Do we want to keep our knives? Blade’s editorial and Customs.

Erikfsn

Erikfsn

Joined
Sep 23, 2000
Messages
524
I don’t know how many of you have seen Steve Shackleford’s editorial in February’s issue of Blade about U.S. Customs and CRKT. Please read it. While I agree with many of Mr. Shackleford's points I strongly disagree with the language he used to get them across. His tone will, if anything, endanger the right he wants to defend, the “right to own and carry knives.”

The title of the editorial sets the tone. “Attack of the Keystone Cops.” He goes on to refer to US Customs officials as "ignorant", "incompetent," and "morons.”

There are two clear points which need to be made in response to this editorial.
Insulting law enforcement officers is neither civil nor intelligent. It is not civil because LEOs risk their lives for us and deserve respect. They are also a significant portion of our community here and at other forums. Those that I've dealt with in the sales forums have been great to deal with. These are the same guys who occasionally give us the law enforcement perspective on the knives we carry and the legalities therein, and how they feel about the "armed citizen." I've got no problems with LEO's. And insulting them is not intelligent because, being human, the natural reaction is to retaliate and they have the means to do so.

The second point leads naturally from the first. The US Customs officers deserve an apology for the way they were characterized by Steve Shackleford. The apology should come from Shackleford and his publisher, Krause Publications and should be made very visible. It cannot be beneficial to taunt or verbally abuse LEOs. This is poor form, and reflects badly on our credibility.

Knife laws are so convoluted that I'm amazed more problems don't arise. It is the lawmakers, not the enforcement agencies, which need a little enlightening, and even then, civility should prevail.

I hope you will respond to this posting and to Blade (e-mail below) stating that as a community that we do not approve of Shackleton’s insulting tone and that apologies are in order.

Thank you for listening,
Erik

Blade's email address is:
Blade@Krause.com
 
I have yet to read the article so I will withold my opinion either way.
I do, however think you make some very good points.
I applaud you for speaking so openly.
 
Eric: I totally agree with your feelings, however I also totally agree with Steves mode of operation. I grew up in the US Navy, my dad was a 33 year career officer. My grandfather retired as an Admiral. I have many many friends who work for the US Government and the Hawaii Govnt. and steve is correct.......there are ENTIRELY too many incompetent people in power in our country today. They misuse their power and when exposed come down twice as hard on the offended parties. Such is the case in discussion. I know a few FBI agents and a few Secret Service agents....they are my friends and are very competent professionals, but they MUST do what they are told, or they will lose their jobs. And look whos on top.....When the wicked rule, the people groan......its in the Bible and its the TRUTH!

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http://www.mayoknives.com
Jer 33:3
 
Tom,
Let me expand a bit. Shackleford's mode of operation involves insulting LEOs. If you are pulled over for speeding, would you call the cop a "pig"? This insults a guy doing his/her job AND will likely lead to severe repercussions for you.
Those are the points I am trying to get across. That Shackleford is insulting, AND giving LEOs a strong motive for coming down on all of us, HARD.
 
I didn't follow the CRKT seizure, or read the article you are talking about. But from the few bits that I did read on this forum, wasn't US Customs wrong in their definition of switchblades and gravity knives? Apparently they were wrong because they gave everything back, and when you screw up like that, I feel it is not out of reason to expect a little anger from the people towards your mistake. I don't agree that we shouldn't get angry just because LEO's have power over us.

Note that I'm not personally angry about anything, and I don't even own a CRKT knife or care for them. I just think you deserve criticism if you screw up, regardless of whether you can stomp on the people criticizing you later. If you do stomp on the people, then I think your an evil person and deserve even more criticism and anger. Customs should not seek revenge on people for what was originally their own mistake. Knives are very important to some people and anger is to be expected from knife enthusiasts when mistakes by LEO's threaten their rights to puchase what is lawfully allowed. If the article is childish and critical of law enforcment groups and people that aren't even involved with the incident, well then I agree he is wrong in the way he is criticizing them. Otherwise anger is justified.


[This message has been edited by generallobster (edited 12-07-2000).]
 
Americans should not fear their leaders. I saw Ben Afleck on TV last night talking about 'doing a Clinton impression and fearing a tax audit.'
I read the editorial, and the raid should never have taken place. If you are a customs agent, then you should be an expert on what you're looking for. Any knut in this column was better qualified than the clowns they sent.
Don't apologize for these guys. You do not honor the good LEO's by covering for the imcompetent ones. If anything, the good customs agents should have been furious with the newbies who embarrassed the agency.
Notice how the traditional press was silent...--OKG
 
While I understand a concept of "don't insult LEOs", I don't think that applies here.

The Customs agents involved chose not to be cops anymore. They decided to be legislators.

Now, I have a problem with that. Care to guess what problem?

NOBODY ELECTED THE SOBs.

This isn't a joke, guys. This kind of "illegal legislation by cops" happens all the time. It happens when some twit holds your folder up and tries to tell you "it's longer than the palm of his hand" when I can assure you, there's no such law anywhere in the US. It happened to me in so many different ways relating to CCW permits in Calif it would take me pages to list it all.

We must not tolerate "police field legislation". And the CRKT case was a glaring example. It must be fought with words, with lawsuits, "by any means necessary".

I can't blame Shackleford for being pissed. So am I.

Jim
 
At least he didn't say "jackbooted thugs".

Mr. Erikfsn's point is entirely correct. The inflamatory language accomplishes nothing.

Think W!

------------------
Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
In general, my style is almost always non-confrontational, so normally I wouldn't support Steve's approach on this. In this case, however, we do have a customs office that seems to be running amuck. And I would I have said that even before this unfortunately incident with CRKT. How do I know? Because articles have been cropping up in the past couple of years in the center and left-of-center press on how completely out-of-hand that office has become, with reports of abuses of power and complaints far above any other office (unnecessary cavity searches, thuggish operating procedures, etc.). The office should be reviewed, management disciplined or fired where appropriate, and new procedures put in place. If this is the first time you've heard of bad things going on in the Pacific northwest customs office, you're way behind!

I'm not sure calling them keystone cops accomplishes anything either, but those guys definitely deserve some strong words, letters to senators, etc.

Joe
 
I have to admit, I did cringe a little at the word choices while reading the opinion piece; however, I cringed a lot more when the unjustified, ill-advised seizure took place.

I also wondered to myself if his article was written much closer in time to the event, due to deadlines, and how that might have influenced the tone?
 
You're getting Customs and Emigration mixed up, Mr. Talmadge.

And the most published case involved a Chinese woman who arrived at Portland International Airport. To prevent fraud, Chinese passports have a lamination seal not unlike what US passports have and what most other countries are using. The seal on this woman's passport was broken and the lamination was peeling back. There was no fraud here. Apparently, the passport was not properly sealed when it was made. But, the agent who inspected her documents had no way of knowing that. Detaining this woman was exactly the correct thing to do. The media storm that followed and eventually cost the official in charge his career was a classic case of the media reporting only the details of a story that suite the conclusion they want to reach. Let us not be guilty of the same mis-representation as we consider the CRKT case.

Think W!

------------------
Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com

[This message has been edited by Gollnick (edited 12-08-2000).]
 
Don, there are many out-the-side gravity knives. Picture a button lock auto (that locks both open and closed) without the spring. I believe the Boker Top Lock is a knife of this sort. The term is generally applied to knives which are designed to open with a light wrist flick. I agree that it is (or should be) obvious that CRKT makes nothing that fits this description.

I have not read the article in question, but I agree that anger is justified, and that it can be imprudent to insult those who hold power. I will suspend further judgement until after I read the article myself.

Here's a link to another thread on this topic in the AKTI forum: http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum30/HTML/000120.html

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Jason aka medusaoblongata
-----------------------
"I have often laughed at the weaklings who call themselves kind because they have no claws"

- Zarathustra
 
There is a much broader issue here. While our attention is on knives, and for many of us firearms, if you look at IRS, EPA, FDA, and any other federal agency, you will see pretty much the same pattern. This encroachment is occurring on a broad front. It is a symptom of the expanding power of the federal government. It isn't a conspiracy, it is driven by human nature. The country's founders observed that this has happened every time, everywhere, throughout history, and they designed the Constitution to prevent it. The federal government must be downsized or the trend will continue. Vote with care. Support local, state, and federal reps. who are dedicated to limited government. My .25 worth.
 
I'm just bowing out...that is why I deleted the posts. It is obvious that you cannot be critical of anyone carrying a badge for fear of offending someone. It has happened here and in other forums at BFC. It is clear that no dissenting voice can be raised for fear of being branded even a "Militia Member" in one thread over in Common Sense Self Defense.
 
Just one more thing. Then everyone can acquiesce and feel safe. From the AKTI Website...

Columbia River Knife and Tool may be back in business. But its business losses were significant. And they will never recover the losses they suffered. In fact, the U.S. Customs Service only reversed itself after Columbia River agreed never to sue them on this or any other planet for business losses related to the seizure. Furthermore, the “hold harmless” agreement also stipulated that if the U.S. Customs Service incurred any expense in pursuing their seizure, they could bill Columbia River for their costs!"

Call it what it is, corruption.
Click to expand...
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Don Rearic:
I'm just bowing out...that is why I deleted the posts. It is obvious that you cannot be critical of anyone carrying a badge for fear of offending someone. It has happened here and in other forums at BFC. It is clear that no dissenting voice can be raised for fear of being branded even a "Militia Member" in one thread over in Common Sense Self Defense. </font>
Click to expand...

Don, I didn't see your posts (now deleted). But I can read the other posts. I DO NOT see where anyone has been offended by your comments. There are no posts attacking you personally. There is one post that takes a different position than you apparently did, and another that simply says they agree with you. Moderators of this forum did not have anything to say about your posts.

So...WTF man? Of course there are conflicting or differing opinions about Law, Enforcement, and Legislation, which leads directly to Politics. I don't know what happened in the Common Sense Self Defense forum, but nothing obviously 'bad' has happened in this thread. Nobody has called you names, or labeled you in any way that I can see.

Please do not delete your posts. I think that is very bad form. And frankly, you seem to be whining in this thread about something that happened somewhere else.

With such a diverse group of forum members, sharing mostly a love of knives, but differing in age, geography, religion, education, experience, and political philosophy, it should be no surprise than strong positions on matters of public policy will not always meet with universal agreement. So what? Expressing YOUR opinion is the point of this place. Please do not delete it because someone seems to disagree with you, or be offended by your words. So what?

I dislike the idea that people won't post "for fear of offending someone". I consider myself to be an equal opportunity offender. I play by the rules (Be Nice), by I never expect Everyone to agree with me. The forums at BFC each have a different character. The folks posting in politics (like you) have pretty thick skins and manage to conduct some pretty heated arguements peacefully. The general forum is a little trickier because of the larger, and more diverse group of readers. But I fail to see any reponse in this thread that explains you deletion of several posts. I don't get it.

Paracelsus
edited for spelling, not content

[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 12-08-2000).]
 
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