Do any of you not take orders?

Tanguay Custom Knives

Tanguay Custom Knives

Joined
Jun 15, 2003
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I'm interested to know if any of you other makers do not take orders and why? If you don't, how does it work for you? Are your sales just as good?

Here is why I ask. I am a part time knifemaker, and a full time Shift Supervisor in a power plant. I work a rotating 12 hour swing shift, plus I work a few extra days a month on special projects, filling in for other Supervisors, etc. Normally I work 40-50 hrs per week.

On my days off, I make knives 6-10 hours a day. I'm doing pretty good, and my backlog of orders currently extends into July or August. About two months ago I stopped giving due dates. It was too hard to predict when my knives would be completed. This was partly because I always offer head of the line privileges to deployed troops, and also due to the fact that I have a life too! Cars, the house, a camp, kids, a wife- all need my attention too, sometimes in unpredictable ways, and at imperfect times.

A few months ago I was very busy, and falling behind on orders. Suddenly, I was sick with the flu (for over a week) and ended up in the hospital. I was totally stressed out about meeting my deadlines, which were starting to slip. A few customers started to grumble. The fun really started to run out of this. I simply quit giving deadlines, and found myself much happier. My standard answer has become "as soon as possible". Prospective customers, however, are not that enthused about it. Most continue to press me for a due date, then email me with "have you started my knife yet" questions. A few, I never hear from again.

This past weekend I was working on a few new designs as well as trying to finish up some orders. I was also trying to inventory and list some knives for sale out of my collection. I had to literally force myself to work on the custom orders (knives I've made a dozen or more of in the past). All I wanted to do was work on the new designs. My wife was also after me to take care of a few chores, and that just added fuel to the fire. Feeling like I was being pulled in too many directions at once, I guess I might have barked a little bit.

After I settled down (and completed her chores!), she suggested that I just stop taking orders all together, make what I like, or feel like making, and just sell those knives. Sounds awful tempting, especially since we're about to start building a new house and shop over the next year!

I was wondering if any of you guys ever faced the same or similar dilemma. Care to share?
 
I quit taking orders, for the most part, a couiple of years ago, much for the same reasons you stated. While I was not taking deposits or holding customers' monies, I always felt guilty about getting behind. When I ruptured a couple of disks in my back and then my wife developed a terminal brain tumor, I had lots of time to reflect on what I wanted to do in the future.

I came to much the same conclusion: the fun was gone. I do this because I enjoy it. When I was stressed about being behind, I didn't need that stress. I already had plenty. I contacted all my customers with whom I had orders and told them what was going on. I gave them the choice of being patient until everything worked out, or having someone else do their knife. Some stuck by me, some went elsewhere, but I no longer had to worry about it.

Currently I take orders from existing customers, or if I like a design, think it might be fun or just a challenge to expand my skills. The last can still be frustrating but it's a learninmg experience that I chose to undertake. Otherwise, I make what I want to make.

I am at the point in my knifemaking carrer where the orders I do are for people I know, for the most p[art, have come back for more, and I want to do a really good job for them. If it's a knife I really like the looks of, I may even do some extra work on it for free, just because I like the knife and I want to. It may not be the best from a business standpoint, but it makes my customers happy and they keep coming back. The satisfaction I get from that offsets any "loss" some might think was there.

I spent a career in law enforcement. That's one of the few jobs in the world where the customer is always wrong. It sometimes affects my sales pitch, but I have no problem telling someone that I'm really not interested and that they need to go elsewhere.

My new wife is a tremendous help and partner in my business. She does my sheath work and mosaic pins. That alone adds a lot of joy to what I do. I'm having more fun now, as a knifemaker, than I have in 15 years. The fun is back and is here to stay. I want to make sure of that, so I'm really selective about what I commit to do. And completion dates are always subject to change. That's the nature of the beats.

Today I get to choose between working on knives or putting in the new toilet that I had to order. The toilet wins. Once it's successfully installed, I'm going to discharge a magazine of 230g ball into the old one, to make sure it never plugs again. After that, it's back to knives, but cheerfully so.

If you aren't enjoying what you are doing, it's time to regroup and figure out why, then fix it.

My 2 cents worth.

Gene
 
Gene,
Your 2 cents is worth a million bucks. Thanks alot for sharing that.

I don't take any money up front either. Like you, I just feel guilty about falling behind.

Thanks again, Great post.

Scott
 
I no longer take orders either. I have found that I enjoy my life when I'm able to work at my pace doing what I enjoy rather than having to force myself or the steel to produce. I guess there are some that would call my efforts simply a hobby, but whatever they call it--I could care less. :jerkit:

I found that responding to those creative urges in design or modification comes rarely and when they hit you they must be acted upon or forever lost. Nothing quite like pursuing your passion when you feel the creative juices flowing.

I do manage to keep about three blades available if someone simply must have one now, but then again, if I don't think he'll take care of it--he doesn't get it.--my two cents worth--Dan
 
I am about to stop taking orders as a general service and only take on a few by selection (my selection). I have felt the pressures described above and don't care for it. Afterall Knifemaking is my therapy after working in aircraft 40 plus hours a week. I still want to do some special ordered projects because it many times makes me stretch or do some work that really pleases me. I know it is not going to set well with some folks but I got to take care of my sanity....no one else is. I am more inclined to do special order stuff in the winter, which is when I make the most of my knives. But when summer comes around, I would rather spend some time with my son and grandsons fishing. What a lot of folks don't understand is the amount of emails there are to try and keep up with. I'm not complaining, it is just a fact I as well as the other makers have to deal with and it takes time.
I'm starting to ramble here, bottom line is you have to control your pressure level and I'm a believer that selling more than you can deliver is worse for your reputation than not taking orders and just selling what you want to make.
 
Hi Scott,
You live on the Penobscott River and are making knives in addition to a full time job and family? There are fish in that river that need catching......

Seriously, I do take orders. But no deposits and currently, approx. 6-8 months or so wait time. I also try to keep knives in the possession of a number of fine dealers, and am not doing that as well as I'd like to do.

I also have some priorities that cannot come second to anything else, elderly parents who may or may not need help right away. (My wife works outside the home. I work at home, many hours a week as a knifmaker, a few hours a week at other required work.)

It is much more comfortable to limit taking orders, but I pretty much won't turn down a request and don't feel right to turn down a request especially from a 2nd, or more time buyer, regardless of where they purchased the first one of my knives.

I will say one thing, If you are going to fall behind, communicate with your customers. It is one of the easiest things to say and to actually do, but it is also uncomfortable to anticipate having to tell your customer you will be a bit later that originally intended regardless of how much you couldn't help it.
Maybe you need to just give yourself a bit of potential lost time when you set your completion date estimates....You are the one employee, it's not your regular job where there is backup somewhere....If the one employee can't work, the business comes to a screeching halt...if you don't have any built in potential lost productivity time, it can be quite stressful, as you have experienced.
Good Luck,
 
Knifemaking is my fulltime occupation allthough I do have a few other irons in the fire that sometimes bring work my way.

I stopped taking ordrs in July 2006 when I seriously injured my finger in an industrial accident.

I used the time off to do some cost accounting and it seems that a knife made to a custom order takes about 30-50% longer to make and deliver than the SAME knife made not to order. The amount of time needed to process the order, communicate with the customer, etc etc is tremendous. Answering 20 emails at even 10 minutes each is over 3 HOURS of work right there.

I may resume taking customs orders again, but the rpices for custom knives will be substantially higher than for stock knives or knives bought at shows. I may also start doing a notification list thing for interested customers who may then buy the knife or pass as they choose.

All in all, for knives costing les than about $1000, custom orders are not financially practical.

For those making knives as a HOBBY... folks, if it ain't fun, cut it loose. Isn't WORK enough stress wthout breaking your balls for your hobby too? Seriously.

If you're having fun taking orders, then keep a'goin... if not, try another system.

A hobby should always be kept in perspective as a hobby; an occupation must also be kept in perspective as a business.
 
Gene, Tangus, Jim, John, Kevin and Kerry,

Thanks alot for your opinions, comments, ideas, and for sharing your experiences here. You ALL make alot of sense. I can feel the frustration and anxiety already starting to evaporate. A concurrent thread over in the GBU just clinched it for me. I don't open my big mouth until the end.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462411

No more orders, for a while anyway. I'll finish up the ones I have in my book, and that's it. I look forward to experimenting with new designs, ideas, etc.

Coming up with a new idea, or an improvement on an old, and working with other makers and professionals, like the two knives I have posted in the gallery right now, is where I get my real satisfaction. I'll make and sell whatever it is I feel inspired to make.

Thanks again for your help.

John, You are right. I need to take some time off and take the kids fishing!
Kevin, I read you loud and clear. Those emails can be a killer! Time is money, and God knows I'm not getting rich here. I think Paypal, Central Maine Power, the USPS and UPS are the only ones who are!

Scott
 
Scott, I'm still taking orders but usually when tell a potential customer the wait time they don't place an order. Some don't mind the wait but the orders have slowed since my backlog has increased. I'm up front with the wait time and if I get behind i just let them know. I'm lucky with my regular job I can take off and leave early whenever I want. I haven't worked a 40 hour week in over a year and a half. I put more time into making knives. I don't mind the pressure. I've worked that way most of my life.
Scott
 
Scott, you make some great looking knives. I can see why a customer would be willing to wait a very long time for one. I hope I can find a balance too.

I just updated my web page to indicate I'm not accepting any new orders for the time being. It feels very liberating. I wish my job was more flexible like yours. Unfortunately, its anything but. I usually find myself there more than I want to be. Especially lately.
 
I am ask this question a lot. And I have a very good answer that is long winded, and applies to a lot of situations. But I'm not going to give in here and now. Look guys, you are not professional cutlers. This has nothing to do with the quality of your work, but rather the quantity. If you enjoy making knives, make knives. If you don't, don't. If you don't like the pressure of taking orders, and being behind. Don't take orders. I still take orders, but I'm currently up to 8 years behind on some styles. Does it bother me? It use to. Now I just see it as job security. And these days, this cam mean a lot. Bob Loveless once told me, make what pleases you. It is the only way to be happy in this business. If this means not taking orders, and only making your own designs, when you want. So be it. This is what a hobby should be. If you you want to be a professional cutler. Get to work! And stop complaining!!! Haa!!! Haa! But don't forget to enjoy your life. For me. Life is Knives! http://knifelegends.com/ Featured Artist
 
I quit taking orders a few years back. I used to think the more orders I had on the books, the better I was. The problem is that is it just sucked the fun right out of it. I didn't like doing some one elses design. I didn't like the back and forth process that was never charged for. I didn't like the 'just checking in' emails. I didn't like the dead line. I didn't like the lack of freedom to do what I wanted. I didn't like how some (only a couple really) turned into a boss. I'm a boss at work, I have plenty of bosses over me at work. I don't need another damn boss in my life. I didn't like taking deposits. I didn't like taking a chance the client would balk when I delivered.

Now I get to experiment with designs I never would have had the time to before. They all sold. I enjoy stepping into shop with a clean slate. I understand and totally respect a full timer having to take orders for the security and if I was full time, I guess I'd just understand about all that and suck it up - maybe....
 
If you have conviction with what you do, and you continue to produce good knives, you'll sell them, no problem. You will build the business you envision in your mind, so you can do as well, if not better, not taking orders as you can taking them. For a part-timer, it seems like not taking orders is the way to go.
 
I slowed down making knives in the past 5 years making knives, to the point where I was only making 1 or 2 a year. I was spending all my time focused on making damascus. Well 4 months ago I told my boss to roll it tight and shove it. So now I'm making knives again. I don't plan on taking orders for knives. For the damascus steel yes, not for knives. I've never had a problem moving my knives, so I'm making knives for fun. I sold one this weekend to a guy who really loved the design and execution. After such a long time without making many knives I have a bunch of cool designs I want to try.
I went through the order backlog thing a few years back and I hated it too. I'm having a blast and its fun to take the first piece of a new damascus pattern and make a knife from it.
The mentality of the knife buyer(along with everyone else) is changing. We all want it now, and when we can't get it now we are unhapppy. You can take advantage of this change by offering knives for sale only after they are finished, in other words don't take orders. It is a cool idea to have a list of customers who like your stuff and what style they like. This way you can message them when a knife is done and if they like it then both of you are happy.
Just a thought.
Thanks,
Del
 
So Mike, what does it take to be a professional cutler. I'd love to hear your standard. I don't recall complaining, but rather simply my business philosophy. I'm glad you made the knife legends, good for you. That clearly is an honor.

However, if life is knives, then you are sadly missing some really important things. I've been the workaholic in another career. I won't do it again. There are things in life that are far more important than knives, unless one has a really narrow world view.

Gene
 
I think you're missing the point Mike Lovett was trying make, which is that there are BIG differences between a "professional cutler," – defined as a person who makes their living producing and selling knives – and a "hobby cutler" defined as someone who makes and perhaps sells knives as a hobby.

I agree totally with Mike on this one too.

If you're making knives as a friggin' hobby, why stress out over it?? If taking orders is stress or interferes with your regular job, cut it loose. If making knives as a hobby isn't providing an enjoyable diversion for you, cut the whole thing loose and taking up sailing whatever as a hobby. A hobby should be fun and relaxing. That's the point.

On the other hand, if you're a professional cutler making knives for profit as a job, then your most imprtant consideration has to be making a living. Just like any other job.

I just returned from Solingen where I spent several days in a well known "knife factory." They have a grinding room where a bunch of people sit at grinders just like one of mine and spend the whole shift grinding blades by hand. Nobody is sitting there for artistic considerations. It's their job, not their hobby. They are professinals and are expected to grind top quality blades every day.

I've made knives as a hobby and for several years now as a profession. You can't approach a profession like a hobby and I see no reason to let a hobby get stressed up to the level of a job.

After I spend 8-14 hours a day operating my knifemaking business I do other things in my copius free time for relaxation. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy making knives or that it's not a "rewarding" occupation. It's just the nature of things.
 
Thanks Kevin. You have been around long enough to know exactly what I mean. Gene What I mean by Professional, Is just like any other profession. I'm not talking quality, or love of the craft. I'm talking making knives as a profession. What puts bread on the table, and cloths on the families back. Nothing else is intended. It isn't an emotional word, but rather a descriptive word. And no, I am not missing a thing. I have been in law enforcement, Owned an archery shop and shooting range, spent my time in the Air Force, and through it all, I have always loved fine knives. To be able to to turn my love of knives, and my hobby of making them into an ongoing business is fantastic. I and many others have toiled countless hours at uninspired jobs that we hated, just to get by. What could be better than doing what you love, and earning a living at the same time. But it does take dedication, and like anything else compromises. Only you can judge what these can, and will be. Good Luck. Mike
 
Here's my $.02 from a fan and hobbyist's point of view... I don't see anything wrong at all, when a maker simply lists knives he has available. I want to see, what he WANTS to make. Because I believe it's more interesting that way, and will be his best stuff.

I quit playing in bands when it stopped being fun, simple as that. I still play and don't mind if no one hears it but me.
 
I stopped taking orders last year, it was a good decision. I was getting stressed with trying to keep up with demand, manage an order book, reply to emails and try to keep the quality of work as good as I can. I find mot knives I make are better if they are finished to my satisfaction and not to meet a deadline.
 
My knifemaking is not a hobby. It's a business that helps pay the bills. My other job supplements my income and provides health benefits. My kids are grown which also helps. I've been in the knife business for 10 years moving from a dealer of factory knives to a maker. If it's a business you have to be committed more so then a hobby.
Scott
 
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