Distal taper handle

[Natlek]

Well , I did not even think about HT this kind of knive I'm afraid it will come out as banana after quenching

 

[probrwr]

If you watch the Travis Wertz videos about his surface grinder, he tapers the entire knife.

You have to be careful on the handle geometry or you will have a sharpened tang too. And the knives he does on it are kitchen knives.

He goes into the math too. Interesting series.


Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[john april]

i think as long as your thinnest edges on the bottom and back of the tang are at least .035" it should not warp.

 

[LARRYZ10]

I have done tapered tangs by the grind a hollow and then put the blade on the flat platen method, grind a hollow and put the blade on a disc grinder method, and use a Travis Wuertz surface grinding attachment method and the easiest by far is using the surface grinder. You measure the blade thickness and subtract the thickness you want at the rear of the blade and divide by two. Put feeler gauges which approximate that result under the surface plate and grind away. Then flip the blade over and put the same feeler gauge in the second spot under the surface plate which doubles the angle and grind away. It takes no time at all. I sometimes taper the front of the blade lightly in front of the ricasso and then taper the tang behind the ricasso to the rear leaving only the ricasso area flat for bolsters or guard. Scales have to be fitted slightly because of the taper but only takes a minute with a disc grinder. I wouldn't buy the Wuertz attachment only to taper tangs...I bought one because I didn't have room for a heavy large surface grinder. The Wuertz attachment makes tapered tangs so easy that I have to force myself not to taper every tang. I think a tapered tang should have at least a 4 inch taper to look good. Just my opinion. Larry

 

[MBurks]

Natlek I am finishing one now that I tapered exactly the way you are describing.

I have a 2x72 and a 1x42 and that's all, no surface grinder or disc sander. I don't know what equipment you have but with what I have now, I won't do it again. It was very difficult to get the tang flat to fit the scales.

To be clear though, my knife is tapered from heel to tip, and then I tapered the tang from spine to Riccaso as well.

So mine is tapered in two ways, if that makes sense.

I wouldn't recommend doing it at least not the way I did it.

 

[GHEzell]

The book "Knives and Scabbards (Medieval Finds from Excavations in London)" shows a very good number of medieval full-tang knives made this way before ricassos became all the rage... They weren't as concerned with perfect fits as we modern knifemakers though. I can see where getting the tang perfectly flat could be difficult.

 

[Natlek]

Natlek I am finishing one now that I tapered exactly the way you are describing.

I have a 2x72 and a 1x42 and that's all, no surface grinder or disc sander. I don't know what equipment you have but with what I have now, I won't do it again. It was very difficult to get the tang flat to fit the scales.

To be clear though, my knife is tapered from heel to tip, and then I tapered the tang from spine to Riccaso as well.

So mine is tapered in two ways, if that makes sense.

I wouldn't recommend doing it at least not the way I did it.

Well , I had to try I use file jig , disk sander and granite slab for hand sanding .Steel is 5mm thick 1.2519 .One side almost done , tomorrow if I have time I will work to finish the other side . At the end it will be distal taper from tip to butt and whole knife /blade+tang/ grind in same angle as blade /bevel/ , from both side off course ... what I fear is quenching , spine is 5mm and the edge/ whole length of the bottom side of knive ,litlle more on tang of course / will be about 0.8mm ...............??

 

[Natlek]

i think as long as your thinnest edges on the bottom and back of the tang are at least .035" it should not warp.

I hope you're right, we'll see Vertical or horizontally quenching ? I've tried both ways and somehow I am convinced that the vertical quenching is safer ?

 

[Natlek]

Most probably some of you would do this for half an hour File , disk sander , hand sanding again disk sander .......file again . I made thread in pins hole to put thick flat wood for handle while I grind on disk sander . Well now it s done ,on granite slabs lay properly from both side and it is about 0.5mm on edge and I pray that HT will go well . I drilled a few holes in the back and balance is good .Now is exactly in front of the first hole for pins. I put many hours in this blank but now I like it .Look strong, thick spine and thin edge .It is very light too . What do you think guys , worth the effort ?

 

[Mitchell Knives]

Looks great.

I grind a lot of knives like this. Seems to be lighter overall and I like the look.

 

[Natlek]

Looks great.

I grind a lot of knives like this. Seems to be lighter overall and I like the look.

Thanks !

What do you think about quenching this kind of knive ? Any problem , different from normal knife ? What I'm afraid is wrapping

 

[Bob Dahl]

I think Natlek has an interesting idea. By beveling entire knife blank, tang and blade, he eliminates need to fiddle with plunge. He lightens handle enough to make for better balance on shorter blades. Drilling angled holes in handle slabs is no harder than for normally tapered tang. Works on wider blades where edge is below handle. Not so good on narrow blades. With blade edge below bottom of handle, he can thin out or convex the edge without involving tang. Heel of blade will be sharp, a potential for slippery handle to cut user. Guard would help this, but the angles make fitting a guard more difficult.

Plungeless blade on a full tang knife will have a different look, a sleeker look - some people will like it, others won’t.

 

[Mitchell Knives]

Thanks !

What do you think about quenching this kind of knive ? Any problem , different from normal knife ? What I'm afraid is wrapping

I heat treat before grinding, so I don't have to worry about warp.

I grind wet using a "Kool Mist" system to ensure that the blade does not overheat.

 

[Natlek]

I think Natlek has an interesting idea. By beveling entire knife blank, tang and blade, he eliminates need to fiddle with plunge. He lightens handle enough to make for better balance on shorter blades. Drilling angled holes in handle slabs is no harder than for normally tapered tang. Works on wider blades where edge is below handle. Not so good on narrow blades. With blade edge below bottom of handle, he can thin out or convex the edge without involving tang. Heel of blade will be sharp, a potential for slippery handle to cut user. Guard would help this, but the angles make fitting a guard more difficult.

Plungeless blade on a full tang knife will have a different look, a sleeker look - some people will like it, others won’t.

Thanks , I'm glad that you like it Scale will lay on tang like letter V and I don t see problem to shape them when I glue them ? But it is no problem to drill hole in scale ... Same for guard , I don t see any problem to fit one if you want ? Just be aware of the order of preparation ...........

 

[shqxk]

Reduce the weight from the handle isn't always lead to better balance. Sometime you need heavy handle to make the knife feel and use great.

Both of this knife are Winkler's belt knife. The left one is skeletonized while the right wood handle has tapered tang. Everyone who has held this knife agreed that the left one just feel much better in hand because of the heavier feeling.

 

[Natlek]

Reduce the weight from the handle isn't always lead to better balance. Sometime you need heavy handle to make the knife feel and use great.

Both of this knife are Winkler's belt knife. The left one is skeletonized while the right wood handle has tapered tang. Everyone who has held this knife agreed that the left one just feel much better in hand because of the heavier feeling.

Well my friend I will lie if I say that I understand the knives. All my life I use them and important to me was that I had one when I need one , that s all Now ,on this forum I learn something new every day :thumbup:
About this knive ........I want to do something different ...new challenge for me .Balance for me is where is on knive , close to center , better ?? I found that making knive relax me ....after hard day work for living .

 

[Kevin McGovern]

Reduce the weight from the handle isn't always lead to better balance. Sometime you need heavy handle to make the knife feel and use great.

Both of this knife are Winkler's belt knife. The left one is skeletonized while the right wood handle has tapered tang. Everyone who has held this knife agreed that the left one just feel much better in hand because of the heavier feeling.

Depending on the degree of skeletonizing, couldn't they both be the same handle weight? Though micarta is heavier than most woods. I think the difference in balance on a knife that size is kind of neglegable. When I'm making 3-4" hunters I try to get the balance at the front of the scale, but I'm not going to sacrifice strength or handle shape to get there. I do make most of my knives of that size a bit less then a full grip, mostly because it looks right to me, and also because I haven't found the amount of grip area to be a hinderance.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk

 

[Natlek]

Well , this is happy Sunday ....10 minute on 800 celsius .........came out hard as glass , no wrap , no bend , no bacon edge , nothing Just in case I temper between plates , one hour on 180 celsius , quench in wather .............again on 180 celsius for one hour quench in water ...... The pictures are after the first temper

 

[tiguy7]

When you taper a tang from top to bottom, the cross sectional area does not change from front to back and neither does the strength. When you taper a tang from front to back, the cross sectional area decreases and so does the strength. You want the most strength at the front of the handle because that is where the most stress is.
When I see a knife with a horizontal tang, I scratch my head because a horizontal tang has less resistance to snapping than a vertical tang of the same cross sectional area.
For a given weight, you will have a stronger knife with a front/rear tang taper than with a top/bottom tang taper.

 

[Natlek]

Almost finished ,now sandblasting and will go to hard chrome treatment . And I like it .........Weight is 135gr. lenght is 22.5mm , spine is 5mm. and most wide on blade is 4cm. What do you think ?

But what do you think of this guys ? This / V / is kind of you call it chisel grind ....? Then why not do job on mill machine ? It is so simple to do ? Just two angle ..............?