Ditching the Fixed-Blade?

[timberweasel]

We live in a world where anything is possible, but it comes down to probability. You don't have to go out in the bush for disaster to strike; you could find yourself in a survival situation at any time, in any place. If a person wanted to be prepared for anything at all times, they'd be walking around wearing a helmet, body armour, a 200lb ruck full of supplies/materials/tools/medical gear, a parachute, SCUBA gear, a HAZMAT suit, etc and so forth... see where I'm going with this? It's ridiculous and would be completely unnecessary 99.99% of the time.

With this in mind, a folder can be a more comfortable and convenient carry option for an outdoor trip. I've done it for years. If you plan your route, know your surroundings, and have appropriate kit, a good folder will serve all of your needs. For example, if you have a tent, you're probably not going to have to build a survival shelter. If you know the area, you're probably not going to get lost and will make it back home on schedule. I've gone on several day paddles in a canoe with nothing more than some fishing gear, a folder and a lighter. Edit: And a hat.

Just my two-cents.

 

[sh00ter01]

Very good discussion.

My point, as poorly presented as it might have been, is that impaired fine motor skills can easily lead to more stress on a tool being used, and a fixed-blade knife is typically more capable of surviving stress than a folder. If I had to baton with a less stout knife, folder OR fixed-blade, I would prefer to do it when as coordinated, calm, and focused as possible, not distracted, injured, or otherwise impaired.

I believe I see what you’re saying; a fixed blade would be more resilient to carelessness/inattention that may result from fatigue, injury, etc.

Just think batoning is a useful alternative to have if required and safer to do with a fixed blade.

Safer, smarter, of course. BUT, it’s not impossible with a folder and who knows, you may only have to have it work once in order to get out of the "situation".

Like its been said, unfortunately survival situations have a way of sneaking up on you when you least expect it and I’d rather have a folder then nothing at all.

In a survival situation, all energy unnecessarily lost is a bad thing. Could make the difference.

Definitely:thumbup:

-sh00ter

 

[Gadgetaholic]

Really? How much easier and less energy? The saw on my SAK Farmer rips the shit out of wood and weights nothing compared to a BK-9 or Machete. What about the energy of touting around that big blade?

For sure, the saw on my Farmer, Ranger or OHT would make quick work of a branch or small tree, but once you are over 2.5" diameter it gets a bit harder because the saw blade on a farmer isn't much longer than the tree diameter. Once you go over 3" diameter the SAK saw is just too short. I'd happily pound my BK-9 through a 4" tree with a baton without being at all concerned about it breaking - it is a VERY tough knife.

The extra energy of carrying a larger heavier knife may be a concern or it may not, depending on what you are doing. If you decide to stay put, build a shelter, make a fire and wait for rescue (maybe you fell & broke your leg) then you don't need to worry about the weight of carrying the knife/machete. If you have to hike out and the weight of your gear is a problem then I guess you'd have to make a decision on what to carry and what to leave behind.

Safer, smarter, of course. BUT, it’s not impossible with a folder and who knows, you may only have to have it work once in order to get out of the "situation".

Like its been said, unfortunately survival situations have a way of sneaking up on you when you least expect it and I’d rather have a folder then nothing at all.

I can't disagree with that - if I had nothing but my Endura 4 on hand in a survival situation then that is what I would use to cut stuff. You gotta make the most of what you have, no good worrying about the knife you don't have.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

With this in mind, a folder can be a more comfortable and convenient carry option for an outdoor trip. I've done it for years. If you plan your route, know your surroundings, and have appropriate kit, a good folder will serve all of your needs. For example, if you have a tent, you're probably not going to have to build a survival shelter. If you know the area, you're probably not going to get lost and will make it back home on schedule. I've gone on several day paddles in a canoe with nothing more than some fishing gear, a folder and a lighter. Edit: And a hat.

Just my two-cents.

Editing out the argument for being unprepared. . .let's look at a few points.
What you say is fairly true -- for backpackers. Which is why you see (stupid, IMO) advice that a razor blade is OK to pack as your knife in backpacking rags and forums. Yep, if you stay on trail (or on the water for a paddler), bring your shelter with you, burn fossil fuel stoves instead of fire, etc you may not need a knife at all. But let's consider:

1.) There is a very strong bushcrafter presence here. Different sport where the goal is to make things in the woods, not bring things to the woods. They go out to make shelter, to practice fire skills, etc. Knife/axe/machete/kukri use is part of WHY they go out. Any arguments of "don't need this, don't do that" don't get it donw, because they do do this, and do need that to do it.

2.) Not all fixed blade are large. This:

has the same length blade as my SAK Outrider, weighs maybe 25% more (INFI is heavy), and is a whole lot more comfortable than a folder to use. Which brings us to. . .

3.) Comfort. You can make any handle geometry you want with a fixed blade, and for the guys that use knives a lot, comfort of use over long periods trumps the comfort of carrying a few less ounces.

4.) In terms of weight, A bushcrafter "pays" for his knives (including the big ones) by mot carrying a lot of things witht hem. Backpackers love to chant the mantra of ounces adding up. Works the other way, too. When you don't carry a tent, or a stove and fuel bottle, you have those ounces/pounds to "spend" on more steel.

So, what one NEEDS depends on what they intend to do, not on what someone else who does a different sport does.

 

[timberweasel]

Editing out the argument for being unprepared. . .let's look at a few points.
What you say is fairly true -- for backpackers.(...)

I believe this is the spirit of the original OP: he wants a realistic load-out and, it seems, to not be over-encumbered by his gear. There are indeed times and circumstance when folders will suffice. There is nothing wrong with carrying surplus items, but there should be limits if one is to create a realistic and/or minimalist kit.

I'm not saying anything negative about fixed blades or their uses. Actually, I do believe there are times when I would definitely prefer a fixed blade to a folder. However, I will say that folders are often more than adequate. There is more than one way to 'skin a cat' after all, and if you are presented with a challenge that is better suited to tackle with a fixed blade, I daresay you will adapt your tactics to accomplish the same goal with only your folder...

 

[maethor]

I personally carry a fixed blade (Mora) in my right cargo pocket, backed up by a small SAK. I would like to try some quality folders, but unfortunately it is illegal to carry one-hand opening folders with a lock that engages automatically when the blade is fully opened here. And what good is a knife if you can't have it with you? Fortunately, a fixed blade up to 5" is legal to carry no matter where you are, and if you can justify it (hiking, camping, scouts etc.) you can carry whatever blade length you please. So, small fixed blade and SAK for me, and when going to the woods I'll sometimes take my axe. I'm currently looking at folding saws, cross-cutting with an axe is exhausting.

Edit: The Mora has a detachable belt loop, so it stays in my pocket as long as I'm in an urban environment. The belt loop stays on my belt, so I can clip the Mora to my hip in a matter of seconds when venturing into the woods. It would be perfectly legal to belt carry it, but I don't want to draw attention/look like a weirdo/get stabbed in the back with my own knife.

 

[Myal]

I mainly carry a folder , a fair sized one , opinel 10 or okapi
I dont seem to have much issue with them gunking up , and I do slaughter and prepare goats and goat sized animals for food often enough with them , as well as eat using it , do all my knife related chores with it ..
usualy Ill take a fixed blade for back up if Im going a long way . Never needed to use it tho yet that I can recall right now tho .
Im happy tho , as long as I got a knife .. I don tmind improvising , but having a good knife beats having to improvise one anyday IMHO

 

[Shotgun]

I personally carry a fixed blade (Mora) in my right cargo pocket, backed up by a small SAK. I would like to try some quality folders, but unfortunately it is illegal to carry one-hand opening folders with a lock that engages automatically when the blade is fully opened here. And what good is a knife if you can't have it with you? Fortunately, a fixed blade up to 5" is legal to carry no matter where you are, and if you can justify it (hiking, camping, scouts etc.) you can carry whatever blade length you please.

Good to know crazy knife laws aren't unique to the US.

 

[Shotgun]

Editing out the argument for being unprepared. . .let's look at a few points.
What you say is fairly true -- for backpackers. Which is why you see (stupid, IMO) advice that a razor blade is OK to pack as your knife in backpacking rags and forums. Yep, if you stay on trail (or on the water for a paddler), bring your shelter with you, burn fossil fuel stoves instead of fire, etc you may not need a knife at all. But let's consider:

1.) There is a very strong bushcrafter presence here. Different sport where the goal is to make things in the woods, not bring things to the woods. They go out to make shelter, to practice fire skills, etc. Knife/axe/machete/kukri use is part of WHY they go out. Any arguments of "don't need this, don't do that" don't get it donw, because they do do this, and do need that to do it.

2.) Not all fixed blade are large. This:
has the same length blade as my SAK Outrider, weighs maybe 25% more (INFI is heavy), and is a whole lot more comfortable than a folder to use. Which brings us to. . .

3.) Comfort. You can make any handle geometry you want with a fixed blade, and for the guys that use knives a lot, comfort of use over long periods trumps the comfort of carrying a few less ounces.

4.) In terms of weight, A bushcrafter "pays" for his knives (including the big ones) by mot carrying a lot of things witht hem. Backpackers love to chant the mantra of ounces adding up. Works the other way, too. When you don't carry a tent, or a stove and fuel bottle, you have those ounces/pounds to "spend" on more steel.

So, what one NEEDS depends on what they intend to do, not on what someone else who does a different sport does.

I don't understand this argument. If you're out to do a certain job or sport of course you carry the tools to do it. I'm not going to go on a scuba forum and ask if I should ditch my regulator. The OP carries a fixed blade for the survival aspect according to his post and not because he's whittling spoons with it all day long.

 

[imaginefj]

From a house keeping standpoint alone a fixed blade is the way to go on outdoors stuff. I'm not big on trying to clean deer blood, fat, etc out from the pivot of a folder.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I believe this is the spirit of the original OP: he wants a realistic load-out and, it seems, to not be over-encumbered by his gear. There are indeed times and circumstance when folders will suffice. There is nothing wrong with carrying surplus items, but there should be limits if one is to create a realistic and/or minimalist kit.

And the ugly beast called a Mora will give you a fixed blade, the ergonomics of one, and weigh in at less than most folders. They are also small and easy to carry.

I don't understand this argument. If you're out to do a certain job or sport of course you carry the tools to do it. I'm not going to go on a scuba forum and ask if I should ditch my regulator. The OP carries a fixed blade for the survival aspect according to his post and not because he's whittling spoons with it all day long.

Doesn't survival entail more than walking a prepped path to sleep in your sleeping bag in a prepared shelter or tent? If you're talking survival, let's face it, you're talking about practicing something far outside the norm. Could say it's a sport of its own. Since survival basically deals with dealing with low-probability events that threaten your life with minimal gear, Do you really want to compromise on those few pieces of gear?

If you're just backpacking, then sure, carry a razor blade, cut your toothbrush in half and don't wear drawers to save weight.

 

[Troy H]

Backpacking is when you still have fuel for your stove. Survival is what happens next. And it always rains when this happens.

I'm more than happy with a folder when I'm backpacking, but I really like a good fixed blade otherwise. :thumbup: