Does anyone like to pack ultralight when going outdoors.

hutch762mg said:
No offense meant either, but have you been in an Infantry unit?? :)

Those that have know what I speak of.

I totally agree that one should try less not more (in terms of gear not weight)

I was just responding to the question of ultralight backpacking in general.

Hollowdweller,

I 100% concur. You just articulated what I wanted to articulate a lot better.

Thanks!:)

H
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Yes, sir, I have, and nothing but infantry. They said I didn't have the brains for the air force, and if I can't fly, then I might as well walk - ground vehicles are boring, and make fine targets. :D

Perhaps the difference was that it was Finnish infantry, and not US. Of the latter I have no personal experience at all.

I think there might be some cultural thing going on here. It would be interesting to know what Americans consider "a lot of gear" or "everything but the kitchen sink" as compared to us Finns - I suspect we're a bit more "conservative" with regard to outdoor gear than Americans.

These discussions always interest me, since there's obviously no one way of doing it right. Or like the drill instructor used to say: "If it's stupid, but it works, then it isn't stupid. If it's brilliant but it doesn't work, then it isn't brilliant." :D
 
hutch762mg said:
No offense meant either, but have you been in an Infantry unit?? :)

Those that have know what I speak of.

I totally agree that one should try less not more (in terms of gear not weight)

I was just responding to the question of ultralight backpacking in general.

Hollowdweller,

I 100% concur. You just articulated what I wanted to articulate a lot better.

Thanks!:)

H
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Elen,
Hopefully I didn't come off as a jerk here. What I wanted to say was that the loads are not determined by the individual. Team items must spread out etc. Military gear in general is heavy. Radios, batteries extra ammo for crew served weapons like 240's, mortars etc, just add up. In addition if you have to work in a mountainous/snowy environment the team gear gets more intense/heavy.

Light Infantry isn't. 70-100lbs loads are not that uncommon.

H
 
Elen said:
Yes, sir, I have, and nothing but infantry. They said I didn't have the brains for the air force, and if I can't fly, then I might as well walk - ground vehicles are boring, and make fine targets. :D

Perhaps the difference was that it was Finnish infantry, and not US. Of the latter I have no personal experience at all.

I think there might be some cultural thing going on here. It would be interesting to know what Americans consider "a lot of gear" or "everything but the kitchen sink" as compared to us Finns - I suspect we're a bit more "conservative" with regard to outdoor gear than Americans.

These discussions always interest me, since there's obviously no one way of doing it right. Or like the drill instructor used to say: "If it's stupid, but it works, then it isn't stupid. If it's brilliant but it doesn't work, then it isn't brilliant." :D
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Well no need to explain cold weather mountain ops to you then!!! :) I pretty sure you guys have a little more experience than we do at that stuff.

Yeah I agree. I'm first generation US from Norwegian and Danish Parents. In general the family laughs at what we Americans think is good quality outdoor gear. I would wager that the majority of the types of gear that we in the US consider ultralight is probably just standard fair in Europe.

H
 
One thing you can say for us Americans is that we love our stuff. I think the US military has used the line "we lead the way" and this is one of the ways that it does it -- loving stuff:D I believe that it has been reliably documented that the modern American infantryman carries more gear (in lbs.) than any other in history. That's why those of us who are vets think carrying 20-30lbs of stuff IS ultralight backpacking;).
 
XMP said:
One thing you can say for us Americans is that we love our stuff. I think the US military has used the line "we lead the way" and this is one of the ways that it does it -- loving stuff:D I believe that it has been reliably documented that the modern American infantryman carries more gear (in lbs.) than any other in history. That's why those of us who are vets think carrying 20-30lbs of stuff IS ultralight backpacking;).
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:D Ain't that the truth!
 
hutch762mg said:
Well no need to explain cold weather mountain ops to you then!!! :) I pretty sure you guys have a little more experience than we do at that stuff.

Yeah I agree. I'm first generation US from Norwegian and Danish Parents. In general the family laughs at what we Americans think is good quality outdoor gear. I would wager that the majority of the types of gear that we in the US consider ultralight is probably just standard fair in Europe.

H
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Norwegian and Danish folks? That pretty much makes you a straight-up Viking! :D

Like XMP said, Americans seem to love their stuff. Lots of fancy tech, and while fancy tech is very useful, it does weigh a lot sometimes. I don't think I would feel too comfortable carrying some of the heavier stuff they make you guys carry. I believe this applies to more than just the military side of things: I would bet that the average American backpacker brings along some items that few of his European counterparts would normally carry. The way I see it, it's not a quality issue - American gear can certainly be excellent - but rather a question of different definitions for "necessary" gear. Some of the things Americans like enough to consider them necessary aren't so necessary to us, so we get lighter packs. ;) There are the downsides, though: you guys get to have more varied food, and all sorts of nice gizmos to play with! :D
 
SUL Camp Pictures

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Here are some of my camp site pictures over the past year.

My pack for most of my backpacking trips was a Fanatic Fringe or Gossamer. Base pack weight 5 lbs. or under. Never cold or wet.

Think of what is essential on a dayhike. Then add your sleep stuff. If you are doing the kind of backpacking where you hike most of the day and camp at night remember you are sleeping 6-8 hours but hiking all day. Most of your trip will be on your feet and very little spent sleeping. Yet people carry most of their weight for the shortest part of the trip. Keep dry and warm, or cool if you are in the jungle or warm weather in the summer. Everything else you can do without.

For me the name of the game is "Multiuse".

My poncho is my tarp and rain gear.

My sleep pad is the frame for my pack also.

My shoes and platypus serve as my pillow.

My pack insulates my feet and legs.

My bivy (when I take it is my pack liner, ground cloth and wind protector).

This simple way of thinking is a huge part of my weight or lack of. I have not had a cold or wet night since I was car camping. So my system works for me and is very easy to maintain.

A simple camp is easy to keep clean and organized.

I take a Golite Lair 1 (10 oz.) two person tarp when I am providing shelter for two people.
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Nice set-up. Mine is very similar when I use a tarp. I use an Oware Cattarp and a TiGoat Bivy.

What kind of poles do you use?

H
 
25 years ago my winter pack weighed as much as 60ib. Done plenty of running with a pack too. Probably one of the reasons my knees are in such a state today! :(
 
There seems to be two theories of ultralight. One I agree with, one I don't.
The one I see most often is the one I don't. And that is to carry the lightest crap you can find, and the least of it. These are the guys that have their POS packs blowout on them, and end up carrying everything back in their arms, or they end up being the gear/shelter/food mooches mentioned before. They also tend to be the ones that carry a lot of stuff. Just light stuff, and usually crap.

The theory I do agree with is the guys that take durable (but expensive) stuff that can serve multipurpose. These are the guys that actually DO have some experience and know what they're doing.

Me, I take the minimalist, not the ultralight approach. I like bombproof stuff, and I like traditional stuff. Total skin-out weight (4 season) is 34 pounds. BUT, that also includes food and water (gallon and a half).

Sorry, but it miffs me when the UL guys brag about how little they carry and then add the disclaimer: "doesn't include food and water". Yeah, that's nice. Then it's not what you carry. Yeah, I could brag about my gear weighing 18 pounds (remember, 4 season, I guess we can conclude that ULers stay in during the winter, since I never see the 4 season kit's weight?) if I remove the 12 pounds of water and 4 pounds of food that I start out with.
 
There always has to be a guy like that. The topic of this thread probably put you on alert to chime in and state your opinion. I backpacked in Grand Canyon in 20 degree weather and do quite often. You are wrong in many ways about your ideas of us Ultralight guys. Most people that get to the ultralight side do so out of experience carring heavy gear and want comfort on the trail. I don't brag and have not ever stated my views of light backpacking on this W&S forum but the thread called for it. Like I said there is always a guy like this. I won't be participating in this argument anymore.


Happy Birthday Hollowdweller!
 
Sorry, dude, but I said there was TWO kinds of UL guys.
I do remember specifically mentioning the kind that KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING, and how they contrasted with the kind I simply don't agree with.

This may sound harsh, but I'm tired of being told I don't know what I'm talking about.
If you don't like the fact that I don't like jackasses that go out with crap gear, mooch off others and put themselves (and some SAR guys) in danger, yet I HAVE NO PROBLEM with guys that choose good (if light) gear, and the know-how to use it, too bad.
 
The reason people post without food and water weights is because that is a constant. You basically cannot change those weights. The idea is to change the weight of your gear, not your food etc.

Also for every UL whose gear falls apart or whatever their are 50 lunks who show up with too much gear. Go to the PCT and see the amount of people who start with the heavy loads and A. leave their gear everywhere in route to their next stop. B. Actually have family members purchase them lighter gear etc. to make it the rest of the way.

I've seem many a disgruntled backpacker with his 60lb pack sitting at the post office waiting for a ride to quite the trail.

What's important is, that most of the people on this board are not those type of people!!! So pointing it out goes nowhere. It's like going to a gun board and bitching about gun laws.....you're preaching to the choir.

:D

H
 
hutch762mg said:
The reason people post without food and water weights is because that is a constant. You basically cannot change those weights. The idea is to change the weight of your gear, not your food etc.
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Fine, but let's not be misleading. A lot of guys (even here) will tell you how they pack out with a 5, 8, 11, etc pound load. But when you add the water in their 2 Nalgenes (just picking a number), there's another 4 pounds. Plus their food. So now that 11 pounds is a lot more like 18.
While we're at it, why not explore losing water and food weight? Some guys address this by taking dehydrated food, but then you need more water. So what do you do? Most ULers I see claim a water filter is too much weight, so they do what? Use purification tabs? Boil? If you boild, maybe it's less weigth to take tabs and drink from your nalgenes rather than carry a pot or cup?

hutch762mg said:
Also for every UL whose gear falls apart or whatever their are 50 lunks who show up with too much gear. Go to the PCT and see the amount of people who start with the heavy loads and A. leave their gear everywhere in route to their next stop. B. Actually have family members purchase them lighter gear etc. to make it the rest of the way.
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Neve said there weren't dumbasses on the other end. But that's more a discussion for the "Who likes to hump 80 pound packs?" thread.

hutch762mg said:
What's important is, that most of the people on this board are not those type of people!!! So pointing it out goes nowhere.
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Maybe, maybe not.
But since the ULers like to point out how they'd never carry a hatchet/kukri/whatever because it's too heavy, and they see too many guys huffing and puffing down the trail because of their 2 pound knife, it's only fair to point out the UL types that have blowouts and have to mooch essential gear that they should have been carrying. If we're going to mention both sides of the heavy story, every time, then don't cry when the dark side of the UL is mentioned.
 
Point taken.

By the way I don't carry a hatchet/chopper/kukri cause I've never needed to use one. Not because of it's weight. Hell I think they are cool as shit, I just don't need one. The exception is a machete in the Jungla, but that's just to get around. But all that is personal preference not a challenge of those that do.

Peace out,

H
 
I never knew there where that many ultralight moochers

I travel the outdoors alot and have never come across a ultralight moocher. However I do come across exhausted or injured people for carrying to much weight.

I am not criticizing people who like to carry more. I used to be one of them. But when you experience ultralight it puts a whole new perspective on the outdoors, which I find enjoyable.
 
Not to hijack this probably deserves a thread unto itself but I'd be interested in finding a way to enjoy good hot meals but still keep things on the lighter side (in terms of carrying food)
 
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