Do they still hunt lions and tigers anymore?

[golok]

About half a century ago, going on a safari to really shoot and kill the big game was the pastime of the rich and adventurous.

These days the only thing they shoot in a safari is with a video-camera.

I suppose all unreasonable shooting of big game has been banned, although I suspect there are still some illegal private shooting safaris going on.

Seriously though, is there any part of the world where big game hunting is still legal? I suppose hunters can be called in to shoot killer tigers or lions? Even in these cases, some governments prefer to just shoo them back into the deeper jungle.

In my country in recent months, some rogue tiger or tigers have been making meals out of a couple of unfortunate villagers. So far, the hungers have come up empty-handed.

Years ago, a villager practically killed a tiger with a golok, but just barely. He almost didn't survived. The tiger didn't, anyway. But that is an extremely rare case.

Back to safaris, who organises such outings and usually it involves how many people?

 

[texascarl]

I read that the Indian Gov't had some research indicating that Tigers don't like to attack humans when they can see their face, they prefer to attack from behind. The gov't began issuing masks to be worn on the back of the head in 'man eater' areas and tiger attacks dropped off. Sadly, tigers are becoming quite rare in the wild, I don't think they're being legally hunted anywhere. Reason enough to watch Kurosawa's Dersu Uzala again.

There's still safari style hunting in Africa, game management culling hunts. You might enjoy a book entitled 'African Twilight' by Robert F. Jones. It details the changes in hunting that have taken place in Africa in the past 30 years, Jones is one of my favorite authors.

India's lost a lot of habitat, from what I've read. I don't know what their hunting is like these days.

 

[Jimbo]

Except for ones gone bad - I'm with leaving large predators for pictures. Loss of habitat is what's dropped the numbers not hunting - as with the grizzlies here. I sure enjoy going out to watch grizzlies - which could explain my attitude.
"Dersu" is a wonderful movie - expensive, but often you can get it through a library. Then again if you watch it, you'll probably end up owning it.

 

[BowlesKnives]

Hey guys,

Actually lion hunts continue own and are perfectly legal. I have many customers who buy my knives to just give to the guides after a good hunt. They still hunt almost everything if you have the cash to do it. But its not as expensive as you think it just cost getting it mounted and shipping it home

Keep it Sharp

Chris Bowels
www.bowlesknives.com

 

[A Johnson]

From what a few of my friend have told me. Big game hunting in the Africa's or India's is still a big time goal. Its even considered "eco friendly". Basicaly you pay for the right to bag a tiger,water buf,boar,elifant...what ever. But the money that you are spending is less than a good griz hunt...and all the moneys go towards further advancment and protection of the park, or wild life sanctuary. Ive even been told (k...dont trust me here) that you can bring back the trofies.

It might sound backwards an stupid...but it realy isnt. Basicaly for your right to kill a big game animal is paying for guards an fence to stop the real bad asses...the pochers. Which in turn sell the limited parts of said animal for "medicine" or fur/tooth material.

Us as knife owners realy now gotta worrie about it. Ive been told that up to 1/3 of all ivory is poached.

Somthing to think about!

 

[oupa]

Yes you can still hunt big game in Africa.
You buy a Government lisence and the park owner's representative (private or government) usually accompany the hunter and point out the specimen that may be shot.
Usually cubs, females and leaders are spared.
The old, sickly or rouge animals are shot.
In most places the Ivory becomes the property of the state.

The golden rule (like with everything else in life) is:
It is not what you know, but who you know and.....
Money talks.

 

[A Johnson]

Dont know here but I have a question. Wouldnt going to Texas to hunt ferral pigs with a spear be better? I even know some companies up here in Canada that give the same offer for black bears. Now it might cost more than a tiger. But come on now, whats a bigger "brag tag"? Kill a set up tiger with a gun, or do a bear with a spear? Ya in both cases your guide wont let you die, he's armed with usualy a .270, so if you get in truble he'll take care of you. But for me...bragin rights goes to kill a blackie with a spear!

 

[ThorTso]

Sadly, they still hunt lions and tigers. You may have heard the expression "canned lions"? That is what happens in Africa. What this means is that sick, lame, old and healthy lions that are drugged, are "set up" for the rich hunter from America and Europe. They let the hunter think thart this lion is a man-eater and is usually taken out from quite a distance. The unsuspecting American/European hunter, who just paid anything between US$100,000 and US$300,000 is none the wiser and is made to feel good about this.

Forgive my feelings on this topic.....enough said

 

[alco141]

there is a tremendous amount of misinformation in this thread, i have hunted big game on three continents in the past 20 years, the 100,000 dollar lions are a myth, as are the rare canned hunt, which has mostly been perptrated by antihunting groups as a set up to build political momentum to ban hunting.

there are a lot of lion and leopard to hunt in africa that are free range, the cost is fairly high about 1500 to 3000 dollars, the canned hunts are a rarity and mostly propaganda by the antihunting organizations. there is no danger of depleting lions or leopard in africa. there is no legal hunting of tigers anywhere in the world at this time. every country has outlawed the import or export of trophy tiger hunting. i have hunted many other species of plains game and the real truth is that where there is no hunting there is no game and the poachers run rampant and kill everything. sport hunting has nothing in common with poaching which is the indescriminant killing of all game and non game animals.

the fees paid by hunters support the game conservation departments of many third world nations and with out these funds there is no game guard to prevent the poachers. most of the bad hunting press is distorted by the anti hunting radicals to build a political base and has no real basis, they rely on the emotionalism to try to force their agenda.

in south africa all the hunting is done on private property, and the animals are purchased from the government. there is a lot of game in south africa, of all types, they have such a large surplus due to their excellent game management that they have even exported animals to other countries. all of this is paid for by sport hunters. not by the anti hunting crowd who would make you beleive that all the animals are endangered.

alex

 

[John Gerasimov]

People who kill cats for any reason but self-defense are the worst scumbags and cowards with extremely small penises.(I`m a cat lover if you didn`t guess already).I bet those people would piss in their pants if they were confronted by a 70yr old unarmed drunken woman in a bar even if they had a bowie on them.

 

[ThorTso]

Originally posted by alco141
there is a tremendous amount of misinformation in this thread, i have hunted big game on three continents in the past 20 years, the 100,000 dollar lions are a myth, as are the rare canned hunt, which has mostly been perptrated by antihunting groups as a set up to build political momentum to ban hunting.
alex

Alco, I beg to differ my friend. I live here in Africa...they show it on TV, we have heated TV debates on the subject virtually on a daily basis. I know of people who do this. So I am telling you that you are grossly misinformed on the topic. I have no time whatsoever for hunting, other than when one's life depends on it for survival. Hunting for the sport of it is antidelluvian and grotesque. I have no time for it. End of discussion :barf: :barf: :barf:

 

[ThorTso]

Originally posted by John Gerasimov
People who kill cats for any reason but self-defense are the worst scumbags and cowards with extremely small penises.(I`m a cat lover if you didn`t guess already).I bet those people would piss in their pants if they were confronted by a 70yr old unarmed drunken woman in a bar even if they had a bowie on them.

John, I am with you on this one buddy. Who the blazes wants to hunt wild cats that are "free range", or any friggin range?????? I agree, it's only the a$$holes with small penisses!!!!!!!!!!!! They have to compensate by having a big gun to kill or maim something.:barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:

 

[budman]

Hunting the big cats is a tremendous adventure. I hunted Leopard in Zimbabwe in 1995..( by the way it didn't affect my penis size )..
Following up the cat in thick bush makes every hair stand up on your neck...

 

[oupa]

Stalking a 200+ pound killing machine on foot through the grasslands of Africa with a bolt-action rifle is an experience that one never forgets.
I will refrain from insulting those who know no better.
Their low-fat yoghurt and de-caf, combined with a low salt diet has clouded their perception and who cares about their opinions anyway.

 

[guncollector]

Alco141:

You hit the nail on the head with regards to Game Management. Educated and informed people understand there is only so much real-estate in the world--and its basically (esp. in Africa) people vs. "the wilderness". If you want to preserve the wilderness, someone's got to pay to preserve and protect it, and to cull the herds in the name of game management. Now, either the Govt/Game Wardens can do this (which they often do), but why have them perform the culling, when sportsmen who can afford revenue-generating licenses perform the same function? If you're serious about preserving the wild, you already understand this: Licenses are the single-largest revenue generator.

Believe it or not, residing here in the SF Bay Area (bastion of the misinformed liberal), I have many friends and acquiantances who either belong to (and have even worked for) The Sierra Club and/or Rainforest Action Network. Because they are educated, even their bleeding-hearts understand the need for Game Management.

John Gerasimov & ThorTso:

You're both on the fast lane to Losing All Respect for yourselves by belittling (pardon the pun) sportsmen's anatomies for pursuing legal, ethical, and required hunting.

I assure those sportsmen who legally hunt lions--in accordance with all laws and legal methods--have quite alot of fortitude (if not very largecojones), my friends. In the high plains grass with low visibility and lions blending in perfectly to the environment, you are simply part of the food/protein-chain--and whatever the type of rifle or scattergun you're carrying, it will feel like a pea-shooter.

And the biggest cojones of all belong to the PH (professional hunters) who's ethical/professional responsibility is--should the need arise--to finish off wounded-cats in the high grass for his client!

ThorTso:

A fool and his money are soon parted.

Anyone who is paying $100,000.00 for a single-hunt needs to be examined for mental competency. That being said, there are unscrupulous people the world-over, and of course I believe you when you say "canned hunts" are occuring in So. Africa. For that matter, it occurs on hog ranches in the US, on big cat hunts in So. America, and wherever there is money to be scammed from hunters careless in their choice of outfitters.

Other forumites on either side of the hunting debate:

I'll leave you with a quote from naturalist, Aldo Leupold:
“A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him.”
-- Aldo Leupold A Sand County Almanac

 

[Brian Jones]

I'm keeping a close eye on this thread. A couple have crossed the line of civilized discussion, just barely, and are in danger of causing this thread to be locked. Stay cool, stay calm, stay professional, and you'll stay welcome here. If you want to get emotional and political, go to Whine & Cheese or the Political forum in Community. This is the first and last time I'll say this.

Thanks,

Brian.

 

[John Gerasimov]

I did not mean to insult anybody personally here.Up until my thread nobody confessed to an actual lionhunt,people just expressed interest if it`s still done.As for low-fat yogurt stuff,let me tell you something.I`m an ex steroid-using powerlifter originally from Russia(came to US in 1990),way out on the conservative side(further than Buchanan).Lions are majesty and courage personified.If you want to fight them and get my respect,do it without ANY weapons.I know something about macho stuff.I`m from Saint-Petersburg which is the most violent place in Russia,which in turn makes the Bronx where I live now look like a kindergarten.You wanna feel like a man,go to a bar and tell the bouncer that he looks a little queer,that`ll be your biggest thrill ever.In my opinion,killing big cats is worse that murder,about as bad as pedophilia.I used to be a big Hemingway fan until I learned that he hunted lions.

 

[GREENJACKET]

If there were a million tigers, then I'd enjoy going hunting one. But there isn't, so I'll just have to continue putting my cash in the Tiger conservation tin.

In some places there is a surplus of lions, surplus of quite a few species, to the point they need to be culled to keep the population stable. Good game management, under a stable government, does allow for sport shooting that can aid conservation in a really advantagous way(cash). Recent, good mananaged sports shooting has a better track record, certainly more sustainable over the longer term, than many "animal lover" programmes. South Africa is a good example where games shooting works (well it did when I was last over, but that was some time ago.)

Corruption is the scurge of wildlife management. Without strong leadership people will replace wildlife with domestic animals/crops. Population expansion removes wildlife period.

Best practices:
If you are going for a cat then, to me, there is a right way and a wrong way. The etiquet is to do it on foot and earn it. Leopard may mean a high seat for some very long nights. Patroling an area by vehicle is a crap way. For big cats are not particularly difficult to kill. A cape Buffalo, now that is one tough, scarry beast.

Final thought, big cats are beautiful alive. They look **** dead, even worse stuffed and I don't care how good the taxdermist is.

 

[alco141]

well i guess because something is on tv that means that it is true. not, the media people have a very large bias against firearms and all the sports that legitimize them. i have hunted africa including south africa, if you want to pay 100,000 to shoot a cat in a cage well poor you. as far as degrading anyone on this forum, i think some of you should be embarassed about some of the comments and behavior in this thread. because someone disagrees with you, you revert to personal attacks. so you have your personal opinions so does everyone else. i poked a hole in your bunnyhugger phylosophy about sport hunting and i witnessed the usual response, trying to demean and defile another because you dont like his opinion or his personal experience doesent fit into your preconceived notions of all hunters. sorry, i have been there and done that unless you have personal experience then what you have to say is nothing more than pablum that has been poured into your head by a "need to feel good about my self" animal rights group and their media accomplices.

alex

 

[guncollector]

John Gerasimov wrote:
Lions are majesty and courage personified.

No argument there.

However, do not confuse man-attributed symbols with the the predatory feline of the African plains. The lion is merely another predatory, pack (called prides in the case of lions) animal on a long list of predators--both feline and non-feline. They are often scavengers, can/will eat their young, and often carry disease (not quite what your symbols had in mind, huh? Welcome to the real world). Lions require game management to assure their continued existence as a species.

The point you seem to be missing is this (let's approach it scientifically): A given plot of land can support only "X" number of predatory animals (in this case "X"-number of lions). If the number of lions exceeds "X" (overpopulation), the entire population suffers--and many suffer long, suffering death by starvation and/or disease. Note: this happens with any "game-managed" animal population if permitted to overpopulate.

Thus, it is wise Game Management to maintain the lion population at a sustainable level--no more, no less. Therefore, in "pure game management" (where no hunting is allowed) when overpopulation occurs, and the lions cannot be carted off to another location, they are culled (killed humanely)--by hunters (except these hunters are called Game Wardens).

Finally, you must realize that it requires a great deal of money to pay the salaries of Game Wardens, deputies, trackers, fencing (where applicable), rifles and ammunition, vehicles, gas, communications equipment, etc. What most intelligent Governments have decreed is that is is preferrable to assign the culling task to sportsmen who pay money (in the form of license) for the privilege. This is how real-world wild animals populations are maintained. If you have a real-world, pragmatic solution, I'm willing to listen--and you may have a new high-paying career on the Lecture Circuit.

If you want to fight them [lions] and get my respect,do it without ANY weapons.

I am not--and I hazard to guess no more than a handful worldwide would--be interested in earning your respect in that manner.

Possibly its just a linguistic misinterpretation, but no sportsmen are interested in "fighting" lions--quite the contrary, our only interest would be in a quick, one-sided, humane kill of the game.

I assure you, even with rifle in hand, the odds are still stacked way against the hunter: 1) you're on the lion's territory, 2) lion has superior hearing, 3) lion has superior smell, 4) lion has superior camouflage, 5) the lion has superiority in numbers, 6) the lion is armed with razor sharp claws and long fangs, and in most cases 7) the lion has vastly superior stalking skills (often the hunter becomes the hunted).

I know something about macho stuff.I`m from Saint-Petersburg which is the most violent place in Russia,which in turn makes the Bronx where I live now look like a kindergarten.You wanna feel like a man,go to a bar and tell the bouncer that he looks a little queer,that`ll be your biggest thrill ever.In my opinion,killing big cats is worse that murder,about as bad as pedophilia.I used to be a big Hemingway fan until I learned that he hunted lions.

I didn't think anyone was questioning your machismo.

Look you're entitled to your opinion, and if you can't see with clarity the correctness of game management and hunting, then we'll simply agree to disagree.

Either way, an intelligent and informed disagreement is preferrable to one filled with irrational and allegorical bias.

Hope that helps...