Recommendation? DMT vs Traditional wetstone

Upstate, both of those will work great. I own the same system, just an earlier box and I have a smaller 2"X 6" diamond plate in fine, for a final
touch if needed. DM
TRi-honeII.jpg
 
Vicv said:
Obsessed with Edges Obsessed with Edges
I definitely agree with you an India stone is a poor choice for sharpening these steels. In this case though the sharpening is being done with the med crystolon. The India fine is only being used for final honing. In your example you were reprofiling which those Lansky stones were unsuited. As the final polish though for those last few swipes it would've done fine.
India stones do tend to glaze over especially the fine one. It's what you get with a hard, tough, and smooth binder. They will glaze over even with 1084. A quick lapping with some 50-100 sic loose grit on a flat surface fixed that and you'll barely remove any material from it
With these steels diamond may be the way to go but I just don't like the use of or economy of diamond plates. The India stone may glaze but you can always unglaze it. You can't sharpen diamonds back up when they dull. At that point your $100 plate is a paperweight. My $30 stone still has 50 years of life left
Just one man's opinion
Click to expand...

Not trying to nit pick, but an UltraSharp 8"x3" single grit stone is about $40 and for the casual sharpener will last for many years.
 
Eli Chaps Eli Chaps Fair point. I will admit I can be biased sometimes about this stuff due to availability. I'm in Canada so that "cheap" $40 plate would cost me $120 after shipping and exchange rate. That's if it doesn't get customs charges which could add $40-$60 more. There is no cheap and mail order here. For less than that I could get an atoma plate at my local Lee Valley tools. Same as these newer resinoid diamond stones. Prohibitively expensive.
The tri hone kit the op is looking at is $400 here. I got lucky and paid $10 at a yard sale
I still stick with diamonds are not necessary for s30v or any steel for that matter. That doesn't mean you should not get some if you want. I have a 13k water stone that is completely useless to me and yet I have it!
So enjoy what you like but lets not push aside hard facts and evidence either
 
David Martin David Martin
I've seen you post your gear before and I love your setup. Looks so matter of fact. And I like the old style Norton kit. Mine is newer
 
Vicv said:
Eli Chaps Eli Chaps Fair point. I will admit I can be biased sometimes about this stuff due to availability. I'm in Canada so that "cheap" $40 plate would cost me $120 after shipping and exchange rate. That's if it doesn't get customs charges which could add $40-$60 more. There is no cheap and mail order here. For less than that I could get an atoma plate at my local Lee Valley tools. Same as these newer resinoid diamond stones. Prohibitively expensive.
The tri hone kit the op is looking at is $400 here. I got lucky and paid $10 at a yard sale
I still stick with diamonds are not necessary for s30v or any steel for that matter. That doesn't mean you should not get some if you want. I have a 13k water stone that is completely useless to me and yet I have it!
So enjoy what you like but lets not push aside hard facts and evidence either
Click to expand...

Thanks for the good civil discussion Vic. You don't have to look very hard to discover I am far from the definitive source on sharpening. I always have a lot more questions than answers! :)

That shipping is outrageous and I'm sorry you have to endure that. I recently was eyeballing a knife out of France but the VAT and shipping almost doubled the cost so I had to pass.
 
Thank you. We're all here to learn and we all need to keep learning. And I enjoy good discussion and this is all for fun debate I have no ego on the line
Yes shipping is outrageous. I looked at cktg for some diamond spray. $55usd so $73cad shipping for me for a $20 2oz spray bottle. Yet I just ordered a knife from Japan and $7 shipping.
Anyway I hope the op enjoys whatever he buys. I still recommend a hardware sic stone to start off. He may not end up liking freehand sharpening and this way he's not out $2-300
 
ace said:
I agree with most of it, but it is interesting that you wrote that feedback is good on diamond plates and not on water stones. I think you are using feedback differently from usual when talking about sharpening on stones. In general most agree that feedback, the feel when sharpening sucks on diamond plates, it is very unpleasant. On the other hand good water stones are a pleasure to sharpen on with creamy feedback, both the feel and the sound are great benefits of quality waterstones.
Click to expand...

What I mean by feedback: My ability to detect that the bevel is flat on the stone/plate. With a diamond plate, it's very solid and easy to detect whether the edge bevel is flat, or digging in, or riding on the shoulder.

With really hard waterstones, the feel is similar. But I find that the water can trick me a little and inhibit the feedback. On softer waterstones, I tend to dig into the stone much more often than I would like (angle too high). I'm not the worlds most gifted freehand sharpener. I'm not even close. :)

I don't know if this is a feedback problem (which I originally was saying) or if it's simply that my angle control is poor and the waterstone punishes me by allowing the blade to dig in. ...and the diamond plate doesn't punish me as much because the edge can't dig in and scoop out part of the stone.

I've had overall better results from diamond plates than water stones. When I'm really concentrating and doing it right, I get really nice looking (and performing) edges from water stones. Though, to be honest, I haven't used my water stones in more than 3 years now, so I'm going based on older memories.

Brian.
 
I have chosera and suehiro stones from 600 to 20k for razors. I never use them for my knives. I always use diamonds. Either dmts or recently the venev bonded stones. They cut everything easily. And you can get extremely good performance out of a single 325 grit DMT and a balsa or leather strop with some cbn or diamond spray. Very easy and simple. And this edge will cut arm hair EASILY.
 
Sorry if this is a little off topic but I'm considering going to diamonds but wondering if they produce usable edges at the get go?I do know they do need breaking in but if I get a stone I do like to know they are usable at the first sharpening.The ones I've dabbled with in the past have left ragged hacksaw edges even with light pressure.My oilstones have given me sharp edges from the first use. Your input would be appreciated.
 
Robert Ptacek said:
Sorry if this is a little off topic but I'm considering going to diamonds but wondering if they produce usable edges at the get go?I do know they do need breaking in but if I get a stone I do like to know they are usable at the first sharpening.The ones I've dabbled with in the past have left ragged hacksaw edges even with light pressure.My oilstones have given me sharp edges from the first use. Your input would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

For what seemed like similar impressions to yours, it took me a while to calibrate my sense for using diamond hones. For quite some time, I also had the impression edges produced were too rough coming off of them. Part of that was in initially assuming the choice of grit should approximately match what I'd been used to. But, since diamonds cut so much more deeply for a given grit, as compared to other stone types, an adjustment needs to be made for that. This means using a finer diamond grit than I would initially be inclined to choose. For example, to emulate the finish coming off something like a Fine India stone (rated ~360-grit, give or take), a finer diamond should be chosen, like a Fine DMT (600), or sometimes even an EF DMT (1200). A 325-mesh DMT (Coarse) will produce scratch patterns much, much coarser than the 360-grit Fine India. More so, on steels that aren't very wear-resistant in the first place, because diamond will cut them even more deeply at the same light pressure.

Once I figured out the touch for them, and also how each diamond grit performed, I realized it wasn't so much an issue of them needing break-in, to perform as I expected. This realization has been confirmed in subsequent new diamond hones I'd purchased, after learning the 'touch' on others I'd used for a while. At Coarse, Fine and finer grit, my DMT hones, at least, have performed well as I expected, on their first day of use.

I still feel DMT is much more consistent than other similarly rated & priced diamond hones, in the sense that they cut very cleanly from early on, and edges produced on them don't need much, if any, further refinement or cleaning up. Can't say the same for other brands I've tried, some of which leave more burring issues behind. This isn't to say others aren't pretty good as well. It's just that I keep noticing DMT has been consistently better.
 
Last edited:
Obsessed with Edges said:
For what seemed like similar impressions to yours, it took me a while to calibrate my sense for using diamond hones. For quite some time, I also had the impression edges produced were too rough coming off of them. Part of that was in initially assuming the choice of grit should approximately match what I'd been used to. But, since diamonds cut so much more deeply for a given grit, as compared to other stone types, an adjustment needs to be made for that. This means using a finer diamond grit than I would initially be inclined to choose. For example, to emulate the finish coming off something like a Fine India stone (rated ~360-grit, give or take), a finer diamond should be chosen, like a Fine DMT (600), or sometimes even an EF DMT (1200). A 325-mesh DMT (Coarse) will produce scratch patterns much, much coarser than the 360-grit Fine India. More so, on steels that aren't very wear-resistant in the first place, because diamond will cut them even more deeply at the same light pressure.

Once I figured out the touch for them, and also how each diamond grit performed, I realized it wasn't so much an issue of them needing break-in, to perform as I expected. This realization has been confirmed in subsequent new diamond hones I'd purchased, after learning the 'touch' on others I'd used for a while. At Coarse, Fine and finer grit, my DMT hones, at least, have performed well as I expected, on their first day of use.

I still feel DMT is much more consistent than other similarly rated & priced diamond hones, in the sense that they cut very cleanly from early on, and edges produced on them don't need much, if any, further refinement or cleaning up. Can't say the same for other brands I've tried, some of which leave more burring issues behind. This isn't to say others aren't pretty good as well. It's just that I keep noticing DMT has been consistently better.
Click to expand...


Thank You for your response!I had been thinking of a DMT coarse/fine but but you now have me contemplating a fine/extra fine BUT what has kept me from that is I've heard that the extra fine is plagued with large grit contaminating the stone and causing "catches" during your stroke.Or is this overblown?
 
I have 2X6 inch DMT plates mounted on Edge-Pro blanks kin coarse, medium, fine and extra fine.

For however much or little, it's worth,I find myself using the EF more than the other 3 combined.
 
Robert Ptacek said:
Thank You for your response!I had been thinking of a DMT coarse/fine but but you now have me contemplating a fine/extra fine BUT what has kept me from that is I've heard that the extra fine is plagued with large grit contaminating the stone and causing "catches" during your stroke.Or is this overblown?
Click to expand...

Of the EF DMT hones I have, I haven't noticed any of the issues with larger grit contamination. I have the EF in 6" x 2" Dia-Sharp and smaller sizes, including Dia-Fold, 'credit card' hone, 1" x 4" pocket hone & 'paddle' hone. I've heard of others seeing issues with larger plates; but I can't speak to how often that might actually occur.
 
[QUOTE="Vicv, post: 19540524, member: 302726
Anyway I hope the op enjoys whatever he buys. I still recommend a hardware sic stone to start off. He may not end up liking freehand sharpening and this way he's not out $2-300[/QUOTE]
Vic, yes the Norton IM-313 Tri-hone is expensive. It's built to last and has large roomy stones. You have to sharpen lots of knives to justify it. Ankerson and I only sharpen to 300-400 grit on
a SiC stone. Thus, we don't touch the micron size of a vanadium carbide. Which to really start shaping those carbides one would have to use an EE Fine diamond plate. Or some grit near that. For a utility edge a lower grit will work fine. DM
 
David Martin David Martin I agree I have an im313 it's a fantastic bit of kit. I also only go to ~400 grit with my using knives so carbide cutting isn't an issue
 
Vicv said:
Eli Chaps Eli Chaps Fair point. I will admit I can be biased sometimes about this stuff due to availability. I'm in Canada so that "cheap" $40 plate would cost me $120 after shipping and exchange rate. That's if it doesn't get customs charges which could add $40-$60 more. There is no cheap and mail order here. For less than that I could get an atoma plate at my local Lee Valley tools. Same as these newer resinoid diamond stones. Prohibitively expensive.
The tri hone kit the op is looking at is $400 here. I got lucky and paid $10 at a yard sale
I still stick with diamonds are not necessary for s30v or any steel for that matter. That doesn't mean you should not get some if you want. I have a 13k water stone that is completely useless to me and yet I have it!
So enjoy what you like but lets not push aside hard facts and evidence either
Click to expand...
If you're close to the border you can have goods sent to a US receiving centre, go down and pick up your package, all legally.
 
True but with exchange is still not really worth it. And I don't have a passport. Thank you though
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top