOUR knife so to each his own. I just think I'm able to get in more and safer usability with a less-sharp spine than the one or two tasks that a sharp spine performs (striking firesteels, producing scrapings).

The blade profile looks really good, and I like the amount of usable blade you've got by staying choilless. Tapered tang should balance it out nice and still be plenty strong. Really looking forward to subscribing to the thread and seeing the finished knife.



Edit: Just got a chance to read through your forum thread. Looks like some of this is already on your radar :thumbup:

 

[Big Chris]

Hard Knocks, Thanks for your reply.
I have designed quite a few knives but never really put as much thought into each aspect of the knife as I have on this one.
I am not a fan of choils or sharpening notches because I like as much usable edge as possible.
For that reason I bring the edge back as close to the hand as I can, which also helps for increased control.
I do not make too many thicker bladed knives anymore, but that looks like it may be changing.
I am still in a quandary about what to do with the spine.
I will either leave about a 2" section crisp about the middle of the blade, or leave that as an option for the final purchaser.
Thanks

 

[Hard Knocks]

I am not a fan of choils or sharpening notches because I like as much usable edge as possible.
For that reason I bring the edge back as close to the hand as I can, which also helps for increased control.

As a user, I'm of the same mind. It makes tasks like feathersticking so much easier when you can get up snug to the working edge and take advantage of all that extra leverage that comes with staying close to the pivot point.

I am still in a quandary about what to do with the spine. I will either leave about a 2" section crisp about the middle of the blade, or leave that as an option for the final purchaser.

The spine is going to be a point of contention. It'll be a big bonus for you as a maker to be able to give the customer what he wants there, as the design of the spine is either a deal maker or deal breaker for a lot of guys. I'll still be interested on what you decide to do for your personal user.

Hard Knocks, Thanks for your reply.
I have designed quite a few knives but never really put as much thought into each aspect of the knife as I have on this one.

I've always liked the look of your work. The stars haven't aligned for me to get a piece from you yet, but I'm sure that'll change in the future. Just looking at the unfinished blade blank above it's readily apparent that a lot of thought has gone into this one already, and that you've got a good base of knowledge for what you want that only comes with experience. Thanks for taking input on the project, and for the chance to visit with you, very cool :thumbup:

Dave

 

[lmalterna]

Chris,
I am VERY interested in watching this progress. Maybe a passaround on one of the early ones? It is so hard to ber certain on detail as everything becomes a compromise. My simple answer on the spine- make it sharp- if the buyer does not know how to stone the edge to break it to their preference, maybe they should not handle sharp tools.
I hope it is not gosh to include the below pic- the maker no longer makes knives and this one was made to my specs. The thumb scallop edge is softened, the middle is a sharp spine, the froward portion was well rounded-with a 1/4" long swedge just enough to cleanly cut fibers in drilling. A one off to please this buyer but a range of options.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[Amoo]

Thanks.



The first 4 I am making are in 3/16" O1 at 59-60 Rc.
I have never carried a hatchet or small axe into the woods with me before.
That is likely the main reason I continue to overlook it.
An axe would be a great companion though, and would make a lot of work tasks very simple.
An axe can also lead to much more serious injuries though if one is not conscience of it's ability.
I do typically prefer hand dressed convex edges as well.

For me it's 4 things.

1. Hatchet, I think I've got one of those compact SOG ones, I forget because it stays in the small front compartment on my 4 wheeler.
2. Machete, again it doesn't need to be large, but you never know what you're going to be getting into and I'd rather use the tool made for the job.
3. 2 knives, 1 more survival oriented one similar to the one you have pictured, and second a dedicated skinning knife.
4. Lastly a revolver of some sort, I choose to stick with the .357, but seeing as you live a little further north than I do, you might be in better shape with a .45.

All of these things are in my 4 wheeler at all times along with a compass, a light, a pair of gloves, a lighter & pencil in a bag and a tow strap. I've only got one of those small compartments on the front of my 4-wheeler but between it and the two side cubbies I never find myself needing anything more.

I find things like small shovels and axes unnecessary weight and you could make the argument for the machete as well, but I find if I need to bust up ground or wood the hatchet does a good enough job that it can double as both.

 

[Big Chris]

Chris,
I am VERY interested in watching this progress. Maybe a passaround on one of the early ones? It is so hard to ber certain on detail as everything becomes a compromise. My simple answer on the spine- make it sharp- if the buyer does not know how to stone the edge to break it to their preference, maybe they should not handle sharp tools.
I hope it is not gosh to include the below pic- the maker no longer makes knives and this one was made to my specs. The thumb scallop edge is softened, the middle is a sharp spine, the froward portion was well rounded-with a 1/4" long swedge just enough to cleanly cut fibers in drilling. A one off to please this buyer but a range of options.

Thanks,
Bill

Thanks for your input Bill.
I find it quite interesting on all the differing opinions about how the spine should be treated.
I will for sure round the first inch after the handle for the thumb, after that it will likely be customers option.
Thanks for sharing the pic of your "One Knife" concept.
I like seeing others ideas for what they want in a do-all knife.

 

[lmalterna]

Chris,
The person I was working with wanted me to throw the kitchen sink at them and it was a chance to make the ultimate compromise knife so I could try ideas out.

I have subscribed to both threads and would like very much to try this design of yours. It looks like a real winner and your reputation for functional using knives is tops.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[rustyrazor]

Thanks.



The first 4 I am making are in 3/16" O1 at 59-60 Rc.
I have never carried a hatchet or small axe into the woods with me before.
That is likely the main reason I continue to overlook it.
An axe would be a great companion though, and would make a lot of work tasks very simple.
An axe can also lead to much more serious injuries though if one is not conscience of it's ability.
I do typically prefer hand dressed convex edges as well.

I usually overlook the axe as well... sturdy hatchet/tomahawk or kukuri/parang will come along if I am going to be intentionally living off the land for more than a few days, but I've ALWAYS managed just fine with a good fixed blade, and that there looks like a fine fixed blade. I generally stay under 5" blade nowadays but that's a personal preference, and with a name like big chris, I'd assume you're a larger man than myself and a larger knife makes less difference in regards to comfort in carry. Just my 2c but I love the overall shape... simple and without clutter, and I agree; if you don't like a choil, get that plunge line as close to the handle as possible to use the leverage and maximize cutting edge. Could care less about a sharpened spine as I'd rather bring a striker with me than have an uncomfortable knife when I'm baring down on it carving things to make my life better in the tulips. Looks good so far... as usual.