Does Anyone NOT Love The Sebenza ?

[cbxer55]

And I'm happy for you. But you're not qualified to say their edge-holding sucks, you just said you've never had one. Unless you used someone else's extensively, you don't really know. I have used mine pretty hard, and can tell you it holds an edge just fine. I love the Military, also. But I can promise you this, three or four later, it will still not be the same value as a Sebenza. I got this one around the same time as the Sebenza, and I love it, but it's not even close to the Reeve.

Again, I don't expect everybody to love the Sebenza, but you simply cannot deny the long-term, as well as initial, quality and precision of the knife.

Sam :thumbup:

I have read several posts on this thread where the poster said edge holding sucked. That is what I am going on, not my own personal experience. If I read that a few people think edge holding sucks, it re-enforces my decision not to ever pay the large sum of money for an inferior product.

 

[cbxer55]

Yeah, that's why I got a Military. Because I wanted the same edge length as a Sebenza, but with an unnecessarily large handle and thin liner lock. Oh, and tip down only. :barf:

Actually, I didn't get a Military. I read on the internet that I wouldn't like it, and I think they are ugly.

I have big hands, thus I prefer knives with big handles. I also prefer tip down over tip up. Don't really like tip up at all, but tolerate it on really large knives such as Cold Steel's, especially if they open with a wave like feature such as the Espada's. With top down, my thumb is already in the hole before I even take the knife out of my pocket. Try that with a tip up. Can't do it. My tip up knives all gather lots of dust.

I've got three Military's, one of them near 20 years old. Those three did not cost what one CRK does. When I order one more, it'll be close though.

 

[elkins45]

Second, how many production knives have a lubricant chosen/designed just for it?

I don't think many people share your viewpoint that this is a 'feature'. My knives work just fine with regular lube.

When Reeve licenses the Spyderhole from Sal then I might buy one, but even then I doubt it.

 

[Sam Wilson]

I have read several posts on this thread where the poster said edge holding sucked. That is what I am going on, not my own personal experience. If I read that a few people think edge holding sucks, it re-enforces my decision not to ever pay the large sum of money for an inferior product.

Again, if you don't want a Sebenza, that's great. I'm not telling you to get one. But when you call a product "inferior" that has set the standard for excellence, and probably has more manufacturing quality awards than anyone else (maybe even combined), you're destroying your own credibility. Especially when that is based off of "several posts on this thread where the poster said edge holding sucked."

If you don't like one, or want one, please buy what makes you happy. The reason Mr. Reeve has given for running the steel softer than some would like is for ease of sharpening. Of course you are going to sacrifice some edge holding for that. But calling it inferior is similar to saying crumple zones on a vehicle are poorly made because they give way in a collision. Insulting someone's product only because it doesn't perform the way YOU want it to, only embarrasses you. Especially when that opinion is based on some posts on the interwebz.

Sam

 

[zl1]

I dunno that the edge retention "sucks" or the edge just isn't keen enough for phonebook paper. In my experience, knives cut a long time...

 

[Charlie Mike]

[video=youtube;Wo9wpzXa_P4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo9wpzXa_P4[/video]

 

[jazub]

...The reason Mr. Reeve has given for running the steel softer than some would like is for ease of sharpening...

Correct me if I am wrong but one of the initial reasons given for the steel change to S35vn (in the marketing) was that it was easier to polish and less abrasive to Reeve's machinery. Of course these are not features at all to anybody but the maker and have been abandoned in the literature in favor of "increased toughness" (i.e., softness).

I had one for about 6 months and it was cool despite being off-center brand new. All of the tolerance talk is fine but I don't have microscopes for eyes, so the tight tolerances of my off-center blade were a moot point. Cool knife but all the perfection talk leading up to an imperfect $435 product left me cold.

To each his own. It's cool that anybody enjoys his knife but it is simply a pocket knife, after all. There is no special perception of quality or finer things required to know whether one enjoys it or not.

 

[mcrow]

Does anyone know if Chris Reeve heat treat is Higher or any different on recent batches. This is the only thing holding me back and I don't want to be held back. I also don't like how far over the lockup is. Besides this and his warranty I am sold. These video's is what sold me for sure, it also shows that Chris doesn't seem to be as much of a douche as people claim. One more thing, I would rather have a nice midtech for the same price of a custom. Custom's scare me because of the hassle of the maker to have time to deal with any problems you have with their knives, sometimes there just isn't enough time for independent custom makers to even reply to an email with a decent time frame. Anyways if these video's don't convince you of the extra time put into these made in USA knives nothing will. I work in a machine shop, and the work put into all the separate parts of these knives is not cheap. To hold the tolerances he demands, you have to have skilled workers on your payroll and this also and this also comes at a price. Like a poster already claimed not many knife makers will want you to take a knife apart, because they might not go back together correctly. With tight tolerances and consistency this is not a worry for Reeve who backs all his knives. Being able to take apart and clean a folder is a big deal to me. This is also why is like washers and not the IKBS bearing system.
[video=youtube_share;4QiEnhA3n0A]http://youtu.be/4QiEnhA3n0A[/video]
[video=youtube_share;Nj6p8p6vfZQ]http://youtu.be/Nj6p8p6vfZQ[/video]

Makes me want to own one. Lots of hands on attention for those knives and attention to detail.

 

[Hairlesstwinkie]

I've owned a Large Classic in S30V, a Large 21 in S35VN, a 25, a Small Insingo, and an old pivot Umnumzaan.

Out of all of those CRKs, I only have the Zaan. I wish I didn't sell my Classic to fund the 21. Back in my ignorant days when I was just a steel snob, I figured S35VN would be better than S30V. boy was I wrong. I kept the Zaan because I like the design and I've found that even though the S30V is ran softer than I like, it's still better than the S35VN. S35VN was a very under performing steel for me after months of EDCing and occasional knife testing. I've tried to like the Sebenzas, but they just never grew on me because I've found that my Benchmade 710 in M390, Spyderco Southard Flipper in CTS-204P, Microtech Socom Elite in S35VN, Spyderco Techno in CTS-XHP, Spyderco PM2 in S30V, Zero Tolerance 0801 in Elmax, Zero Tolerance 0777 in M390, Delica 4/Centofante 3/ Superleaf in VG-10, Benchmade 746 in 154 CM and Cold Steel Mini-AK47 in Aus-8 to perform better than the softer ran S35VN that's on the Sebenzas. Yes, I have watched the "Meet Your Maker" video from BladeHQ a few months back. I understand that Mr. Reeve wants the user to have an easier time on sharpening their knives, but you can achieve the same with Aus 8 and 154 CM. I can get my Aus-8 far sharper than S35VN and the edge retention would be pretty similar. The few knives I've listed as my alternatives cost fraction of what a CRK would cost and I get much more enjoyment out of them. Sure fit and finish of CRK are absolutely perfect, but I would rather have a longer lasting edge than a tight tolerance knife. Speaking of tight tolerance, I've found my Techno, Southard, and 0801 to have rather impressive fit and finish for their price point. I would almost dare to say rival CRKs especially with the Techno and the 0801. Also, I was extremely disappointed at the thumbstuds. They're way too pointy for my fingers. Another reason why I like my Zaan better. I guess for the price I have a certain amount of expectations. CRKs didn't meet my expectations. It reminded me of my buddy's Maserati QP: expensive, high maintenance, and the parts are stupid expensive.

 

[Planterz]

I'd have more interest in a Sebenza if they got with the times and incorporated advancements made since Chris Reeve invented the frame lock 25 or so years ago. Namely Rick Hinderer's lockbar stabilizer and the adjustable/replaceable lockbar face.

 

[bearcut]

I'd have more interest in a Sebenza if they got with the times and incorporated advancements made since Chris Reeve invented the frame lock 25 or so years ago. Namely Rick Hinderer's lockbar stabilizer and the adjustable/replaceable lockbar face.

Exactly.

And get rid of the machining hole in the handle, nobody else does that anymore.

 

[DShiflet]

Teenagers are generally disappointed in the Sebenza because it doesn't have the newest, toughest steel (as determined by the internet metallurgists) and the scariest profile. No,the kids who fantasize about fights between Superman and Batman aren't going to appreciate the nuances in fit and finish offered by the Sebenza. There are exceptions. But generally, appreciation of Sebenzas come with experience.

Wow, we sure are big on generalizations, aren't we? My Spyderco Native doesn't have the "newest toughest steel", just S30V. It doesn't have a "scary profile", either, I don't think you're gonna see too many mall ninjas whipping out a Native to impress their mall ninja friends. It cost me $80, and performed just as well as the Sebenza I was loaned awhile back. Just like the Sebenza it has no blade play, locks up perfectly, but it also felt more comfortable in hand. Okay, I confess, 10 years down the line it may not hold up like the Sebenza does(emphasis on may, when I was a kid I had some no name folder I paid like $5 for, and after carrying it for around 5 years it was still holding up surprisingly enough)...of course, even if my Native breaks down in 5 years I can also just by another(or 3 others), and STILL pay less than I did for ONE less comfortable Sebenza, so I'm willing to take the risk.

Oh, and speaking of Superman, maybe if I had Superman's microscopic vision so I could see those super tolerances the Sebby would seem nicer, but with my normal human vision I sure as hell didn't see them making a difference in actual use.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Seb's aren't well made, I know they're made to a high standard. I know the fit and finish is great, I know they're made with super tight tolerances, I know Chris puts plenty of effort into his knives. That said, after trying one, along with plenty of other, cheaper knives, I don't think those standards make a big enough difference in either use or feel to justify the price tag. If you do, cool, it's your perogative and I'm happy that you found your ideal knife. For me, I've found knives(not just the Native) that I appreciate more, and I am perfectly content to stick with them. And no, it's not because of super ultra steel(S30V is the highest end steel I own), and no, it's not because they have scary profiles(sure, I own big "scary" Cold Steel knives that I bought for fun, but those aren't the knives I'm referring to), despite your assertions to the contrary.

 

[snellvilleblade]

Way over rated...i got a small one to see what's it all about. It's sitting in the drawer because there's nothing special about it. Maybe i don't know how to appreciated his craftmanship. I prefer my para 2

 

[Tripton]

I have big hands, thus I prefer knives with big handles. I also prefer tip down over tip up. Don't really like tip up at all, but tolerate it on really large knives such as Cold Steel's, especially if they open with a wave like feature such as the Espada's. With top down, my thumb is already in the hole before I even take the knife out of my pocket. Try that with a tip up. Can't do it. My tip up knives all gather lots of dust.

I've got three Military's, one of them near 20 years old. Those three did not cost what one CRK does. When I order one more, it'll be close though.

I do not have those issues. My hands are large enough that even with large knives, my thumb still hits the stud/hole when carrying tip down. I would never carry a Cold Steel Espada, but I do have a Rajah 1 that I got on clearance. I see what you mean, but I wouldn't carry that ridiculous hideous potmetal beast, either.


I wouldn't even mind the handle on the Military if the blade were more proportionate to the handle. And tip up. And the Military clip sucks. (I actually DID have a M4 Military.)

 

[Tripton]

I'd have more interest in a Sebenza if they got with the times and incorporated advancements made since Chris Reeve invented the frame lock 25 or so years ago. Namely Rick Hinderer's lockbar stabilizer and the adjustable/replaceable lockbar face.

That"s the thing...

They don't really need either of those things. Every CRK that I have had has NO blade play whatsoever, and all the ones that I have used extensively have not changed their lockup at ALL. The ceramic ball, in particular. When you have perfected the mechanism, there really is no reason to get all gimmicky with it.



Of course, that isnt to say that Hinderers are gimmicky. The stabilizer is a brilliant device...when properly used, such as on Hinderers with their very early lock up. I've noticed that on other knives with the Hinderer stabilizer, many times the lock up is late enough that the stabilizer actually hangs over the engaged lockbar, turning it into a lockbar overtravel stop, and NOT a stabilizer. My ZT0300 is like this, but it doesnt need a stabilizer anyway.

 

[Tripton]

Exactly.

And get rid of the machining hole in the handle, nobody else does that anymore.

Check out the Sebenza 25 or Umnumzaan. No hole.

Wow, we sure are big on generalizations, aren't we? My Spyderco Native doesn't have the "newest toughest steel", just S30V. It doesn't have a "scary profile", either, I don't think you're gonna see too many mall ninjas whipping out a Native to impress their mall ninja friends. It cost me $80, and performed just as well as the Sebenza I was loaned awhile back. Just like the Sebenza it has no blade play, locks up perfectly, but it also felt more comfortable in hand. Okay, I confess, 10 years down the line it may not hold up like the Sebenza does(emphasis on may, when I was a kid I had some no name folder I paid like $5 for, and after carrying it for around 5 years it was still holding up surprisingly enough)...of course, even if my Native breaks down in 5 years I can also just by another(or 3 others), and STILL pay less than I did for ONE less comfortable Sebenza, so I'm willing to take the risk.

Oh, and speaking of Superman, maybe if I had Superman's microscopic vision so I could see those super tolerances the Sebby would seem nicer, but with my normal human vision I sure as hell didn't see them making a difference in actual use.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Seb's aren't well made, I know they're made to a high standard. I know the fit and finish is great, I know they're made with super tight tolerances, I know Chris puts plenty of effort into his knives. That said, after trying one, along with plenty of other, cheaper knives, I don't think those standards make a big enough difference in either use or feel to justify the price tag. If you do, cool, it's your perogative and I'm happy that you found your ideal knife. For me, I've found knives(not just the Native) that I appreciate more, and I am perfectly content to stick with them. And no, it's not because of super ultra steel(S30V is the highest end steel I own), and no, it's not because they have scary profiles(sure, I own big "scary" Cold Steel knives that I bought for fun, but those aren't the knives I'm referring to), despite your assertions to the contrary.

That is funny. The first comment that I had (and several after) about a Spyderco Native was "That looks like it is made to stab people with." followed by "Nice mall ninja knife." Granted, both of those were from my little brother.

Still, the Native isn't even the same ballpark, league, sport as a Sebenza, but who would expect it to be for $40 from Wal-Mart?

 

[Tony8179]

Still, the Native isn't even the same ballpark, league, sport as a Sebenza, but who would expect it to be for $40 from Wal-Mart?

As far as what? It cuts just like a Sebenza, folds just like a Sebenza, and clips inside the pocket just like a Sebenza. Actually, the cutting edge lasts longer than a Sebenza, but it can't be taken apart as easily.

 

[jacktrades_nbk]

I handled one, it's not my kind of knife. Not bad, just not my style.

 

[Tripton]

As far as what? It cuts just like a Sebenza, folds just like a Sebenza, and clips inside the pocket just like a Sebenza. Actually, the cutting edge lasts longer than a Sebenza, but it can't be taken apart as easily.

If you see no differences between a titanium framelock with .0005 tolerances, and a pinned construction FRN lockback with no liners... then I don't think I will be able to explain it to you.

The s30v in the Native did not hold a better edge than any of my CRKs. They did come with omnidirectional blade play though.

 

[Tony8179]

If you see no differences between a titanium framelock with .0005 tolerances, and a pinned construction FRN lockback with no liners... then I don't think I will be able to explain it to you.

The s30v in the Native did not hold a better edge than any of my CRKs. They did come with omnidirectional blade play though.

Please, try to explain as I would love to hear it?

If you think those differences are putting those two knives not even in the same league or sport when it comes to actually using them, then I've got this bridge that you just have to own. I've paid what I consider big dollars for knives, but I am under no impression that a $1,000 custom is going to do magical tasks that an $80 FRN, pinned, no liner Spyderco Stretch can't. Neither will the $400 Sebenza with a soft heat treat.