Discussion: Selling Knives as a Beginner

Rick Marchand said:
Hmmmn... Well, all that tells me is that we need to get you out using more blades in different environments. Unless you are speaking about edge thickness at the shoulder?
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I would love to get out in the boondocks together and compare our blades! That honestly sounds like a whole lot of fun, and I'm sure I would learn a lot.

In general, I am speaking about any blade, in any given parameter of use, performing best at its given task with the thinnest edge and the most acute bevel grind the steel and HT can support. (I would not ask a filet knife to split firewood, nor would I expect a chopper to butterfly pork chops or julienne carrots.)
 
James’s logic works within the parameters and/or framework he’s set for himself,… same with us all.

However, change the parameters and/or rules and the logic no longer applies.

This is why one can not be both an artist and a knifemaker... and still be considered sane,... reverse "Catch 22".
 
Tai Goo said:
This is why one can not be both an artist and a knifemaker... and still be considered sane,... reverse "Catch 22".
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You have inadvertently helped me realize that I am neither an artist, nor sane. Thanks!
 
I do appreciate the "art" aspect of some knives, and really do admire the craftsmanship that goes into them. In the end, every knife should be able to cut. You never know when you will be forced to actually put your very expensive knife to use. So in the end, function is king, fit and finish are the queen. I think all a maker can do is the best they can. As long as you do not advertise perfect knives, there should be no issues.
 
It’s really whatever makes you and your customers happy. I can’t say that one approach is necessarily “better” than the other. However, people who can’t make a pretty knife usually play up and/or hype the performance aspects…

Probably the most popular approach is the one that says a knife should cut good and look good,… but one can choose to favor either side as long as there’s some type of reasoning or purpose behind it.

Sometimes looks and performance overlap. In other words, if a knife looks clumsy, awkward, unbalanced, dull and poorly crafted,... chances are it is.

Ugly knives don’t cut any better than pretty knives,... they just get used more. ;)
 
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I was a custom boat builder until the bottom fell out of the market. I could tell you every flaw in every boat I ever built!! When I took a boat to a show, however, a buyer never saw the flaws unless I pointed them out. What I finally learned was 1) I am my worst critic and 2) if the boat was pretty and functional the buyers didn't care about minor cosmetic flaws. So, if you have a cosmetic flaw price the knife accordingly and if the buyer asks why the pjrice is lower than your other knives point out the flaw.
 
One of the best things you can do is go to a show and check out other maker's knives. You may find your self-esteem rising as you notice little things in even the top maker's knives... just don't let them see you cringing.:p
 
tim37a said:
I was a custom boat builder until the bottom fell out of the market. I could tell you every flaw in every boat I ever built!! When I took a boat to a show, however, a buyer never saw the flaws unless I pointed them out. What I finally learned was 1) I am my worst critic and 2) if the boat was pretty and functional the buyers didn't care about minor cosmetic flaws. So, if you have a cosmetic flaw price the knife accordingly and if the buyer asks why the pjrice is lower than your other knives point out the flaw.
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That's pretty much the approach I took making and selling jewelry. If I waited until I could make a Faberge quality egg I would never had sold a thing. As it was, when I was a young buck hitching around the good old US of A in the mid 70s I started carving antler and bone. In those days small mom and pop business ownership was more prevalent than the corporate food, gas, everything chains are these days. You could trade stuff with individuals for a sandwich or a few bucks of gas, etc. You could peddle your wares in many places and pick up a few bucks here and there and keep on truckin'.

Eventually I learned rudimentary silversmithing modeled after Zuni and Navaho silver and turquoise jewelry. Cabochon agates, jaspers, mother of pearl and abalone were popular. My few tools fit in a little jock strap sized duffle bag. I'd set up "shop" on picnic tables or on a board placed across my lap in campsites to make more stuff to peddle. The more I made, and I made hundreds and thousands, the better I got. Sometimes bezel cups weren't centered, sometimes something melted a little, but that was all the material I had...so I sold it anyway. Some stuff came out better or worse than others. Prices were negotiable.

Many years later after various studios, shops, residential gallery gigs, etc...eventually I ended up Goldsmithing in Beverly Hills. Even then prices varied according to customer capacities ($), as well as my tradesman ones, quality of materials, timelines, etc. It was a difficult lesson to learn, but you can't always do your best on every commission. Well, you can do your best, but within defined parameters. If a person brings in a few pieces of jewelry to recycle into a new piece and can't afford to buy anymore materials, then that's the materials you have to work with. If they can only spend X number of dollars, then that defines the limits on how much time you can invest in making the piece. You do the best you can given the materials and time allotted.

I guess what I'm saying, whether you're a beginning, developing (and we always are) or master craftsman sell your stuff. And, be prepared to adjust pricing given the parameters of your skills, materials, quality of results, customer's wallet and willingness, etc!
 
If you wait until you are as good as you're going to be, you'll never sell anything. ;) :)

I strive to make the best knife I can, in every aspect--- but I've never made one that was perfect. Knives I made 10 years ago have flaws that I didn't even know to look for at the time. Not huge glaring things, but things that could have been improved if I had the eye and the skill to do so. I don't regret selling them at all. They were the best I could do at the time, and were purchased by happy customers.

If a buyer is in the market for a perfect knife, he's never going to make a purchase. ;) :)

Just do the best you can and keep moving forward. :)

FWIW- I wasn't ready to sell the first knife that I sold--- but the guy who bought it thought I was. :)
 
Rick Marchand said:
One of the best things you can do is go to a show and check out other maker's knives. You may find your self-esteem rising as you notice little things in even the top maker's knives... just don't let them see you cringing.:p
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I am in the process of sharpening a customer's collection of custom knives and cringe and some of the pieces that made it out of other makers' shops. Now, in all fairness, most of these knives were made by good ole boys who had a saw blade, bench grinder, and didn't know any better.

As I compare my knives against theirs I fell much better about my craftsmanship. At the same time, when I visited Dan Graves' shop this past September, I drooled on his pieces of stag and Damascus and fealt really about about myself. It's all a matter of perspective.

A thread like this came up a few years ago and someone posted this quote that really helps me:

"An artist never really finishes his work, he mearly abandons it." ~ Paul Valery
 
That's a good one, Jason. Someone around here also said, "Making a knife takes two people... one to make it and one to tell him he's done." The point being the same... most of us are pretty particular and have a hard time ending a project and saying, "well... that's as good as this one's going to get."
 
This is a really good topic, here's my opinion.
Within the realm of user knives, as opposed to art knives or dedicated wall hangers, I think there are three things needed in a handmade knife in order to make it worth a customer's money
First - performance. It has to cut better, hold an edge longer, and stand up to more abuse than your average factory knife. Most of this is getting the HT and edge geometry dialed. Lots of testing.
Second- Feel. They've gotta fit the hand comfortably with no hot spots and be comfortably and safely used in a variety of grips for different tasks.
Third - Fit and finish. Symmetry is the most important thing. Scales need to be aligned at the shoulders and pins evenly spaced. Spine and edge straight and grinds symmetrical.
Just be honest with yourself and your customers and its all good.
 
Everyone, you all have done so much for me. I really appreciate all of your input here, and it seems like everyone's on the same page too!
 
Structural flaws that affect the performance shouldn't ever be sold imo.....bad heat treat, overheated when finish grinding, high stress points ground too thin, etc. I think selling cosmetically flawed knives is fine as long as you are honest and point out the flaws.

I read about makers that end up with boxes of "scrap" knives they bury, burn, etc. because they have great pride in workmanship. I can understand that, having pride in your work is a good thing. But throwing them away is such a waste since many people would love to have them. Here is what I did/do; I mark them as flawed, reduce the price, point out the flaw, and donate a portion to charity. Sometimes its 20%, sometimes 100%. For awhile I was sponsoring kids through the Christian Childrens fund like that. Now I give it to disabled homeless people in the area and small gifts for extremely poor children. I cringe at some of the mistakes I make (and I make many) but to me seeing the look on a poor kids face when you buy them a hamburger more than makes up for the embarrassment of mistakes.

I remember I sold one knife and donated like $40 to a little girl for her bday through Christian Childrens fund. I could not believe the amount of stuff she bought with it. Jeans for her brothers, a bag of rice for the family, dresses for her sisters, medicine for a family member, a toy for her little brother, etc.(shes from a poor country so $40 is more than a months wage for many of them).

So you end up with a happy customer, a happy individual that got much needed goods, and hopefully a happy maker for being able to help out others.

Sorry if this comes off as preachy, that is not my intent. I just wanted to show my solution to the dilemma of flawed knives, and how I turn a negative into a positive.
 
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