Does anyone prefer stainless steel over cv steel?

[Tixx]

Why are non-stainless referred to as Carbon and stainless (which may contain more carbon) only referred to as Stainless.

 

[Ken44]

I assume you're talking about Case only.
I prefer CV over their SS, and wish they made more models in CV. Two of my favorite Case knives are my Regular and Mini Copperlock in CV.

you can include others besides case.

While I prefer Case CV over their SS I much prefer a very good SS over a carbon steel.
On a higher end knife, or on a custom I want a good SS, or D2 which is as close to a stainless as you can get.
I have no problem sharpening a good SS, or D2.

 

[JAlexander]

Why are non-stainless referred to as Carbon and stainless (which may contain more carbon) only referred to as Stainless.

Because it's traditional, mostly. Stainless is the defining characteristic of such steels, at least around here, no matter how much carbon steel they have.

And I prefer steels that patinate easily, except for D2. I like it a lot, but it's nearly stainless.

 

[jazub]

Stainless all the way. I have a lot of 1095 traditional knives and coming back to one that's been out of rotation and finding that the last time I touched it planted the seeds of present red rust is very aggravating. Maybe a one-knife-guy would have an easier time keeping an eye on maintenance. I am not that guy. My cup of knives runneth over!

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Why are non-stainless referred to as Carbon and stainless (which may contain more carbon) only referred to as Stainless.

I think the 'carbon steel' expression may've come about because carbon is basically the only major alloying element in non-stainless steels, whereas stainless has other alloying elements thrown in, the primary being chromium at ~12-13% or more (minimum needed to be classified as 'stainless steel').

So-called 'carbon' steel is kind of non-specific anyway, as ALL stainless and non-stainless steels are carbon steels. The word 'steel' is literally defined as the alloy of iron + carbon, so the expression 'carbon steel' is technically redundant. When most of us knife/steel nuts refer to 'carbon steel', the implied association is usually to non-stainless steel. Many non-stainless steels do often have other alloying elements in them, such as vanadium, tungsten, molybdenum and small amounts of chromium and other elements, but the chromium content is what makes the difference. If it's present in the alloy at all, it's usually at levels much lower than found in stainless steels (often less than 1%). 1095 steel is essentially just iron & carbon, with no chromium at all, and very small amounts of other elements included. Case's CV does have a tiny bit of chromium thrown in, but at less than 1%, and some vanadium and other trace elements as well, in similar quantity or even less. D2 steel is technically non-stainless, but almost stainless nevertheless, with chromium content at around 10.5-11%.

Some iron alloys referred to as 'steel' don't actually meet the literal definition (iron + carbon, at a minimum), because some makers substitute other elements for the carbon, which makes the alloy essentially rust-proof.


David

 

[midnight flyer]

I do have a fair number of non-stainless blades, and I grew up using non-stainless. But I like stainless steel for its ease of care. I carry a traditional pocket knife because the blade shapes found in traditional knives are more useful for most of the things for which I use a knife (food prep not one of them). Patina is only black rust to me, so I prefer stainless when I can find one which performs well. 440C, ATS-34, and 14-4 CrMo all work really well for me. D2 is almost stainless, and I like that alloy also. What can I say, I'm a steel junky at heart.

I agree to all of that. The only reason I stayed away from stainless so long is that in my early experience with stainless pocket knives by CASE in the 70s I found it to be less than useless.

But now I find I can't separate the two as far as utility value goes, so I have a lot of stainless. I am on the same side as Frank with the patina issue... discoloration, staining and oxidation don't translate to a protective coating on carbon steel. I know from previous posts that many here have never seen carbon steel rust with just the tiniest amount of preventative care (or in some cases none at all) but that hasn't been my experience. I was ready for stainless to be used on pocket knives, but it seems they took about 40+ years to get where it is today.

I love the low maintenance factor or stainless and the ability of the newer stainless and near stainless to take a keen edge and hold it. I have a lot of D2 on different brands of knives and patterns, and love the stuff. The D2 I have in my Queen folders has been the best compromise of ease of sharpening to excellent utility in use I have seen in years. I have some offshore offerings that are a step above RR but from that region that are in stainless, and they will easily out perform their stainless or carbon domestic cousins. They have turned out to be excellent work knives.

To be able to go a few days without a care for the knife in your pocket is a good thing. I appreciate it all summer long. I still sweat enough toxicity to get spots of rust on my semi stainless, and even low end stainless, but it is easily removed. Still, when the weather is cold and I am not out in it except for light work or to goof around I like to carry some of my old carbon. My oldest are CASE knives from the 60s and 70s, and while the steel is pretty soft compared to today's standards I really appreciate how well built those knives are and it makes me happy to carry them just for that.

Robert

 

[Tixx]

I think the 'carbon steel' expression may've come about because carbon is basically the only major alloying element in non-stainless steels, whereas stainless has other alloying elements thrown in, the primary being chromium at ~12-13% or more (minimum needed to be classified as 'stainless steel').

So-called 'carbon' steel is kind of non-specific anyway, as ALL stainless and non-stainless steels are carbon steels. The word 'steel' is literally defined as the alloy of iron + carbon, so the expression 'carbon steel' is technically redundant. When most of us knife/steel nuts refer to 'carbon steel', the implied association is usually to non-stainless steel. Many non-stainless steels do often have other alloying elements in them, such as vanadium, tungsten, molybdenum and small amounts of chromium and other elements, but the chromium content is what makes the difference. If it's present in the alloy at all, it's usually at levels much lower than found in stainless steels (often less than 1%). 1095 steel is essentially just iron & carbon, with no chromium at all, and very small amounts of other elements included. Case's CV does have a tiny bit of chromium thrown in, but at less than 1%, and some vanadium and other trace elements as well, in similar quantity or even less. D2 steel is technically non-stainless, but almost stainless nevertheless, with chromium content at around 10.5-11%.

Some iron alloys referred to as 'steel' don't actually meet the literal definition (iron + carbon, at a minimum), because some makers substitute other elements for the carbon, which makes the alloy essentially rust-proof.


David

Thanks JAlexander and David!

 

[Will Power]

All the stainless fans coming out of the closet now

I like both the steels but for different reasons/situations. Carbon types for fixed blades (easy to clean, no fouling in joints etc) carbon pocket knives in garden use, sap, gum etc easier to get off carbon for some reason and the oily rag works....Stainless for cutting up raw consumed foods, if you cook it you obviously wont taste that foul metallic twang- it never goes away however much patina! It stains fruits too, so my Opinel inox 8 or other French knives, CASE Slimline Trapper are my food knives. I enjoy cutting slices of meats,cheese and fruits with a stainless pocket knife, more 'personal' Queen D2 works a treat on this too, no taste either.

 

[midnight flyer]

All the stainless fans coming out of the closet now

I almost fell out of my chair when I read that because I was laughing so hard. No kidding!!

I never knew...

Robert

 

[lightskyam]

Stainless all the way. I have a lot of 1095 traditional knives and coming back to one that's been out of rotation and finding that the last time I touched it planted the seeds of present red rust is very aggravating. Maybe a one-knife-guy would have an easier time keeping an eye on maintenance. I am not that guy. My cup of knives runneth over!

I've yet to try a cv or non stainless steel knife, and I will some day, but right now I just like having a little knife in my pocket that I don't have to worry much about. I basically use it for cutting a piece of fruit, string, or whittling some branches so a simple wipe down and it's good to go.

 

[Stelth]

I buy only stainless steel. I hate the way patinas look and I hate rust even more.

 

[lightskyam]

How's 01 tool steel? Does it rust easily?

 

[jwren]

In my experience, it patinas quicker and easier than CV and 1095, but not sure if this is always the case....

 

[knarfeng]

Why are non-stainless referred to as Carbon and stainless (which may contain more carbon) only referred to as Stainless.

It's a misnomer. Strictly speaking "Carbon Steel" means alloys consisting of iron, carbon, manganese.
The official definition is:

The American Iron and Steel Institute (AISI) defines carbon steel as follows:Steel is considered to be carbon steel when no minimum content is specified or required for chromium, cobalt, columbium [niobium], molybdenum, nickel, titanium, tungsten, vanadium or zirconium, or any other element to be added to obtain a desired alloying effect;

http://www.keytometals.com/Articles/Art62.htm

Other alloys which are not stainless such as O1 and CV are technically "low alloy steels", steels containing less than 10% of elements other than Carbon, Iron, and Manganese. (the official percentage of alloying elements varies depending on who you ask.)

A lot of blades are made from true "carbon steel", and they discolor and rust pretty much like "low alloy steel", so the low alloy steel is often called "carbon steel", even though technically it is not.

 

[ptradeco]

If the question is exactly as asked, SS vs. CV then I will take the good SS's always. If you are asking SS vs. Generally Used Definition of Carbon Steel then the answer is: Why yes, yes I do, except when I don't. I prefer SS when the knife is going to get somewhat abused by elements, lack of care; the couple in the toolbox of my truck and tackle box, for example, or say dressy knives or knives I am going to cut up food with. But, I often split the difference and roll with D2. Just about the best all around steel, for me and my preferences, I have ever come across. And then, most of my straight knives are O1 and 52100. I like the edges you can put on them and relatively fast. If you are in hunting camp and cleaning a bunch of game and similar tasks I want a blade that I can whip into shape pretty quick but still get a keen edge. BTW, for you patina aficionados, O1 gets about the prettiest patina I have ever seen. Just like certain patterns and blade profiles work better than others for certain tasks the same can be said of steels.

 

[TLARbb]

All the stainless fans coming out of the closet now

I like both the steels but for different reasons/situations. Carbon types for fixed blades (easy to clean, no fouling in joints etc) carbon pocket knives in garden use, sap, gum etc easier to get off carbon for some reason and the oily rag works....Stainless for cutting up raw consumed foods, if you cook it you obviously wont taste that foul metallic twang- it never goes away however much patina! It stains fruits too, so my Opinel inox 8 or other French knives, CASE Slimline Trapper are my food knives. I enjoy cutting slices of meats,cheese and fruits with a stainless pocket knife, more 'personal' Queen D2 works a treat on this too, no taste either.

That would be me too, I guess. I would prefer that traditional knife manufacturers would use higher grade stainless steels in their blades (and springs as well), but, I would not turn down a nice traditional with carbon (stainmore) steel, if it were not offered in stainless. Indeed, the last 7 knives I have purchased have been GEC knives with 1095. Nor, would I whine about a manufacturer using 440C, ATS-34, VG-10 or some of the Sandvick cutlery steels and not 1095. As I have said before, I like knives with carbon steel blades and I like knives with stainless blades. I own and use both including the (infamous it seems) Tru-Sharp.

To me, it's all good. We have a bewildering array of quality cutlery available to us now. Even though some of the old manufacturers are gone, a lot of the better stuff they made wasn't really widely available to folks, particularly rural folks like myself. Or, maybe I wasn't as much of a knut as I am today. Idunno, maybe that's it.

Ed J

 

[Will Power]

Good points Ed.

And it is always good to have choices for different tasks. The Sandvik stainless you can find on fixed blades or French folding knives satisfies me, pity more US manufacturers don't offer it. But, I suppose as an import steel, it's expensive etc.

 

[stockdog]

I like carbon but due to things like location, weather, sweat and chemicals it does not fit my work and there for forced to prefer stainless steel over cv steel. If I carry one of my old timers it will have black spots by the end of the day and if I don’t scotch bright and oil it will have non removable pits by the end of the week. On the other side my Dad carries his old LLB branded old timer with little maintenance and it is light gray. I have both and some get enjoyed without using them.

If Buck is high carbon what makes it stainless? Thanks
I have good luck with Buck 301 at work with minimal maintenance.

Bob

 

[lightskyam]

I like carbon but due to things like location, weather, sweat and chemicals it does not fit my work and there for forced to prefer stainless steel over cv steel. If I carry one of my old timers it will have black spots by the end of the day and if I don’t scotch bright and oil it will have non removable pits by the end of the week. On the other side my Dad carries his old LLB branded old timer with little maintenance and it is light gray. I have both and some get enjoyed without using them.

If Buck is high carbon what makes it stainless? Thanks
I have good luck with Buck 301 at work with minimal maintenance.

Bob

I was looking into the 301 myself but not sure I would use all three blades that come with it. Little maintenance is a good thing, and sometimes you just want to use the knife and put it back in your pocket or sheath with no worries.

 

[TLARbb]

Buck uses 420 stainless in their blades. Most all cutlery stainless is high carbon. It is the chromium (primarily) and nickel content generally that make a "stainless" steel.

Ed J