Discussion: Selling Knives as a Beginner

D

Don Nguyen

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Oct 4, 2011
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It seems that with every new knife I try to make, with the intention of getting it (not perfect) flawless, there are always issues that come up with the fit, finish, etc. It's really irksome, because I spend a lot of time trying to get it right, and especially as a beginner, it takes longer than it really should. I'd really like to use some of the money that I could possibly get with selling a knife to get some materials, etc.

Just recently I have been working on 2 chef knives, but have issues with the tapered tang being uneven and not perfect. The knife will perform the way I want it to, which is good, but I can't get over the fact that the tang doesn't look the way it should.


What's your take on this kind of situation? It might be a long, long time before I am able to make something without flaws.
 
First and fore most tapered tangs are great but not necessary to start out. That said, you need scribe lines for both blade grinding as well as tang grinding. I know some well established guys might not use them, but. Those scribed reference lines make every aspect of grinding that much easier. The only other thing is practice. I too am new at this and can not tell you how much steel I have waisted!! Time, practice, and patience. I have learned to take a little then look things over. Take a little more look things over. When I started I was hogging so much at once I left myself no room to correct things. Best of luck.
 
Don, I feel the same way. I have a drawer full of knives that I feel are not good enough to sell. I've given a few away and they love them. I just see so many areas where I could have done better next time. Some friends are now asking if they can buy the imperfect knives. I may sell them just to cover materials only.
 
Don Nguyen said:
What's your take on this kind of situation? It might be a long, long time before I am able to make something without flaws.
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My take is that performance is King. Knives are tools, and should be designed and built for specific tasks.

Take a stroll through any major knife show. There are so many expensive knives out there that don't cut well! I mean beautiful, highly-polished, gorgeous "knives" with high-end materials and breath-taking joinery and craftsmanship, engraving and scrimshaw, precious-metal inlays and gem-stones and all manner of other nonsense... but poor geometry and balance... To me, that's not a knife. It's a cheesy attempt at sculpture or "art".

I've never made a knife without a flaw. I probably never will. This keeps me awake at night and drives me to keep trying. But I do make knives that CUT, and that pleases me and my clients. Tapered tangs, finely ground blades, and so forth do indeed contribute to a knife's usefullness.
 
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james terrio said:
My take is that performance is King. Knives are tools, and should be designed and built for specific tasks.

Take a stroll through any major knife show. There are so many expensive knives out there that don't cut well! I mean beautiful, highly-polished, gorgeous "knives" with high-end materials and breath-taking joinery and craftsmanship, engraving and scrimshaw, precious-metal inlays and gem-stones and all manner of other nonsense... but poor geometry and balance... To me, that's not a knife. It's a cheesy attempt at sculpture or "art".

I've never made a knife without a flaw. I probably never will. This keeps me awake at night and drives me to keep trying. But I do make knives that CUT, and that pleases me and my clients. Tapered tangs, finely ground blades, and so forth do indeed contribute to a knife's usefullness.
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What he said.
 
I claim (and can easily prove) that I not a craftsman, yet I am cursed with the desire to make knives. Unfortunately for me the standard for knives is nothing less than perfection. I've improved a LOT, but will never reach the perfection standard so the knives I make are just because I want to and I give them all away. Having said all that, and with tongue firmly in cheek, I maintain that what one person perceives as "flaws" could just as well be seen as "character marks".

Take wood used in a handle for example. Nice straight grain is "perfect" while chaotically grained burl is imperfect?!?!?

All flaws are not the same. If it is cosmetic then you have a good useful knife. But a flaw that effects the function or durability is a different matter.

If you're worried about your reputation tell people your dopey cousin or your evil twin made the knife.

Now Don, If you're as smart as I think you are you will ignore pretty much everything I've said here. You make really nice knives and it is plain to see that you ARE a craftsman. You're going to hit that "perfection" standard real soon.

- Paul Meske
 
I have to feel that I would be happy to own the knife myself. It doesn't have to be perfect, though that's always the goal, but I have to be satisfied that the customer will be happy. Then, be honest about how you present it. Don't over state the flaws, but don't hide them either. Show the buyer what they're getting and let them decide.

I'm certainly a beginner still, but I don't hesitate to sell my work. I do have a few that I've kept rather than sell because they had cosmetic issues that I didn't feel appropriate to release into the public eye. In my case that's usually a warped blade that didn't cooperate in straightening or a screwed up grind that I decided to finish up for personal use.
 
I have used this line before... "It only matters if it matters." What flaws are you willing to overlook? For me, having a crooked maker's mark is a thorn in my side. My "MARCHAND" stamp is long and thin. It is really easy to tell if it is off and many knives have gone out that way. BUT, it is not a dealbreaker for me. My style is loosey goosey and organic, anyway.

My final inspection is to look down the length of the knife, edge down from tip to tang and tang to tip, then flip it edge up and do the same. It is MOST important to have a blade that is inline and symmetrical to itself... especially on choppers. Any wave or warp is unacceptable. Gaps and scratches don't have as much of an effect on performance... though they will definately effect price point.

Set realistic standards for yourself and strive to get better with every knife you make.

I try not to let anything out with obvious flaws.... but I have also revisited my blades from just 3yrs ago and cringed.:p
 
Rick Marchand said:
I have used this line before... "It only matters if it matters." What flaws are you willing to overlook?
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Well said, brother. :thumbup: When I speak of flaws, I'm talking about things that most people would never notice. I'm just weird that way...

Minor scratches in the blade's finish are perhaps acceptable, and will affect price accordingly. Flaws in the overall grind/construction/materials/HT, that may cause weakness or a lessening of the tool's usefulness, are absolutely NOT acceptable.
 
I don't think they will cause any problems for the performance, but it's noticable that the tang surfaces aren't flat. Also, while they aren't warped, they're constructed in an assymetrical way. Exaggerated example, but lets say I had a knife that had a distal taper and a tapered tang, the left side of the knife would be flat but the right side would have both the tapers; odd things like that.

I'll have to decide myself what to do with these..... =/
 
Practice makes (nearly) perfect, Don. Keep at it! There is always room to straighten/even a tapered tang and/or blade... the worst that can happen is the blank ends up way too thin and you learned in the process. (in my humble opinion there is almost no such thing as a too-thin blade... it may be re-designed for a different purpose, that's all)

Thin is In and Light is Right.
 
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I only dabble in my own making of knives.... and boats... and camping gear ... and houses... and furniture... and .... :) And none of them meet my own level of perfection, even though others may or may not see the flaws...

But I know that at some point if you make a name for yourself, those things that are not "perfection" in your eyes will still sell to someone who is interested more in the function and price than anything else. This is why companies have "seconds" sales, and Kershaw sells "blems"... and they are all successful... :) don't give up hope and don't stop practicing, and don't keep the "Seconds" forever. :D
 
james terrio said:
... I mean beautiful, highly-polished, gorgeous "knives" with high-end materials and breath-taking joinery and craftsmanship, engraving and scrimshaw, precious-metal inlays and gem-stones and all manner of other nonsense... but poor geometry and balance... To me, that's not a knife. It's a cheesy attempt at sculpture or "art"...
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Nonsense? Cheesy? Sound's like someone is just jealous that he can't do the same. :p;)

I have a hard time believing that someone can make the knives you are describing here and do such a poor job, function wise.

Don, we are all in the same boat believe me. I think chasing flaws is part of the job description. :D
 
Seems to me that it would be easier to make all your knives as practice knives... making them only so you can refine your skills. never sell any of them... let your heirs sell them after you die.

Of course, I'm being facetious.... or am I?
 
I will have to agree on all of the points above. Function is key, fit and finish are a bonus you pay extra for. Of course, you will be hard-pressed to sell a knife that may function well but looks slapped together without care.

Honesty is best... if you aren't sure if your fit and finish is up to par... don't try and hide it. Take pictures that will show the customer EVERYTHING on the knife. Tricky photography can be used to hide flaws and disappoint the customer when they receive the knife, and that might hurt your reputation if you are known for selling "flawed" knives as perfect. The maker generally will scrutinize their work a lot more closely than the majority of customers... but you gotta find a medium... "flawed" is a very objective thing for custom knives.

It is kind of a sticky subject... sure you can be GREAT at polishing steel perfectly and choosing awesome materials, but as JT said... without proper design, geometry and balance your knife is worthless as a tool.
 
I'm trying imagine "tapered tang" and "chef" in the same knife, and it just doesn't ring. As another beginner, all of mine are for use, not for sale. I'm not a collector, so I have no use for fancy knives. If I can't use it, what good is it?
 
Patrice Lemée;10888392 said:
I have a hard time believing that someone can make the knives you are describing here and do such a poor job, function wise.
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You would be surprised, my friend. I certainly was - to the point of being disillusioned and disheartened by some of my heroes. There's a lot of very beautiful, very expensive, near-useless junk out there.
 
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I started making slipjoints a few years ago and was constantly plagued with inferior fit and finish. I just knew they were not good enough to sell. So.....I just put them away and eventually I had a dozen plastic baggies full of lousy slipjoints. It ended up they were mostly lousy in my mind....not in the minds of many people that wanted or needed a less expensive than custom quality knife. I went to Blade. I sold every one of those knives from 60 bucks to 250 bucks. Now...some were better than others. I gave away about 30-50 knives to kids and really old kids alike. I made enough $$ to begin making good knives. I'm glad I don't have those knives any more but am quite sure many people are happy with their purchase. I have sold about 100+ knives since 2011 Blade. I say....just make them and you will get better. You must price them accordingly. The market will tell you what they are worth.

John Lloyd
 
Do what you do. Make your knives as though you depend on them.
 
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james terrio said:
(in my humble opinion there is almost no such thing as a too-thin blade... it may be re-designed for a different purpose, that's all)

Thin is In and Light is Right.
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Hmmmn... Well, all that tells me is that we need to get you out using more blades in different environments. Unless you are speaking about edge thickness at the shoulder?
 
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