Doan Magnesium Firestarter

[powernoodle]

If you have a working Bic lighter, a Doan block is sorta pointless. OTOH, if you have no other means of starting a fire, and find a Doan block in your pack, you'll be jumping up and down like a school girl. Its all relative.

:thumbup:

 

[DOC-CANADA]

Hey kgd,
:thumbup:

Doc

 

[Mistwalker]

I remember when Coghlan's had a problem with the epoxy they were using to affix their ferro rods to the magnesium block (I discussed it with them at the time). My understanding is that it has been taken care of. I (we) never had any issues with the Doan firestarters personally, or in the survival classes (some of these folks could wreck a battleship).

Any of the magnesium block/rod firestarters offer only the 'flash-in-the-pan' benefits (unless you weld around magnesium engine blocks or magnesium electrolysis rods). Good tinder preparation is the key to using these tools efficiently...and you should do that anyway. In the wind; making a depression in the ground or any form of wind block (small log, sticks, dirt or snow mounds, a container) will help. The duct tape trick works fine, too.

I view the mag block basically as a somewhat complicated match in a one-match fire technique. Tinder prep and wind blocking are definitely paramount in the use of one. However you can get this match wet with no adverse effects and you can use it over and over again.

 

[Any Cal.]

The problem with people relying on matches and lighters is that they never properly learn the discipline of tinder preparation and how that translates into a good fire. Hence, most people don't know how to build a fire. That doesn't change even when you hand them a lighter. Alternatively, maybe they are okay with a lighter in an ideal situation. Then they find themselves in a challenging situation - wet, rain, snow, sleet. Their lighter doesn't work good because they don't know how to collect dry tinder and don't know how to nurse the flame.

Lighters and matches are easier and they force lazy habits. They become a crutch because people falsely assume that fires are easier to start than they really are.

RANT mode ON:

I know you mean well, but are you serious? If a person can light a fire with a match, he knows how to build up a fire. If they can light a fire with a lighter, then they know how to build a fire.

The skill that one who has learned to use a firesteel or friction fire has is how to turn a spark or ember into flame. Which is absolutely unneeded if you are using a firemaking tool that makes...a flame.

The difference between primitive firestarting tools and one that creates a flame is TIME. The time to look for tinder, prepare it properly, and create your spark/ember, and nurse it into flame. At this point, you are at the exact same place as someone with a firestarting tool that makes a flame.

The view that a match is lazy and fairweather appears to be nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt at unfounded arrogance, especially in a forum dedicated to survival. I appreciate good campcraft like anyone else, but having known one who has indeed "survived" due to a plastic bag with matches in it, find the arbitrary putdown of any who don't follow the same line of thought rather useless.

RANT mode OFF.

Regardless of method of choice, one should properly learn to build a fire in all conditions. If building a fire is part of survival training, a person should also learn the most effective ways of starting a fire and staying warm, and realize that these are often different than what is often highly touted for "bushcraft" or "primitive skills".

 

[untamed]

The shavings also stick pretty good to a cotton ball with Vaseline on. Great tinder as well.

My "cheat" technique as well :thumbup:

 

[kgd]

The skill that one who has learned to use a firesteel or friction fire has is how to turn a spark or ember into flame. Which is absolutely unneeded if you are using a firemaking tool that makes...a flame.

I was being serious. In a sense, to me, your sentence above demonstrates the exact crutch that I was talking about. Presuming that tinders used with firesteels are never needed with flame sources is just a bad assumption. What works under the ideal, may not work in the non-ideal. Practice in piss poor conditions is the only way to overcome these things. That and letting nature teach you a few lessons in humility.

Hey, if I had a bic and a firesteel in my pocket and suddenly needed to make a fire, I would grab the bic. However, you can also bet that I would build the foundations of my fire that would ensure it was successful using either approach.

Edit - I started with a less than polite retort and then decided to change my post after a having a coffee and a good bowel movement. Ahw...perspectives change so easily

 

[dawsonbob]

RANT mode ON:

I know you mean well, but are you serious? If a person can light a fire with a match, he knows how to build up a fire. If they can light a fire with a lighter, then they know how to build a fire.

The skill that one who has learned to use a firesteel or friction fire has is how to turn a spark or ember into flame. Which is absolutely unneeded if you are using a firemaking tool that makes...a flame.

The difference between primitive firestarting tools and one that creates a flame is TIME. The time to look for tinder, prepare it properly, and create your spark/ember, and nurse it into flame. At this point, you are at the exact same place as someone with a firestarting tool that makes a flame.

The view that a match is lazy and fairweather appears to be nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt at unfounded arrogance, especially in a forum dedicated to survival. I appreciate good campcraft like anyone else, but having known one who has indeed "survived" due to a plastic bag with matches in it, find the arbitrary putdown of any who don't follow the same line of thought rather useless.

RANT mode OFF.

Regardless of method of choice, one should properly learn to build a fire in all conditions. If building a fire is part of survival training, a person should also learn the most effective ways of starting a fire and staying warm, and realize that these are often different than what is often highly touted for "bushcraft" or "primitive skills".

Hold your flame — match or lighter — up to a 4 inch log to light it. Please let us know how that works out for you.

You still need to build a proper foundation no matter what method you use. Your match, which has a burn time of only seconds, or your lighter, which will become too hot to hold, will probably not ignite a log (other than, say, Birch).

 

[Any Cal.]

Edit - I started with a less than polite retort and then decided to change my post after a having a coffee and a good bowel movement. Ahw...perspectives change so easily

I wondered how you would take it. I changed the post I wrote twice myself before I posted. It wasn't meant to be a personal attack, but I felt like your post typified the general attitude of many here, which makes it that much more difficult for someone new to get a handle on things.

Hold your flame — match or lighter — up to a 4 inch log to light it. Please let us know how that works out for you.

If that was ever recommended by me, please show me where.

I agree wholeheartedly that a good foundation is required. I also agree that what would work with a firesteel would easily work with other methods. The difference is that a primitive method isn't necessarily required. While a primitive fire method can teach a lot, it also can overcomplicate things, especially for someone new to it.

I keep changing this post to put what I am trying to say into words, but it isn't coming out. I guess my personal experience simply leads me to see things a bit differently, and hope to show that view to others who are asking. Not that one is right or wrong, but we talk about our opinions of different tools, shelters, etc., so we might as well mention a difference of opinion when it comes to technique.

 

[dawsonbob]

I wondered how you would take it. I changed the post I wrote twice myself before I posted. It wasn't meant to be a personal attack, but I felt like your post typified the general attitude of many here, which makes it that much more difficult for someone new to get a handle on things.


If that was ever recommended by me, please show me where.

I agree wholeheartedly that a good foundation is required. I also agree that what would work with a firesteel would easily work with other methods. The difference is that a primitive method isn't necessarily required. While a primitive fire method can teach a lot, it also can overcomplicate things, especially for someone new to it.

I keep changing this post to put what I am trying to say into words, but it isn't coming out. I guess my personal experience simply leads me to see things a bit differently, and hope to show that view to others who are asking. Not that one is right or wrong, but we talk about our opinions of different tools, shelters, etc., so we might as well mention a difference of opinion when it comes to technique.

You mention people who are new to this, and that's a good thing, but you seem to think that teaching them how to build a proper fire would confuse them. So, the newbie goes confidently into the brush armed with their trusty matches without knowing how to lay a proper fire base. They go through their entire box of matches trying to light branches that are too thick to light. The cold kills them. Pity.

What I, and others, are saying is that it's better to teach the newbie that there is a proper way to build their fire: tinder, then kindling, then larger and larger pieces. If they learn this, they can make a fire with one match. They're warm, dry, can cook food, and they live. All good.

It's not that anyone wants to complicate things for the newbie, it's that they want the newcomer to learn, so that their life will be easier, not harder. Yeah, it takes a little while for them to learn this stuff, but they can have fun doing it, and it will simplify their life in the end... not make it harder.

I'm not trying to be contentious here; we simply seem to have different views on the subject. Nor am I saying that we should always choose the most primitive way of making fire, even though it's a ton of fun. Heck, I sometimes use a Bic lighter myself. What I am saying is that, whether they use a Bic or a fire stick, they should learn to lay a proper foundation that will make them a flaming success.

 

[Any Cal.]

What I am saying is that, whether they use a Bic or a fire stick, they should learn to lay a proper foundation that will make them a flaming success.

Perfect.

 

[Calebklyne]

after having to start a fire at the top of a mountain in sideways rain i would have to recommend a firesteel and fatwood,jute,pj balls ect over matches or a bic. my reasoning for this is that my bic for some reason did not want to fire until i got down the mountain and matches are pretty useless in the rain and wind, so while my firesteel took a bit of time and effort to get a fire going it was the only reason we had a fire that night, however if i need a fast fire in good conditions i always use a lighter or matches

 

[kgd]

I wondered how you would take it. I changed the post I wrote twice myself before I posted. It wasn't meant to be a personal attack, but I felt like your post typified the general attitude of many here, which makes it that much more difficult for someone new to get a handle on things.

It was a good post Any Cal. and forced me to think. Then I saw your trials with Rotte's contest thread and my respect grew for you.

I spent 36 years of my life making fires with matches and lighters. Even thought I was good at fire. Then when I joined this place and learned about new fangled firesteels I decided I had to try it. I learned more out of the humility of finding out that it didn't work so easy and then I found myself on a journey of really learning fire skills. When I got to the point of looking at plants and assessing them for tinder potential and trying them out then I really started to feel like I was getting it.

Then I started getting into more primitive methods and I was learning even more. I was dealt another humility lesson by mother nature today as I was trying to do a bowdrill with Normark. I was mixing woods, had a cottonwood hearth but foraged for the drill and head piece. No go, I had smoke but ran out of energy before I could get close to a coal. I've got lots of coals under my belt, but I've got lots of practice to do.

Learning bow drill forced me to really think about wood and its properties. Learning how to identify tries with good woods for bow drill. Again, these are things that I didn't even consider before. I think there is still a pile of stuff to learn and its because I keep trying to practice more difficult things. I want to be able to do hand drills by this year. That's going to be my new years resolution I think for 2010.

Anyhow, I suppose I wasn't lazy before I knew about primitive fire methods in the past. But because I relied on technology so much for most of my life I failed to ask the right questions and I regret going through 1/3 of my life span in ignorance about something that I think is so fascinating and useful to know today.

 

[warrigal]

Hye Doc mine isn't Pink it is Fulro-Yello so it doesn't get lost amongst all the rest of my gear that is Pink!
LOL
Just because you have a flame doesn't guarantee you have a fire.
Carl

 

[Masteroffajitas]

It's too time consuming to shave magnesium, enough to take a spark. It doesn't give off a good flame like char cloth and jute twine, or patroleum soaked cotton ball. It makes my knife spine all scratched up, not to mention the fire steel on it usually sucks.

 

[desmobob]

What are your thoughts on these? Any good? Hard to use? I've heard the magnesium lights easy and goes out quickly.

I think they're great because they are so easy to stash in you packs. The magnesium does go up quick, but it burns at a very high temperature. As long as you're prepared for it, no problem. Just scrape off about three times as much as you think you'd need and you should be good to go. :thumbup:


I went hunting today. At lunch time, I made some coffee. In my pack I had the Doan's bar, a ferrocerium rod, and two small waterproof containers full of PJCBs. I wasn't feeling very "bushcrafty" so I pulled out my little Esbit stove and lit an Esbit tab with the generic disposable butane lighter that was in my pocket.


Stay sharp,
desmobob

 

[DOC-CANADA]

I want to be able to do hand drills by this year. That's going to be my new years resolution I think for 2010.

If you need any help.............

Doc

 

[go2ndAmend]

It is dark. It is cold. You are damp, in fact the wind just picked up and a horizontal sleet is blowing. It has been winter for several months. Everything is very, very wet. You are 26 miles from anywhere. You are tired after days in the mountains. You need a fire. You need a fire right now. Your lighter is worthless since your elevation is above 9500'. You only have a film can of vasoline/cotton tinder, a firesteel, and a box of waterproof matches. Unfortunately, the matches won't work because the striker pad on the box is now soggy due to the horizontal sleet despite your best efforts to keep everything a dry as possible. YOU NEED A FIRE. If you had a flamethrower and 5 gallons of diesel, you would use it, but you don't have it. YOU NEED TO REMAIN CALM. You have done this before. It is all about the proper set-up. PATIENCE. Tinder, Kindling, Small Sticks all ready to use. Finally, ready to spark. A quick flick of the ferro rod, the smallest of flames begin and you now carefully feed the flames with fuel. You will survive yet again.

 

[Skimo]

G2A, I can only think of a few things about your post... no where did you mention what knife you used to get get dry tinder and kindling!

Also, in northern California, isn't the tree line right about 9,500'

 

[go2ndAmend]

Wyoming 2008, Colorado 2007. Falkniven F1.

 

[Any Cal.]

......