Does anyone use Arkansas stones without oil.

Slightly off topic, but since cleaning stones was mentioned, I've had good luck cleaning stones with aerosol brake cleaner. It removes residual oil and blasts any particles of metal from the surface of the stone.
 
x39 said:
Slightly off topic, but since cleaning stones was mentioned, I've had good luck cleaning stones with aerosol brake cleaner. It removes residual oil and blasts any particles of metal from the surface of the stone.
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Exactly what I do. And it works great.


Use the CORRECT honing oil on your stones for the best results. Kerosene is an excellent alternative. Use water on diamond bench stones.

Everyone here seems to have different views on what works best on what stone. My theory is to follow the manufacturers recommendations, and adjust from there. When I was serving my apprenticeship in machine tool grinding, my mentor used both honing oil, and kerosene on his stones, and I use the same on mine. Works great.
 
Thank you gentlemen for all of your thoughtful responses. The oil I have used is the A.G. Russell honing oil that came with the stones. I have learned a great deal from this thread, and as often happens when one learns, one has more questions. If I try using the black (hard) arkansas stone without honing oil, and I find that it has clogged, is it then fairly simple to use the oil to clean it (or clean it with Bartenders Friend or similar) or will I have ruined the stone? Also, is the edge put on the knife with a black stone similar to what a fine water stone, or to the fine stone from Juranitch creates? Thanks again for you help.

Richard
 
Richard - ask a simple "yes or no" question about sharpening and you're bound to get at least half a dozen different answers. :)

Like Jdee said, there are stones and there are stones, and I think this is probably true among Arkansas stones as well. Given that you've got hard and soft, black, translucent, "lily white" and whatever other colors/flavors, plus just the fact that these are natural stones with all kinds of possible mineral inclusions and other variations, I guess really it doesn't surprise me that one guy's Arkansas stone works well dry, and the other guy's doesn't.

And even though I've personally never had much luck using stones dry, before I could dismiss Juranitch offhand, I'd like to know what kind of stones he was using, way back when he first published his findings, and maybe know something about how his Razor Edge brand hones are made.

Anyway, only thing I have to add regarding cleaning stones is that I've had excellent results using Naval Jelly, which is acidic and will etch away metal embedded in the pores of the stone. I've done this with fine India and ceramic, and am *assuming* it would work on Arkansas stones without doing any harm. But YMMV.

Dave
 
I always have used Arkies with water only. In my experience, it works just as well as oil, and water's a lot easier to have around in the bush. If needed, spitting on the stone works just fine. ;)

For other non-Arkie stones, I prefer dry. I used the same stone for everything at work for about a decade, and it still hasn't dished or worn appreciably. I've worked chisels on that thing, reflatted and edged flatbars, and of course knives. It's worn, chipped, and needs a really good cleaning, but it has never failed.
 
I guess I’m old school, or maybe just old, but all this technical stuff is lost on me. I just do what works for me. I’ve sharpened my knives for decades and for me spit works best on a pocket hone and I use oil on all my large stones except one. That one is a large very fine Arkansas that I use just before I use a razor strop.
 
I would like to think I have good reasons for doing what I do, but I frankly can't remember how I developed these habits:

Soft Washita stone- Dry, sometimes with water. I believe I've also tried WD-40.
Medium and Hard Arkansas- WD-40, RemOil, 3-in-1 or "honing" oil. Clean up with gasoline or lighter fluid and a stiff brush.
Arkansas Black- Dry. I never feel as though I'm really sharpening with the black stone- I mostly just use it as a diagnostic to see how well I've polished the edge.

I will never claim to be the most expert sharpener here, but the above methods work for me. YMMV. ;)
 
Keith Montgomery said:
So Mike, are you saying that you use a combination of honing oil and kerosene?
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No, Keith, I use mainly a light honing oil (can't remember the name of it), or I'll use kerosene if I'm out of oil. Not both at the same time.
 
There are plenty of people around who say they've used their stones without oil, and like it better. On my arkansas stones, if I sharpen without oil, the stone fills up very quickly and stops cutting. So I use oil on 'em. I would suggest trying to use your stones without oil, and if that works for you, great. If not, oil 'em up.

I use no lubricant, neither water nor oil, on my synthetic and diamond hones. The thing about both these kinds of hones is that they clean up in seconds, so even when they do start clogging, no noxious chemicals are needed.


Joe
 
Richard, yes there are problems with trying oil and then going back to dry honing. The oil soaks into the stone and volatile components evaporate leaving a gummy residue in the stone. The gummy residue tends to stick to metal and stone particles causing the stone to clog fast and thoroughly. On artificial stones (I haven't noticed this on Arkansas stones) the oil softens the surface of the stone and causes it to wear faster and clog with stone residue.

You can undue the process by stripping the oil back out. Running the stones through the pots and pans cycle of the diswasher with plenty of dishwasher detergent is one thing that has worked for me. Don't wash other dishes at the same time. If you don't want to risk contaminating your dishwasher you can boil the hone in dishwasher detergent.

If you want to use a hone dry I have noticed that Bartenders Friend is a pretty good hone cleaner. I generally at least use water. If I think that the handle can tolerate alcohol exposure I sometimes hone with rubbing alcohol.
 
Richard Sommer said:
I remember reading somewhere that Arkansas stones can be used without lubricant if they are new and oil has never been used on them. I have a white and a black stone I bought years ago from A.G. Russell. I have used oil on the white stone, but I have never used the black one, just never could get my knives sharp enough to even try to use the black one. My sharpening skill have gotten better and i would like to use the black, but if it can be used without oil, I would certainly prefer that. Does anyone have experience with this? Also, is there a way to clean the white stone so that it can now be used without oil? Thanks for any input or thoughts.

Richard
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Richard:I was in the Arkansas Stone business for several years. I found that the largest problem with sharpening with any medium except light machine oil, was clogging the surface of the stones. I always suggested "Singers Sewing Machine Oil" If my own honing oil was not available, I ALWAYS warned against "3 in One oil", because if left on the stone it would congeal and make the stone unusable. Kerosene and WD-40 are both too thin for useful sharpening, fine for an emergency but not for regular use.

The real problem is that many people will NOT clean their blades before using the stone, and when you embed dried blood, fat, plant tissue into the surface of the stone you will then have to soak the stone in a mixture of water and muratic acid, the acid will eat foreign mater out of the surface and restore the stone. I have forgotten the proper mix, too much acid and it will eat the stone, too little and it will take forever to eat the trash.

It is important to stir the oil with your finger tip when you have finished sharpening, that raises the particles into the oil, then wipe the stone dry and when you next sharpen put a fresh coat of oil on the stone.

Lots of good advice in this thread, also a little BS, good work for your mind to figure out which is which.

all the best, A. G.
 
My $0.02: As Leonard Lee points out in his book there is second reason for the use of honing oil, other than floating swarf away: Metal tends to chemically bind to an "abrasive", at higher temperatures worse than at low temperatures. Some metals more than others, aluminum is really bad, steel not nearly as much. In order to avoid the bonding action you need to keep the metal and the abrasive separated by a different phase: Oil works very well as separating agent. For the same reason cutting-oil is used for machining. If you don't use oil or a different separating agent (water doesn't work nearly as well) on an arkansas stone the particles in the stone will glaze over with a sheet of metal and will stop cutting. If you refinish your stone (lapping, abrasive scrubs or chemical abrasives) regularly, this is not a problem. If you want to avoid having to refinish your stone frequently you have to use some form of separating agent. A Japanese water stone doesn't need this as the release rate of abrasive particles is much faster than that of an Arkansas stone. The abrasive particles will be release and fresh ones exposed before glazing occurs. If you want to see how oil prevents glazing (to some extent) take a fine Dremel sanding stone/wheel and start sanding a piece of aluminum. Then soak a new wheel in plenty of cutting or honing oil and see the difference.
 
I think that HoB has provided the final piece of the puzzle about the usefulness of oil--it acts to prevent metal sticking onto the hone. All things considered I would expect better results when you use oil with an arkansas stone.
 
Gentlemen, Thank you all for your replies. They have been most informative. It seems from the general consesus in this thread that the best way to go with Arkansas stones is to use honing oil, so that is what I will do. If I understand it correctly, the finer the stone the less oil one should use, is this correct? I have been cleaning the stones after sharpening simply using dish detergent, water and a stiff brush. I see a number of you do that now, is this the best method or is something else more effective? Thanks again for all of your help.

Richard
 
I clean hones using a sink cleanser. Ideally I want to remove any glazed/polished look on the surface and any grey or black metal residue. I am not fanatical about it and don't really try and achieve a new looking surface. Bartender's Friend is actually a stainless steel sink cleanser and works great at removing steel residue. I have also had good luck using Revere's stainless steel pan cleaner.
 
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