I am looking to get into wetstones as opposed to the Lansky system I have used. The DMT stuff gets great reviews and you can get 10" stones (I have a lot of big knives). The traditional wetstones are, well, traditional. The wetstone kit I am looking at is made by sha-pu and has four stone ranging from 240 to 10000. Thoughts?
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Recommendation? DMT vs Traditional wetstone
- Thread starter upstate88
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If you have a lot of supersteels you want some diamonds. If you have simpler steels or you want to feel Japanese when you sharpen you use wetstone.
Diamonds sharpen everything but the wetstone is maybe less stressful for the simpler steels, so I use wetstone and some spyderco for these.
You want a bit of everything.
I got bigger size coarse stones diamonds/wetstone to have at home. Then, as I'm on a budget, I picked up smaller, portable higher grit finishing stuff, like spyderco and some dmt, eze lap credit card etc.
Diamonds sharpen everything but the wetstone is maybe less stressful for the simpler steels, so I use wetstone and some spyderco for these.
You want a bit of everything.
I got bigger size coarse stones diamonds/wetstone to have at home. Then, as I'm on a budget, I picked up smaller, portable higher grit finishing stuff, like spyderco and some dmt, eze lap credit card etc.
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Truly not being a jerk, but it is whetstone. Whet means to sharpen. It can be confusing since so many stones use a lubricant, especially water. Just trying to help with proper terminology as it might help in your searches and it is just good to know early on.
DMT:
Stay flat forever; no need to level them. Cut any kind of steel and does it well. No wasted effort. Grit or mesh ratings are more coarse than they seem. "Extra fine" (9 micron) produces a finish that's more coarse than a Spyderco medium.
Can be splashed with water, used with mineral oil, or used dry.
Good feedback, but can take a light touch to remove the final burr. Speaking of light touch, you DO NOT WANT to use much pressure with DMT stones. If you do, you will rip the diamonds out of the nickel plate making your plates much less useful. Ask me how I know. The XXC plate is much tougher and you can use a good amount of force on it without damage. If you are doing heavy grinding at all (or do not have the patience to spend a lot of time setting initial edges) I highly recommend the XXC.
Waterstones:
Many require soaking in water. Others only require "splashes" of water to work. All need water. No oil allowed! Oil will ruin the stones.
Will dish with use and need to be flattened. Typical practice is to flatten them before every session. This varies from stone to stone as some are very hard, some are very soft, and some are in between.
As with hardness, the grit rating and "feel" of a stone varies wildly from brand to brand and model to model. You need to study this a bit to get what you want. Many people end up with a wide variety of water stones because they are all so different in many ways. Some people even collect them.
Waterstones will cut basic steels with ease and most entry level "super steels" won't be a problem either. Anything with a lot of Vanadium will be a problem for most waterstones. S90V and S110V probably won't work on the vast majority of waterstones.
The feedback from these also varies a lot. They are generally pretty soft, which means less feedback, but there are harder stones too. I have trouble with my small set of waterstones because of this. However, the slurry that forms (or something else about the friability of waterstones) makes deburring easier. It also seems to discourage big burrs because of these properties. Dealing with burrs is easier on waterstones I think.
I think those are the major plus and minus points for these two stone types. Good luck on your decision.
Brian.
Stay flat forever; no need to level them. Cut any kind of steel and does it well. No wasted effort. Grit or mesh ratings are more coarse than they seem. "Extra fine" (9 micron) produces a finish that's more coarse than a Spyderco medium.
Can be splashed with water, used with mineral oil, or used dry.
Good feedback, but can take a light touch to remove the final burr. Speaking of light touch, you DO NOT WANT to use much pressure with DMT stones. If you do, you will rip the diamonds out of the nickel plate making your plates much less useful. Ask me how I know.
The XXC plate is much tougher and you can use a good amount of force on it without damage. If you are doing heavy grinding at all (or do not have the patience to spend a lot of time setting initial edges) I highly recommend the XXC.Waterstones:
Many require soaking in water. Others only require "splashes" of water to work. All need water. No oil allowed! Oil will ruin the stones.
Will dish with use and need to be flattened. Typical practice is to flatten them before every session. This varies from stone to stone as some are very hard, some are very soft, and some are in between.
As with hardness, the grit rating and "feel" of a stone varies wildly from brand to brand and model to model. You need to study this a bit to get what you want. Many people end up with a wide variety of water stones because they are all so different in many ways. Some people even collect them.
Waterstones will cut basic steels with ease and most entry level "super steels" won't be a problem either. Anything with a lot of Vanadium will be a problem for most waterstones. S90V and S110V probably won't work on the vast majority of waterstones.
The feedback from these also varies a lot. They are generally pretty soft, which means less feedback, but there are harder stones too. I have trouble with my small set of waterstones because of this. However, the slurry that forms (or something else about the friability of waterstones) makes deburring easier. It also seems to discourage big burrs because of these properties. Dealing with burrs is easier on waterstones I think.
I think those are the major plus and minus points for these two stone types. Good luck on your decision.
Brian.
David Martin
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will this work well for larger knives? I like 1095 and s30v.
Norton Abrasives IM200 Home Tri-Stone Sharpening System Includes 8" Coarse Crystolon, Medium Crystolon and Fine India Stones, 4-1/2 Ounce Lubricating Oil, Plastic Angle Guide and Reservoir Unit
Norton Abrasives IM200 Home Tri-Stone Sharpening System Includes 8" Coarse Crystolon, Medium Crystolon and Fine India Stones, 4-1/2 Ounce Lubricating Oil, Plastic Angle Guide and Reservoir Unit
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As said, diamond stones handle the widest variety of steels. Slow wearing steels - super steels - will require diamond stones. Until you get wear in, they will also cut coarse than their rating.
However I don't think diamonds are the idea choice for simpler carbon steels. For those I would go with oil stones or water stones.
I also don't use diamond stones unless I have too, because I don't like the feel of them, but aluminum oxide also handles most of my blades.
However I don't think diamonds are the idea choice for simpler carbon steels. For those I would go with oil stones or water stones.
I also don't use diamond stones unless I have too, because I don't like the feel of them, but aluminum oxide also handles most of my blades.
I
But for starting to see if you like it...... Get a cheap sic combo stone from your local Chinese grocery store. It'll have a greenish grey colour. I have 6 or so of them I paid $1.99 CAD eachnfor. That's like -$100 USD! They're great for a quick sharpening. If you like the free hand method then get higher quality stones
In all honestly I think that may be the finest sharpening set made. I prefer the im 313 for the larger stones but the 200 will work fine. Many people on the kitchen knife forum disagrees with my use of oil stones. I also have many Japanese water stones.will this work well for larger knives? I like 1095 and s30v.
Norton Abrasives IM200 Home Tri-Stone Sharpening System Includes 8" Coarse Crystolon, Medium Crystolon and Fine India Stones, 4-1/2 Ounce Lubricating Oil, Plastic Angle Guide and Reservoir Unit
But for starting to see if you like it...... Get a cheap sic combo stone from your local Chinese grocery store. It'll have a greenish grey colour. I have 6 or so of them I paid $1.99 CAD eachnfor. That's like -$100 USD! They're great for a quick sharpening. If you like the free hand method then get higher quality stones
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U
upstate88
that's a very nice set up and you'll be fine with 1095 and low vanadium steels. But for the higher vanadium stuff, like S30V, diamonds really are the right answer.
Grab a Norton Course Crystolon or Baryonyx Manticore and an Ultrasharp 400/1200 combination diamond stone. Stick to 8" stones. That setup will get you good sharp practical edges on just about all your steels.
Grab a Norton Course Crystolon or Baryonyx Manticore and an Ultrasharp 400/1200 combination diamond stone. Stick to 8" stones. That setup will get you good sharp practical edges on just about all your steels.
David Martin
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upstate88, that system will work on the steels you mention. With S30V steel just stop on the med. SiC stone. Your other knives can be worked on the fine India. It will last you a life time and be passed down to your kids. Use it with mineral oil. DM
I'm still of the opinion you can use the fine India on s30v. Not to sharpen but you can definitely hone an established edge on it. It may not cut the carbides but will still refine the scratch pattern. Of course you may like the extra bitey med edge even though fine India has plenty of bite
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It's been a debated (sometimes hotly) topic for years and there's a lot of discussion here on the forum about it. I am absolutely not trying to rekindle that debate. Just offering my opinion and again saying it may not be enough of a difference for folks to care.
The idea being that the ceramic abrades the matrix more than the matrix and carbides together, thereby producing something of a weaker edge. At courser grits this is probably not as much of an issue. I also wonder about the wear on the stones.
The idea being that the ceramic abrades the matrix more than the matrix and carbides together, thereby producing something of a weaker edge. At courser grits this is probably not as much of an issue. I also wonder about the wear on the stones.