Ditching the Fixed-Blade?

EMT_Lee · Jun 19, 2011

That's all well and good. Sure, carry what you want. I just get tired of the overwhelming voice here that if you carry a folder into the woods, you are "wrong". It's simply not true, from my experience. Can anyone think of one single time that a survival situation has been reported, and it talked about a folding knife breaking? I've never heard that story. I carry a small Sebenza, because it's what I like. I don't worry about it failing, because it's a solid knife and I'm outdoors to enjoy the outdoors, not fret about what kind of horrible circumstance might befall me.

TheUSMC2017 · Jun 19, 2011

I use my Ka Bar to hammer in tent stakes as well. Hard to do with a folder, if there are no large rocks around.

Stickinc1 · Jun 19, 2011

I use my bravo one alot in the bush for things that would destroy my endura. i would never give up a good reliable fixed blade. though i can admit that i probibly don't need a knife as thick as it is. i don't carry it incase of an emergancy though, i carry it because its what i like and will automaticly grab. if you automaticly want to go for the folder, thats what you should carry. everyone does different things different ways.

Thomas Linton · Jun 19, 2011

Native Americans, after all, hunt Polar Bear with .22's. Room for an whole range of choices.

sambo. · Jun 20, 2011

my $0.02:

i dislike folders rather intensly. i simply hate the faffing about required cleaning them off after a messy task.

my only folders are a SAK (which is somewhere in my house, i'm certain) and a Leatherman Wave. both of which i love because they are so much more practical and useful at a wider variety of tasks than a simple, single blade folder.

gimme a fixed blade any day. for a start: there's no moving parts to wear out, get jammed, require cleaning.

lambertiana · Jun 21, 2011

I went the other direction. I used to just bring folders, but one time I took a fixed blade and ended up needing it. I was trying to cross the Kern River near Junction Meadow, and the only good crossing spot within reasonable distance was blocked by an aspen that had fallen. I couldn't climb under or over it because of the branches sticking out from the trunk, and I couldn't go around to access that crossing spot because of thick brush right on the bank. So I batoned off the branches on the underside of the trunk. Since then I have always brought a fixed blade. I don't carry a heavy one (the Laconico I use for long backpacking trips weighs a little over four ounces) but there is always one with me.

Cpl Punishment · Jun 21, 2011

Personally, I see little reason to carry a folder in the outdoors.

The ONLY thing a folder does better is conceal. Concealment is not a requirement in the outdoors. And no, meeting someone out on the trail that has a psychotic fear of anything sharp does not necessitate concealment for me.

If you want to carry a folder, that's up to you, and your choice, and you need no rational reason why "I wanna" is good enough.

shunsui · Jun 21, 2011

Never go out in the middle of nowhere without something on your belt you can jam deep into anything that requires that sort of attention.

baldtaco-II · Jun 21, 2011

lambertiana said:
I went the other direction. I used to just bring folders, but one time I took a fixed blade and ended up needing it. I was trying to cross the Kern River near Junction Meadow, and the only good crossing spot within reasonable distance was blocked by an aspen that had fallen. I couldn't climb under or over it because of the branches sticking out from the trunk, and I couldn't go around to access that crossing spot because of thick brush right on the bank. So I batoned off the branches on the underside of the trunk. Since then I have always brought a fixed blade. I don't carry a heavy one (the Laconico I use for long backpacking trips weighs a little over four ounces) but there is always one with me.

lambertiana, hey

Interesting that you should chime in here because you and Ray are two of the first people that I thought of when I saw this thread:

Laconico can clearly make any type of fixed blade user he likes and do a darn fine job at the process. Yet if I recall correctly he doesn't carry any fixed blade preferring to carry that orange handled folder you were instrumental in him owning. Yet you carry a fixed blade made by him [and probably a Northfield], and both of you go to similar sorts of places and often seem to do similar sorts of stuff sometimes even both at once.

Yay for nuance in preference.

kilroy.45 · Jun 21, 2011

You know what will happen, the day you don't bring it is the day you need it.

Shotgun · Jun 21, 2011

EMT_Lee said:
That's all well and good. Sure, carry what you want. I just get tired of the overwhelming voice here that if you carry a folder into the woods, you are "wrong". It's simply not true, from my experience. Can anyone think of one single time that a survival situation has been reported, and it talked about a folding knife breaking? I've never heard that story. I carry a small Sebenza, because it's what I like. I don't worry about it failing, because it's a solid knife and I'm outdoors to enjoy the outdoors, not fret about what kind of horrible circumstance might befall me.

This is my point as well. I can't think of any survival story where the lack of a fixed blade resulted in a death. Some people are knife-centric and get the idea in their heads that if you don't have a fixed blade you're gonna die and that's just not true. I carry a fixed blade a lot of the time and even around town but it's because I like knives and not because of some perceived dire need.

carrot · Jun 21, 2011

These days the only fixed blade I can be bothered to carry with me into the woods is my ESEE Izula or a lightweight Mora. I have been thinking about ditching the fixed blade for a folder too, but both the Izula and Mora are lighter than some folders I might normally choose to carry. My back thanks me.

Noddy · Jun 21, 2011

Folder in the trouser pocket - asomething like a Fallkie U2, good stockman or a ParaMillitary

4 - 5" fixed in the top of the pack, along with a smaller scandi grind carver

Small axe, billhook or saw on the side (depending on conditions, duration and distance of the walk)

SAK Huntsman in the 'oops!' tin.

sh00ter01 · Jun 21, 2011

I think most here really doubt the abilities of folders, granted theyre not ideal, but a quality folder will hold up to some abuse.

Stickinc1 said:
I use my bravo one alot in the bush for things that would destroy my endura

I think youd be impressed with just what a Endura can do http://youtu.be/iEwydLpomTY

Would have gone a lot quicker and been less abusing using a baton.

-sh00ter

Thomas Linton · Jun 21, 2011

sh00ter01 said:
I think most here really doubt the abilities of folders, granted theyre not ideal, but a quality folder will hold up to some abuse.

I think youd be impressed with just what a Endura can do http://youtu.be/iEwydLpomTY

Would have gone a lot quicker and been less abusing using a baton.

-sh00ter

I take your point and I am impressed with my Endura's. But, no offense, I am also impressed with what stress, injury, hypothermia, hunger, illness - or a combination thereof -- does to fine motor skills.

As for a story of survival asked for above, those who die rarely write, but it was Colin Feltcher, IIRC, who wrote about using his sheath knife shoved in a crack in the rock as a step to escape being trapped on a ledge in the Grand Canyon. (Can't find where I put The Man Who Walked Through Time. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Hard to craft a Google search for this.

On the last day of this trip we visited the place where Harry Wolhuter was attacked by 2 lions, managed to kill one with his sheath knife and survived to tell the tale.

Slowly, they dragged the boat up on a beach picking their way carefully over the coral as they were without shoes and the coral was as sharp in places as broken glass. The next thing was to find food and shelter and they realized that the part of the island where they now stood was only a few hundred feet wide. The island ran north and south and they were in need of reaching the lee side for shelter from the sun and the rain. They walked across and on the way found some coconuts which they rolled along with their feet. By the time they found a suitable place, they had six coconuts in all and set about opening them with the sheath knife. It took Whittaker in his weakened condition some forty minutes to cut around the hole and into the eyes of the nut. There was little milk in them but the pulp was fairly soft and was nourishing.

I once used a knife ( a WWII 225Q from an uncle) to dig out a root fire in hard-baked clay, and I am reasonably sure a folder would not have been up to it. What would have happened had the fire burned on? Not sure I want to know. Uncontrolled fire in the Sierras in the summer is troublesome.

Gadgetaholic · Jun 21, 2011

Shotgun said:
This is my point as well. I can't think of any survival story where the lack of a fixed blade resulted in a death. Some people are knife-centric and get the idea in their heads that if you don't have a fixed blade you're gonna die and that's just not true. I carry a fixed blade a lot of the time and even around town but it's because I like knives and not because of some perceived dire need.

Don't forget about the psychological aspect - in a survival situation having the comfort of carrying a knife that you have a lot of faith in could be a very major confidence booster, which could increase your odds of survival by a significant amount.

Gadgetaholic · Jun 21, 2011

sh00ter01 said:
I think most here really doubt the abilities of folders, granted theyre not ideal, but a quality folder will hold up to some abuse.

I think youd be impressed with just what a Endura can do http://youtu.be/iEwydLpomTY

If I was in a survival situation with nothing but a SAK I could also cut down a 2 1/2" tree. But I could do it quicker and easier (with less energy expended) with my BK-9 or my ESEE Lite Machete.

That youtube video shows what NOT to do in a survival situation, as mentioned at the start you would bend the tree as much as you could and cut into the stress point - minimizing the time and energy expended as well as NOT doing something that is hard on your hand. The last thing you want to do in a survival situation is mess up your hand.

sh00ter01 · Jun 21, 2011

Thomas Linton said:
I take your point and I am impressed with my Endura's. But, no offense, I am also impressed with what stress, injury, hypothermia, hunger, illness - or a combination thereof -- does to fine motor skills.

I dont see your point. A loss of fine motor skills, is a loss of fine motor skills, fixed blade or folder. Care to elaborate?

Gadgetaholic said:
If I was in a survival situation with nothing but a SAK I could also cut down a 2 1/2" tree. But I could do it quicker and easier (with less energy expended) with my BK-9 or my ESEE Lite Machete.

Really? How much easier and less energy? The saw on my SAK Farmer rips the shit out of wood and weights nothing compared to a BK-9 or Machete. What about the energy of touting around that big blade?

My point is that its somewhat a moot point. Save a little energy here, use a little more there; use a little more energy here, save a little more there.

Gadgetaholic said:
That youtube video shows what NOT to do in a survival situation, as mentioned at the start you would bend the tree as much as you could and cut into the stress point - minimizing the time and energy expended as well as NOT doing something that is hard on your hand. The last thing you want to do in a survival situation is mess up your hand.

The video was just to show that it could be done, not the technique. Like I said, using a baton and just placing the blade for cuts would work 10 times better.

BTW, whats the difference between swinging a baton to strike the spine of a folder and a big fixed blade in terms of energy use?

Look, Im not trying to change your guys minds about what ya carry, to each their own, I myself carry a fixed blade most of the time. Like I said, a fixed blade is ideal, but dont totally discount folders, theyre more capable then you think.

-sh00ter

coaldigger · Jun 21, 2011

sicily02 said:
BobW, amen to what you said. I carry a 4.25" long 3/32" thick blade that I made with 4.5" long handle. I do not even know it is my side.
I do not have have to carry a 1/4" rambo heavy knife on my side to do any cutting chores through the day.
I do not have to reach into my pocket/pouch and pull the pocket knife out and then open the blade and then do the cutting I have to do, then fold the dang thang back up and then put it in my pocket/pouch. That there is the number 2 reason I quick using a folder for my EDC knife. Number one it I had a broken (folder) knife close on my finger and got a cut from it because the pins holding the knife together came out.
It was a good named brand and it was not cheap either.

Now I just reach down and pull my fixed blade out do my cutting and then put it back in the sheath, quick as that.
There are 2 things that come to mind they may not happen all the time, but it only take once and it could be the end of you, One is self defence and the other is falling through the ice. Getting to your fixed blade out and using it is going to be faster than with a pocket knife.

As to being to heavy and cumbersome I disagree. Fixed blades can be nice and light and easy to use and come in many blade widths too. Just get one that suits your needs and wants.

Anyhow that is my thoughts on it.

Bryan

Well said 'Ol Bud...& I'm sure if you talk real sweet to Bryan he can make you a Sweet light weight fixed blade for a good price ! I have several of his blades & they are a no non-sense knife & I have yet to recieve a knife production or custom from anyone that is as sharp as his or hold the edge as long ! Check out his HLK or small pathfinder !

Thomas Linton · Jun 21, 2011

sh00ter01 said:
I dont see your point. A loss of fine motor skills, is a loss of fine motor skills, fixed blade or folder. Care to elaborate?

Really? How much easier and less energy? The saw on my SAK Farmer rips the shit out of wood and weights nothing compared to a BK-9 or Machete. What about the energy of touting around that big blade?

My point is that its somewhat a moot point. Save a little energy here, use a little more there; use a little more energy here, save a little more there.

The video was just to show that it could be done, not the technique. Like I said, using a baton and just placing the blade for cuts would work 10 times better.

BTW, whats the difference between swinging a baton to strike the spine of a folder and a big fixed blade in terms of energy use?

Look, Im not trying to change your guys minds about what ya carry, to each their own, I myself carry a fixed blade most of the time. Like I said, a fixed blade is ideal, but dont totally discount folders, theyre more capable then you think.

-sh00ter

Very good discussion.

My point, as poorly presented as it might have been, is that impaired fine motor skills can easily lead to more stress on a tool being used, and a fixed-blade knife is typically more capable of surviving stress than a folder. If I had to baton with a less stout knife, folder OR fixed-blade, I would prefer to do it when as coordinated, calm, and focused as possible, not distracted, injured, or otherwise impaired.

I like my Gerber Sportsman's saws, old and new versions. Safer and less energy use to "buck" wood, and can even be used to split. I EDC a "Farmer" and the saw is great for it's size. If I have them . . .

I think, but cannot prove, that batoning saves energy over chopping becasue it splits the wood, rather than making a hole that eventually sections the wood. But batoning works and places less stress on the blade than chopping. Would not willingly do either with a folder in a survival situation. I have batoned with a scout pattern Camillus folder - very carefully - with no ill effects, but that was in camp with alternatives available, nothing on the line but the knife (and pride), and all systems nominal. Just think batoning is a useful alternative to have if required and safer to do with a fixed blade.

In a survival situation, all energy unnecessarily lost is a bad thing. Could make the difference.