Do the folks on the porch pay attention to blade steels ?

Do you pay attention to the what steel your blade is made of

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To answer the OP’s question, I pay attention to blade steel.
The first knife I bought was a Case stockman, I never was really happy with the edge holding of it, What that knife taught me was to never buy a single blade knife, pun intended one blade would not cut it for a days work. Stockmans ruled.

After that Case I tried Buck, Old Timer, Camillus. I had steels categorized, Stainless was good for hunting and fishing. For a work knife 1095 would hold an edge better.
At the time I didn’t know anything about steel, I just had my own experiences to go on.

Bladeforums has taught me a lot about steel and that has opened up a whole new world of knife patterns. I’ve got a D2 single blade barlow in my pocket as I type this. One blade, two blades, it doesn’t have to be a stockman anymore.

I still like and carry 1095 but I always back it up with a stainless like the Indian River Jack.
I prefer steels like 440C, 154CM, CPM 154. With D2 being a favorite partly because it’s easier to find in a traditional and partly because I never have to sharpen it half way through the day.

I’ve learned all steel is easy to sharpen, some steels are just harder to profile.
Over the years I’ve learned what I like in a knife, size, weight, pattern, blade shape. There’s a lot of boxes to check before I buy. Steel is one of those boxes.

I have a rule when it comes to buying a knife, If the maker doesn’t state the steel and hardness I won’t even look at it. Terms like CV, Tru-Sharp, surgical stainless, high carbon stainless etc are not the name of steels.
 
Given a choice, I will usually prefer carbon steel. Beyond that, I like to know what the steel is, but it almost never affects my decision to buy or not.
 
I agree with the above about companies who do not simply state the steel.

I pay close attention to steel, and have an admitted double standard when it comes to traditional and modern folders. For traditional knives, I really like a carbon steel that will patina, sharpen up very easily, and not fight me too much when I profile an edge. For modern knives, I'm looking for S35Vn, CPM-154, CTS-XHP, ZDP 189, and anything kind of uncommon that will hold an edge for a long time.

But in my enjoyment of traditionals, I've come to love how easily I can touch up a blade on a stop or some fine rods. No work at all, and it gives a charming character to the edge as it contrasts to a patina'd blade.
 
It is hardly a secret that I pay attention to blade steel.
It is not a deciding factor, but it is a factor when I buy a knife.

Like Gary, I started with carbon steel, then switched to stainless. I much prefer stainless over non-stainless steel. I will seldom buy an expensive (GEC) non-stainless knife. But I will buy Case CV at Case's lower price point.

I prefer carbide containing alloys (Alloys with Carbon content greater than 0.77%) over non-carbide containing alloys. They hold an edge better for the chores for which I commonly use a knife. I also prefer 440A over 420HC if they are both hardened to the same hardness. But 440A is more expensive to make knives out of than is 420HC, so nobody in the US uses it anymore that I have seen.

I prefer PM alloys over melt alloys. Now it's REALLY hard to find a PM alloy in a traditional knife. And the few that I have seen have had other negatives which overrode the use of the better alloy. (I have to like the rest of the design before I buy a knife, no matter what the blade steel.) So aside from a Buck 501 lockback in S30V, I have no traditional knives in PM alloys. I do have blades in PM alloys, but they don't get mentioned in this forum.
 
Hickory n steel said:
I've noticed that people here on the porch don't really seem concerned with blade steels...
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The subject of blade steels doesn't seem to come up that often on the Porch, it's true - but speaking for myself, the type of steel (and heat treatment, if known), strongly affects my knife buying selections.

I will often purchase a knife, just to try a different type of steel, and perhaps one overarching theme of my knife accumulation, is the variety of different steels - maybe twenty, or more different tool steels, stainlesses, and simple carbons.

I think all steels have their place - assuming quality heat treatment. I certainly enjoy the 0.7%C simple carbon at about 55 HRc, I currently EDC in a variety of A. Wright & Son knives, or Case's 420HC 'Tru-sharp', as much as I like some of the recent particle metallurgy tool steels, in their place.

But of course, part of the fun is matching blade steels with different tasks to suit their best capabilities.

In terms of quality materials available, and precise heat treating equipment, as well as access to methods such as the various sub-zero quenching and cryo temper cycling methods for particular steels, I think we are in a Golden Age of fine edgeware right now.

black mamba said:
It's always seemed odd to me that as much as traditional knifers like 1095 for it's fine edges, we don't see stainless offerings in 13c26/AEB-L for the same reason.
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I completely agree, Jeff: AEB-L/13c26 would make an excellent traditional pocket knife stainless - AEB-L even fits the Trad timeframe: patented by Uddeholm as a stainless razorblade steel in 1928, IIRC. AEB-L is sometimes known as 'the stainless steel for carbon steel lovers.'

12c27 is also a great pocketknife steel IMO, for fine edge taking, easy sharpening, and being designed to bend, or roll when pushed past its limits, rather than chip or fracture - which makes edge repair much easier, if necessary.

Personally I don't think there's any reason why traditional pocket knife manufacturers and makers shouldn't be able to expand their envelope of bladesteel selections a bit.

Here's another few things I wouldn't mind seeing as different options in future:

-Carbon steel bladed knives, with stainless backsprings and liners, for long term durability. I like a nicely patina'd blade as much as the next person here - what I don't like so much, is the constant threat of corrosion, over time, on the insides of backsprings, and carbon steel liners, and verdigris leaching from the nooks and crannies of brass fittings.

-Japanese manufactured Western-style Traditionals using the Hitachi high carbon cutlery steels, particularly the Blue Paper (Aogami) series. Most Porch folk will have a Higonokami with laminated Blue #2 steel - how cool would it be to have Aogami Super in a well made traditional?
If you balk at the idea of Japanese steel in an old English, or American pattern, is it really that different from steel being imported from Sweden, as it commonly was in the old days?

-More tool steels in working knife patterns: how about a CPM Cruwear Soddie, an O1 Barlow, a CTS-XHP Stockman, a K390 knife based off a Smith's Key pattern:eek::D(or a D2 Lambsfoot;)). Well, why not?

-For that matter, why not take one of the strengths of Traditionals: the 'toolbox' of different blade shapes and edges, and try some different steels in the same knife? One of the vaunted features of the Stockman and Cattle knife pattern, for example, is having a freshly sharpened blade in reserve and a couple of working blades, which can all be tuned in their sharpening in different ways, if you're so inclined. Why not have a knife with say, an AEB-L clip and spey, and a D2 sheepsfoot?

Now, I'm thinking aloud a bit here, and certainly not diminishing the current prevalent steels, or suggesting they be used any less - but if we have such a plenitude of handle materials available, then why not adapt and enjoy some of the great blade steels we have access to, today?:)
 
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jc57 said:
Part of the reason is that the small number of manufacturers of traditional-style knives don't really provide us with much choice.

Also, people in this sub-forum are only allowed to talk about traditional knives, so there's not much to talk about, steel-wise. That's why it may appear that nobody is concerned about it.
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This. To be honest although I only carry traditionals, my collection doesn't grow much due to the insistence on lower ended steels, especially given the pricing. I carry a knife for cutting with. Not for sharpening. The longer between sharpenings I can manage the happier I am. I don't buy a car for ease of maintenance. I buy it based on as little maintenance required as possible.
 
When buying a traditional, I always look at the steel type, but it isn't usually a deciding factor. I don't have a problem touching up my 1095 GECs & I like a user to take on a patina, but the D2 on my Queen & Northwoods stockmans sure is nice.
 
knarfeng said:
It is hardly a secret that I pay attention to blade steel.
It is not a deciding factor, but it is a factor when I buy a knife.

Like Gary, I started with carbon steel, then switched to stainless. I much prefer stainless over non-stainless steel. I will seldom buy an expensive (GEC) non-stainless knife. But I will buy Case CV at Case's lower price point.

I prefer carbide containing alloys (Alloys with Carbon content greater than 0.77%) over non-carbide containing alloys. They hold an edge better for the chores for which I commonly use a knife. I also prefer 440A over 420HC if they are both hardened to the same hardness. But 440A is more expensive to make knives out of than is 420HC, so nobody in the US uses it anymore that I have seen.

I prefer PM alloys over melt alloys. Now it's REALLY hard to find a PM alloy in a traditional knife. And the few that I have seen have had other negatives which overrode the use of the better alloy. (I have to like the rest of the design before I buy a knife, no matter what the blade steel.) So aside from a Buck 501 lockback in S30V, I have no traditional knives in PM alloys. I do have blades in PM alloys, but they don't get mentioned in this forum.
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Couldn't have said it better myself. As far as 440A, I have an older Cammillus Remington in it and am very impressed. I have 4 custom traditionals all stainless in ATS34, 154CM and 440C. Personally, I think 440C is a great steel...particularly if you like performance and shiny blades :) The only high dollar traditional in a carbon steel I own is an original Northwoods made by Shirley and a copy of a Scagel knife...figured it had to be in carbon steel :)
 
I find Carpenters CTS XHP to be a perfect slipjoint steel.

CTS XHP alloy is powder metallurgy, air-hardening, high carbon, high chromium, corrosion-resistant alloy. It can be considered either a high hardness 440C stainless steel or a corrosion-resistant D2 tool steel.

CTS XHP alloy possesses corrosion resistance equivalent to CarTech 440C stainless steel and can attain a maximum hardness of 64 HRC. In addition, the composition of CarTech CTS XHP alloy has been balanced so that it can attain a minimum hardness of 60 HRC when air cooled from hardening temperatures of 1850 to 2000°F (1010°C to 1093°C). CTS XHP alloy is thus more forgiving during heat treatment than similar alloys.

Carbon 1.60 % Manganese 0.50 %
Silicon 0.40 % Chromium 16.00 %
Nickel 0.35 % Molybdenum 0.80 %
Vanadium 0.45 % Iron Balance

Joel Chamblin lockback whittler in CTS XHP

628162-jpg.716978
 

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In Germany, Boker offers this knife in CPM CruWear(an american alloy), but has not been sold in the US in CruWear yet. I found this out after I bought it, if it would have been available in CW, I would have preferred that.

boker-jpg.716979


CPM CRU-WEAR is an air-hardening tool steel, heat treatable to HRC 60-65. Designed as an CPM upgrade to conventional Cru-Wear and D2, it offers better wear resistance, much greater toughness and higher attainable hardness. Both D2 and CPM CRU-WEAR contain carbides for wear resistance, but CPM CRU-WEAR has more vanadium carbides than D2. Vanadium carbides are harder than chromium carbides and are much more effective in providing wear resistance. CPM CRUWEAR’s higher attainable hardness results from the fact that it contains sufficient tungsten and molybdenum to cause a secondary hardening response, (up to HRC 65), which does not occur in D2. CPM CRU-WEAR tempers at a higher range (900-1050°F) than D2 (400-600°F), so it is more compatible with a wide variety of surface treatments. Finally, because CPM CRU-WEAR is made as CPM, it will resist chipping and breakage more so than most conventionally made tool steels.

Carbon 1.1% Chromium 7.5% Vanadium 2.4% Tungsten 1.15% Molybdenum 1.6%
 

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I tried to get a steel thread started a few months back. It seemed that most folks, not all, consider steel from the macro view of stainless vs carbon. It makes me wonder if a better question for this thread would have been, "Do folks on the porch understand steel."

I personally have a lot to learn, especially in the realm of chemical make up and what that translates to in performance. I find I enjoy carbon on traditionals and stainless on moderns, but am just now exploring carbon on moderns and stainless on traditionals.

I enjoy reading threads on steel more so than threads on the history and releases.

The steel on the new Euro-Barlow Mike is putting out is M390. Yes, it is a twist on a traditional but the steel and pattern combo has me pretty excited.

So in short, yep I consider steel, but not really in the way this thread pertained to carrying.
 
MT Damascus said:
In Germany, Boker offers this knife in CPM CruWear(an american alloy), but has not been sold in the US in CruWear yet. I found this out after I bought it, if it would have been available in CW, I would have preferred that.

boker-jpg.716979


CPM CRU-WEAR is an air-hardening tool steel, heat treatable to HRC 60-65. Designed as an CPM upgrade to conventional Cru-Wear and D2, it offers better wear resistance, much greater toughness and higher attainable hardness. Both D2 and CPM CRU-WEAR contain carbides for wear resistance, but CPM CRU-WEAR has more vanadium carbides than D2. Vanadium carbides are harder than chromium carbides and are much more effective in providing wear resistance. CPM CRUWEAR’s higher attainable hardness results from the fact that it contains sufficient tungsten and molybdenum to cause a secondary hardening response, (up to HRC 65), which does not occur in D2. CPM CRU-WEAR tempers at a higher range (900-1050°F) than D2 (400-600°F), so it is more compatible with a wide variety of surface treatments. Finally, because CPM CRU-WEAR is made as CPM, it will resist chipping and breakage more so than most conventionally made tool steels.

Carbon 1.1% Chromium 7.5% Vanadium 2.4% Tungsten 1.15% Molybdenum 1.6%
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Are these traditional knives Kris? I know modern knives have Cruwear and CPM-Cruwear here in the states but I havent seen it on a traditional.Edit: Doh! Just saw your picture. :D
 
Just whether it's carbon or not as I normally preffer it to stainless. I don't need no super steels for the tasks I use my knives for.
 
I pay attention to how well the steel is sharpened from the factory. Steels like D2 and CPM154 are much more time consuming to put on a proper edge by hand, so I'm much less likely to buy a knife with that steel if I know the factory has a bad reputation for grinds and factory edges (I'm looking at you Queen). NOBODY wants to hand profile a wavy-ground slab of D2 that is 1 millimeter thick behind the 25 degree per side cutting edge from factory. Factories in Taiwan and China can do it right, why not you?
 
I pay more attention with fixed blades than folders. As I vastly prefer smaller folders, there's really no need for me to have a super steel. I'm not batoning with a Case Peanut, I'm cutting open envelopes, taped packages, food packaging, and loose threads on clothing mostly. Case's Tru Sharp, Case CV, Buck's 420HC or GEC's 1095 are all completely capable of handling my needs.

With fixed blades, I'm much more interested in what steel is used, whether it be 1095, O1, A2, S30V, CPM, etc, as there is a possibility that I might need it to perform to a higher standard, longer.
 
the choice of maybe is not up there. im more of a collector than a user. ive used a hone at best and rarely ever sharpen my knives. that being said although it is nice to see knives in different steel, i probably couldnt tell you off hand if its 420 hc, 440, 1095, ATS 34, 154 CM, D2 etc. probably would be able to pick apart china special though ;)
 
Yes I certainly do consider it, but as others have stated the Traditional realm is rather limited when it comes to steel choice or even consciousness of it. I have to say that I think there is some kind of weird hangover, could it be nostalgia about carbon steel being THE steel for Traditional knives, kind of article of faith maybe. Obviously carbon has its virtues: it's very cheap, probably easy to stamp out than harder stainless types, easy to sharpen,can get a nice patina. But, it can also get a very nasty 'patina' rust, requires attention and for prolonged cutting requires frequent sharpening and wears down. It imparts flavour onto foods as well...So yes I prefer stainless and I like D2 very much indeed, the usual stainless 420 & 440c are preferable to carbon in most instances. Sandvik types as used on French and European knives I like and ATS and 154 types plus the Japanese steel as seen on Moki would be really ideal for my likes and uses. But, if we consider GEC at least, carbon is a dogma and very little stainless 'heresy' escapes its doors, more's the pity... Carbon footprint...man cannot cut by carbon alone:D;)
 
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