Disruption in the political forum.

Discussion in 'Tech Support, General Q&A, Site Feedback & More' started by moonwilson, Sep 10, 2008.

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  1. moonwilson


    Aug 10, 2006
    Since nobody else has done this yet I figured it might as well be me. I'm not a frequent poster in Political, mainly because of Chuck Gollnick and his personal crusade against "enforcing the rules". I had always assumed that he was a moderator there.

    Turns out, he's not.

    Here's a link to a thread which brought the problem into focus for many:


    Here's a quote from that thread from Mike G:

    There is another thread out there which expands on this issue, but I can't link to it, because to do so would be a violation of that forum's rules.

    I'm following Mike G's advice with the hope of having Mr. Gollnick persuaded to modify his behavior.
  2. Phil Elmore

    Phil Elmore

    Feb 28, 2002
    Several times in the course of discussing this thread...


    ...it was suggested that a thread be started in Service and Support regarding the activities of Chuck Gollnick in the Political forum. The thread to which I've just linked sums up the issues fairly well, with several linked examples; the complaint is essentially this:

    Chuck, while not a moderator of the Political Forum, has repeatedly acted in that capacity, and done so overzealously, attempting to enforce the letter of the Political Forum's rules through repetitive harassment of posters who have posted legitimate and perfectly reasonable threads -- threads with which the real moderators of the Political forum have not had problems.

    As Chuck shows no indication of accepting this assessment of his behavior (and therefore has not indicated that he intends to cease and desist in this behavior) I figured I'd lean in and take one for the team by being the one to post it in Service and Support.

    Personally I don't know what can be done in an official capacity, and I'll accept whatever conclusion is reached by the forum management in that regard.
  3. moonwilson


    Aug 10, 2006
    I agree with Phil. Gollnick is a disruptive influence in Political.
  4. Phil Elmore

    Phil Elmore

    Feb 28, 2002
  5. Gollnick

    Gollnick Musical Director

    Mar 22, 1999
    This is a false charge and a lie.

    As I have repeatedly pointed out, I have acted in the capacity of a moderator in the political forum twice in my memory: once to ban a poster who was selling cell phones (or maybe it was counterfeit handbags) and once to ban a spammer who was peppering the whole bf.c site with white supremacy propaganda; in cases like these, all moderators are authorized and expectated to act site-wide.

    Other than these cases, I have never acted in the capacity of a moderator on the political forum, never, not once. I have never, not once, editted another poster's post, issued an infraction, given a warning, banned anyone, closed a thread, split a thread, merged threads, or otherwise acted in the capacity of a moderator in the political forum. All charges that (aside from the two cases cited) I have acted in the capacity of a moderator in the political forum are false and lies.

    Furthermore, I have never sought to imply that I am a moderator in that forum and have frequently posted to very clearly point out that I am not. Anyone who thinks that I am a moderator in that forum is simply too lazy to look at the list of official moderators.
  6. moonwilson


    Aug 10, 2006
    Um, perhaps people assume you are a moderator because your name is in red, and you insist on "correcting" posters at every possible opportunity. That was what I always assumed, but I guess I'm just lazy. If it walks like a duck, it talks like a duck, it looks like a duck, should you have to look up the paperwork and verify that it is, in fact, a duck?

    Moderators do other things besides banning people or handing out infractions.
    Generally speaking, moderators are the ones who enforce the rules. You are a glaring exception to that generality. Do you fail to see how anyone could mistake your behavior for that of a moderator? Especially since your name bears the moderator's crimson? You have pointed out repeatedly that you cannot change your name's color while in the political forum. Yet you cannot claim that you do not enjoy the additional weight that that color gives to you. You take advantage of it every day.

    Mr. Gollnick, if you could somehow refrain from calling people out for their failure to follow THE RULES, and leave that up to the actual moderators, it would greatly enliven the political forum.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2008
  7. Phil Elmore

    Phil Elmore

    Feb 28, 2002
    It is not a false charge, and it is not a lie. I resent the accusation that I have lied, for I have not knowingly misrepresented the situation in any way. You have repeatedly conducted yourself as a moderator in that forum, to the degree that other posters have assumed you were one based on your behavior. Your harassment of legitimate posters in the Political forum must end, because it is discouraging participation in the forum. The links provided attest to this.
  8. Gollnick

    Gollnick Musical Director

    Mar 22, 1999
    As I have repeatedly explaind elsewhere, the forum software does not allow me to change that. It's true when I post in the Community forum, the General forum, the Custom forum, anywhere and it is true of all of our moderators site-wide. If you want to know who the moderators of a forum are, you need to check the official list; it's not secret or hidden. If you assume something, well... that was your doing, wasn't it? I have never claimed to be a moderator on the political forum. I have never implied it. I have never encouraged that assumption. I have, in fact, frequently posted to dispell is.

    Pointing out the rules and insisting on compliance is something every member can and should do.

    Pointing out the rules and insisting on compliance is something every member can and should do.

    If there is any additional weight, it is forced upon me against my expressed will inasmuchas I have repeatedly posted to make crystal-clear to everyone that I am not a moderator. If there is any additional weight, it is in your mind only and caused not by my actions but by your inactions and assumptions. I can't control yor inactions or your assumptions; I've tried to make my non-moderator status clear many times. If you persist in those assumptions, then that is your fault.

    And as for me tying to take advantage of it, I don't think so. If there is any advantage, it is not taken by me by my actions but forced by you and your assumptions despite my attempts to dispell your assumptions. I have never tried to imply that I am a moderator on the political forum nor take advantage of any misunderstanding; indeed, I have tried to clear up assumptions and misunderstandings.
  9. moonwilson


    Aug 10, 2006
    I should? What if I don't wanna?

    It is well established that YOU can point out the rules and insist on their compliance. However, the question here is really "should" you continue to do so in such a consistently overbearing and condescending manner. Obviously, there are many who would appreciate it if you didn't.
  10. Phil Elmore

    Phil Elmore

    Feb 28, 2002
    Nicely and succintly put.
  11. Gollnick

    Gollnick Musical Director

    Mar 22, 1999
    That depends, I suppose on your vision of a "lively" political discussion forum, doesn't it?

    Right now, we have very active threads on:

    Sen. Obama's tax and economic policies


    Constitutional rights

    The Second Amendment, it's history, it's interpretation, and the positions of the two parties on it

    Gov. Palin and her speech at the Convention

    Capital Gains and Inheritance taxes

    Economic Stimulous

    Bob woodward's new book

    The Federal takover of Freddie and Fannie

    Taxes and healthcare

    And several other serious and lively political topics.

    I suppose that if you want more Photochopped pictures of Gov. Palin or Sen. Clinton, more cut-and-paste e-mail chainletters about stupid things supposedly (but not actually if you look into it) said by Pres. Bush, or more raised-eyebrow innuendo "questions" about Sen. Obama's citizenship or religion, then yes, ignoring the rules would liven things up a bit.

    The rules don't ask and neither do I for a Ph.D. thesis, just some thoughts or ideas or opinions of your own. One or two sentences, ten or twenty (maybe fewer) words. It's not a high bar.
  12. Phil Elmore

    Phil Elmore

    Feb 28, 2002
    If your behavior really were as reasonable as you describe it here, there would be no problem. It isn't, and you're not. You've gone much farther than simply saying, "Hey, what's your opinion?" You've written lengthy diatribes excoriating contributing members for not meeting your standards when they have, in fact, met the standards of posting in the political forum. You've made your criticisms in an unnecessarily condescending, rude, and arrogant fashion. The result of your behavior has been to discourage participation in Political by several people who have named you specifically as the reason they don't post there.

    It's time for you to cease and desist. Leave the moderation of the Political forum to those officially charged with the task, and look after your own posts for a change.
  13. SPXTrader


    Dec 26, 2006
    Interesting choice of verbiage..."we have" instead of "there are".

    Simply reading the posts there by Mr. Gollnick, I thought he was a Moderator of that forum.
  14. mmmotorcycle

    mmmotorcycle Midnight Joker #42

    Jun 17, 2006
    I left posting there for quite a while because I felt unworthy of his moderating. He was too intense in his persual of the rules. Yet with so many asking him to stop, he still is in denial of the facts. Claiming you are not perfect does not help you Chuck. Nobody is but usually one strives to be perfect rather than refusing to listen.
  15. shotgunner11


    Dec 17, 2005
    I always assumed Gollnick was a mod in political, but thought him to be all bark and no bite due to the fact that he constantly complained about people's lack of adherence to the rules yet never issued infractions for it.

    I must say that, when I was active in political, many times I refrained from starting a thread that I may have wanted too for fear of being repremanded over the constantly changing "rules according to Gollnick".
  16. Tin Sue

    Tin Sue Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 26, 2007
    I think Gollnick's own statement, as follows, of his Biography in his Public Profile sums things up rather nicely:

    "Musical Director of the internationally famous Bladeforums.com Marching Marimba Band"

    It's time to stop directing, put away the wand, step down from the podium, and join the rest of the players in the orchestra.
  17. markksr


    Mar 15, 2007
    Spark, in considering this matter, I hope you'll take the time to read through that thread as well, as many people who spoke their minds therein are not likely to repeat themselves in this forum. But the overwhelming sentiments seem to be universal and should be no less valid whatever forum they may have been stated in.
  18. Trent Rock

    Trent Rock

    Jun 29, 2007
    Gollnick has not kept me away from The PA
    He has made it not as pleasurable
    He has acute troll phobia
    Because of this we all have to pay the price

    I count at least 3 other members who have publicly stated they stay away from THE PA because of Gollnick
    One of the reasons I paid the 25 bucks was because of the political debate pleasure I get from The PA
    It WAS one of the selling points for me as Homo Economicus
    (LOL...Did I just set my self up?? :eek: )
    I consider my self Joe Schmoe consumer
    If I feel that way===>
    Then most likely there are at least a few others who feel the same way

    He always talks about "we have determined this is troll-like behavior"
    I have a few hundred posts in The PA
    Maybe I missed the meeting or memo on what was deemed troll like by ALL The PA regulars

    If he really cares about what The PA community thinks====>
    We should make a poll
    Should Gollnick butt out of The PA?
    Even if we have to put the poll in the W & C

    If he didn't go about it like a 3rd grade teacher talking to his students
    It would be bearable

    It is also reassuring to know that several members have wanted to say something about Gollnicks disruptions for years
    Count me as another one

    I understand troll scrutiny for new PA posters
    Nit picking the rules to regular posters in The PA with 100's of posts is ridiculous
    The fact that he is not even a mod in The PA is what makes this whole issue even more troubling

    Other than that
    Zen and Phil have done a excellent job summing it all up :thumbup:
    I agree 100% with their assessments......
  19. powernoodle

    powernoodle Power Member

    Jul 21, 2004
    Mr. Gollnick: the Service and Support forum is not a place to address false charges and lies. It is for "Technical Support, Suggestions, Feedback, and Customer Service..."

    Please conform your responses to the forum rules.

    Ok, Gollnick, I'm just joking. But maybe you see where I'm coming from. :thumbup:
  20. hornshwangler


    Jan 22, 2006
    I seldom, if ever post in the Political forum as a result of Gollnick's unique approach of enforcing his interpretation of the rules. Personally, I find him obnoxious and, as others have stated previously, condescending and rude. I've not renewed my membership as a result and don't visit this forum as often as I'd like.
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