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- Thread starter bmilla35
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If you find a branch low enough, you can ground layer. Cut about 1/3 through the branch at an angle. Place a small (Think toothpick.) piece of wood in the cut to keep it open. Dust with rooting hormone per directions. Bury cut section of branch in the ground (couple of bricks to hiold it down). If it roots, you should see branching coming up from the buried cut.
Cloning (AKA "tissue culture") involves reproducing the tree from a few cells. It's is fairly difficult but is done on a mass basis by the nursery industry. As a result, formerly rare species, like the mutation of White Spruce called "Alberta Spruce," have become common.
Discussed above is traditional grafting, rooting cuttings, and air layering.
There is also Approach Grafting. Two trees that are physically close (planted that way or involving one or both in pots) having exactly matching areas skinned off and the two hormone treated, pulled together, tied together, and sealed with grafting wax. If the graft takes, the undesired tree is cut off along with the undesired root stock -- bottom of one and top of the other remain.
Cloning (AKA "tissue culture") involves reproducing the tree from a few cells. It's is fairly difficult but is done on a mass basis by the nursery industry. As a result, formerly rare species, like the mutation of White Spruce called "Alberta Spruce," have become common.
Discussed above is traditional grafting, rooting cuttings, and air layering.
There is also Approach Grafting. Two trees that are physically close (planted that way or involving one or both in pots) having exactly matching areas skinned off and the two hormone treated, pulled together, tied together, and sealed with grafting wax. If the graft takes, the undesired tree is cut off along with the undesired root stock -- bottom of one and top of the other remain.
What a great idea and a great topic !!!!! There has been some good information posted already.
If I wanted some specific apple variety growing, I would graft pieces of this specific variety on to any old apple tree that I could get to grow in my area.
So you could plant any old apple tree to get the basic tree established...then graft the varieties you want on to these trees later. These host trees would be called the 'stock' in some books. Grafting is generally done around the time when the buds on the host plant are starting to swell toward springtime.
The wood you graft on to the tree (the 'scions' or cuttings) should be cut from the known variety in winter after the leaves have dropped. I store them in my fridge wrapped in a wet paper towel...stored in a plastic bag. I might occasionally inspect them and sprinkle a bit more water on them. In the old days they just used to jam the cuttings into the cold ground in the shade somewhere. I understand the best cuttings are wood that grew last season....ie...it is the newest growth on the tree and will be the terminal shoots on a branch. I cut the graft wood up to a foot long then cut a smaller length later to do the actual graft. That way the ends can dry out and maybe leave the rest with some good life-sustaining moisture inside. I think they say that you should have maybe 3 buds on a good bit of graft wood. Growth starts at the bud, and if you did a good job you might get away with using wood that had only one bud if you were pushed.
I learned grafting from books, but it would be good to find an expert to show you.
I tie the grafts in place with a couple of turns of electricians plastic tape. I seal the cuts with petroleum jelly, or maybe acrylic house paint. You can buy special grafting tape and sealing wax/paste.
The critical thing with grafting is to keep as much of the cambium layer of the stock and scion in close contact as you can. Having said that, I've found you can get away with very little contact and the graft will 'take' and the cuts heal.
I've had a lot of success grafting apples. I have quite a few different varieties growing around home that have been grafted. I'm particularly interested in types that keep well and that are disease resistant.
Gotta have a good, sharp knife to do grafting work. I often might use an old slim-bladed slip-joint folder that used to belong to my uncle. This is one time where something small is better than the big choppers.
So the first step is to maybe look to see if you have any wild apples in the area already that you can graft to. Failing that you could transplant any old seedling that you find anywhere. I believe that the best results will occur if you transplant apple trees when they are dormant after the leaves have dropped. Smaller trees are more likely to 'take' than very big trees...but anything is worth a try. If you've got plenty of time you could imitate Johnny Appleseed and plant seeds....but you'd need to plant plenty of them if you weren't going to specially treat them to help the germination (although the climate in your area may be very favorable to planting apple seed).
Here is a graft I did at home maybe two or three months ago. It is doing well. I've grafted the old variety 'court pendu plat' on to a tree that is mainly 'fairbelle':
Here is a primitive graft used to join a desirable prune plum scion on to a wild plum root stock (or whatever it was). As you may notice, the graft wood is not lined up with the cambium layer on the root stock on the side you can see....but it was carefully lined up on the side of the sapling that you can't see in the photo. I think I did this graft two seasons ago. All I did here was to cut the rootstock plant off at about six inches above the ground and split it with a knife. I then cut a long tapered wedge on the base of the scion wood and pushed it into the split rootstock. I then applied a sealant to the wound area. In the old days the sealant might have been nothing more than a mix based on wet clay, or maybe animal fat.
Apple trees can really only be grafted successfully on to other apple trees. New grafted wood needs to be protected from being pulled at by animals.
Most rapid growth occurs on the highest points of the tree/branch. You need to make sure that the shoots of the original tree dont overtake the new graft. These may release hormones which suppress the graft growth. I am fairly brutal with trimming back the old growth. Grafts on trimmed-back more mature trees can grow at a surprisingly fast rate. You have to make sure that these more vigorous branches don't grow beyond the point where the graft joint can hold them. It will be a few seasons before there is much strength in the join.
What a worthy idea. Planting trees is a wonderful thing to do. Best wishes with the project
If I wanted some specific apple variety growing, I would graft pieces of this specific variety on to any old apple tree that I could get to grow in my area.
So you could plant any old apple tree to get the basic tree established...then graft the varieties you want on to these trees later. These host trees would be called the 'stock' in some books. Grafting is generally done around the time when the buds on the host plant are starting to swell toward springtime.
The wood you graft on to the tree (the 'scions' or cuttings) should be cut from the known variety in winter after the leaves have dropped. I store them in my fridge wrapped in a wet paper towel...stored in a plastic bag. I might occasionally inspect them and sprinkle a bit more water on them. In the old days they just used to jam the cuttings into the cold ground in the shade somewhere. I understand the best cuttings are wood that grew last season....ie...it is the newest growth on the tree and will be the terminal shoots on a branch. I cut the graft wood up to a foot long then cut a smaller length later to do the actual graft. That way the ends can dry out and maybe leave the rest with some good life-sustaining moisture inside. I think they say that you should have maybe 3 buds on a good bit of graft wood. Growth starts at the bud, and if you did a good job you might get away with using wood that had only one bud if you were pushed.
I learned grafting from books, but it would be good to find an expert to show you.
I tie the grafts in place with a couple of turns of electricians plastic tape. I seal the cuts with petroleum jelly, or maybe acrylic house paint. You can buy special grafting tape and sealing wax/paste.
The critical thing with grafting is to keep as much of the cambium layer of the stock and scion in close contact as you can. Having said that, I've found you can get away with very little contact and the graft will 'take' and the cuts heal.
I've had a lot of success grafting apples. I have quite a few different varieties growing around home that have been grafted. I'm particularly interested in types that keep well and that are disease resistant.
Gotta have a good, sharp knife to do grafting work. I often might use an old slim-bladed slip-joint folder that used to belong to my uncle. This is one time where something small is better than the big choppers.
So the first step is to maybe look to see if you have any wild apples in the area already that you can graft to. Failing that you could transplant any old seedling that you find anywhere. I believe that the best results will occur if you transplant apple trees when they are dormant after the leaves have dropped. Smaller trees are more likely to 'take' than very big trees...but anything is worth a try. If you've got plenty of time you could imitate Johnny Appleseed and plant seeds....but you'd need to plant plenty of them if you weren't going to specially treat them to help the germination (although the climate in your area may be very favorable to planting apple seed).
Here is a graft I did at home maybe two or three months ago. It is doing well. I've grafted the old variety 'court pendu plat' on to a tree that is mainly 'fairbelle':
Here is a primitive graft used to join a desirable prune plum scion on to a wild plum root stock (or whatever it was). As you may notice, the graft wood is not lined up with the cambium layer on the root stock on the side you can see....but it was carefully lined up on the side of the sapling that you can't see in the photo. I think I did this graft two seasons ago. All I did here was to cut the rootstock plant off at about six inches above the ground and split it with a knife. I then cut a long tapered wedge on the base of the scion wood and pushed it into the split rootstock. I then applied a sealant to the wound area. In the old days the sealant might have been nothing more than a mix based on wet clay, or maybe animal fat.
Apple trees can really only be grafted successfully on to other apple trees. New grafted wood needs to be protected from being pulled at by animals.
Most rapid growth occurs on the highest points of the tree/branch. You need to make sure that the shoots of the original tree dont overtake the new graft. These may release hormones which suppress the graft growth. I am fairly brutal with trimming back the old growth. Grafts on trimmed-back more mature trees can grow at a surprisingly fast rate. You have to make sure that these more vigorous branches don't grow beyond the point where the graft joint can hold them. It will be a few seasons before there is much strength in the join.
What a worthy idea. Planting trees is a wonderful thing to do. Best wishes with the project
PS: In my experience apples are fairly tough trees, but you are going to buy some, I'd be wary of buying any fancy new variety. The tried and proven varieties might save you some heartbreak. If you can find a nurseryman or home enthusiast who really understands what you want to do, you might find they have some great ideas.
Some apples require other apple varieties to pollinate and form good fruit. I understand that some varieties need to cross-pollinate with more than one variety. I'd avoid these fussy ones and get something that is a prolific bearer from a young age.
Apple rootstock trees may be produced by piling soil up around a selected apple tree. The tree is then encouraged to grow side shoots from the base below the soil, and often these side shoots will form their own roots under the soil. These are then cut from the parent plant when dormant and planted out.
Some apple trees may throw up shoots from their roots naturally....you might be able to transplant some of these.
If you want only a few trees, you might get the fastest start by buying some if you can't find any wild ones to transplant.
I've never tried to grow apples from cuttings. But if you were going to give it a go, maybe you could try making your own rooting hormone...
Never tried it, but I understand you can cut up willow shoots into little pieces and soak them in clean water for a while. Some willows will grow easily from cuttings so I think this is the type of willow you should use.... The growth hormones from this willow is said to get leached out into the water. You can then soak the cuttings you want to grow in this willow water and this may increase the chance that they will take root.
However, I reckon the best bet to get hold of any wild apples that seem naturally happy in the area...and then graft to these if you think they won't produce good fruit on their own.
Some apples require other apple varieties to pollinate and form good fruit. I understand that some varieties need to cross-pollinate with more than one variety. I'd avoid these fussy ones and get something that is a prolific bearer from a young age.
Apple rootstock trees may be produced by piling soil up around a selected apple tree. The tree is then encouraged to grow side shoots from the base below the soil, and often these side shoots will form their own roots under the soil. These are then cut from the parent plant when dormant and planted out.
Some apple trees may throw up shoots from their roots naturally....you might be able to transplant some of these.
If you want only a few trees, you might get the fastest start by buying some if you can't find any wild ones to transplant.
I've never tried to grow apples from cuttings. But if you were going to give it a go, maybe you could try making your own rooting hormone...
Never tried it, but I understand you can cut up willow shoots into little pieces and soak them in clean water for a while. Some willows will grow easily from cuttings so I think this is the type of willow you should use.... The growth hormones from this willow is said to get leached out into the water. You can then soak the cuttings you want to grow in this willow water and this may increase the chance that they will take root.
However, I reckon the best bet to get hold of any wild apples that seem naturally happy in the area...and then graft to these if you think they won't produce good fruit on their own.
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Yep, root suckers are another good way to start apple trees. The only caveat is that you need to know that the tree you are taking suckers from is a pure tree, not grafted to crab-apple or other stock. Otherwise, you end up with whatever the root stock was, not the fruiting part of the original tree! Sometimes it can be a pleasant surprise...
If you like playing like I do, go for a variety of the cloning techniques discussed. If you just want apple trees quick and easily, buy them already started.
When you do finally plant the trees, get some 6' tall 4" welded wire fence to build deer exclosures around them after you plant them. Make them at least 5' in diameter and put three or four tall stakes along the inside to hold them in place.
J-
wow...i think im overwhelmed with information! coote and homebru seem to be quite the experts. well...where do i start. if i have to i would buy apple trees, but i hate too for several reasons. first, im a college student and dont have a lot of extra money floating around. second, as previously mentioned, i have several apple trees(about 3 or 4) that are already there and seem to have pretty good conditions(i figured they would have to to survive as long as they did). now as for the kind of tree...im not looking for anything fancy cause this is for deer only and i dont think they are too picky. and i dont know if i read this right but i should start picking branches now?
Grafting can be part of the process of increasing the number of trees, but it is generally only done if you want a certain variety of fruit to grow on the new trees.
Grafting is the name given to the process where a live branch is joined on to another by artificial means so that healing takes place at the join...and the new wood now becomes part of the old tree. Generally the wood grafted on comes from a tree that grows the desired type of fruit. The base tree has to be the same species of tree....but it can be any old variety that might produce substandard fruit.
So 'grafting' on its own doesn't create a new tree.
If you just plant apple seed, you can not be sure what the fruit will be like even if the seed came from a known variety. So that is generally why people graft. You can graft what you want on to any similar seedling or rooted cutting to get a tree that will produce what you want.
You might get a wood cutting from a desired variety of tree to take root, but the particular type of tree might not be suited to certain conditions...it may not have good roots for the local soil, or it may not be disease resistant. So you grow a tree that is suited to the local conditions...then graft the type of fruit you want on to it. I hope this makes sense.
If you want to grow more apple trees, you will need to plant more apple trees (and protect them from the tree-eating critters in the area as already suggested). My point is that you can plant any sort of apple tree. If they look like they are going to survive, you can then graft desirable fruit bearing wood from other trees on to the trees you have planted. However I now realize that you aren't so concerned with fruit type or quality.
One thing you might like to try to save money, is to talk to various places or individuals that might raise young fruit trees. Sometimes there may be rejects where grafts haven't 'taken' properly, or the tree has a poor shape, or there may be overproduction of some particular variety, or there may be a surplus near the end of the planting season..etc etc. Where the nursery has 'bare rooted' plants in late winter and they aren't selling, they may be only too happy to help you out with their rejects at a good price.
The nursery may even sell you young rootstock apple trees that have not yet had the fruiting variety grafted on to them. These may not produce fruit for ages if left alone, or the fruit may be fairly crappy. However you can graft on to them at a suitable time in the future.
If you look around the base of the apple trees that you already have, you may find that shoots are coming from the roots at some distance from the main trunk. If you carefully dig around these...and manage to get the shoot with a decent bit of root attached, you have a new young apple tree to plant. This would be best done when the tree is dormant.
Should you be 'picking branches now?'. Well I am not familiar with your seasons in the northern hemisphere. Generally I'd wait until after the middle of winter before I collected grafting wood.
It would be good to find some local apple experts. You might find that they fall all over themselves to help you out.
Grafting is the name given to the process where a live branch is joined on to another by artificial means so that healing takes place at the join...and the new wood now becomes part of the old tree. Generally the wood grafted on comes from a tree that grows the desired type of fruit. The base tree has to be the same species of tree....but it can be any old variety that might produce substandard fruit.
So 'grafting' on its own doesn't create a new tree.
If you just plant apple seed, you can not be sure what the fruit will be like even if the seed came from a known variety. So that is generally why people graft. You can graft what you want on to any similar seedling or rooted cutting to get a tree that will produce what you want.
You might get a wood cutting from a desired variety of tree to take root, but the particular type of tree might not be suited to certain conditions...it may not have good roots for the local soil, or it may not be disease resistant. So you grow a tree that is suited to the local conditions...then graft the type of fruit you want on to it. I hope this makes sense.
If you want to grow more apple trees, you will need to plant more apple trees (and protect them from the tree-eating critters in the area as already suggested). My point is that you can plant any sort of apple tree. If they look like they are going to survive, you can then graft desirable fruit bearing wood from other trees on to the trees you have planted. However I now realize that you aren't so concerned with fruit type or quality.
One thing you might like to try to save money, is to talk to various places or individuals that might raise young fruit trees. Sometimes there may be rejects where grafts haven't 'taken' properly, or the tree has a poor shape, or there may be overproduction of some particular variety, or there may be a surplus near the end of the planting season..etc etc. Where the nursery has 'bare rooted' plants in late winter and they aren't selling, they may be only too happy to help you out with their rejects at a good price.
The nursery may even sell you young rootstock apple trees that have not yet had the fruiting variety grafted on to them. These may not produce fruit for ages if left alone, or the fruit may be fairly crappy. However you can graft on to them at a suitable time in the future.
If you look around the base of the apple trees that you already have, you may find that shoots are coming from the roots at some distance from the main trunk. If you carefully dig around these...and manage to get the shoot with a decent bit of root attached, you have a new young apple tree to plant. This would be best done when the tree is dormant.
Should you be 'picking branches now?'. Well I am not familiar with your seasons in the northern hemisphere. Generally I'd wait until after the middle of winter before I collected grafting wood.
It would be good to find some local apple experts. You might find that they fall all over themselves to help you out.
alright thanks for the clarification coote. by the way the winter in the northern hemisphere generally runs from november-march but right now its almost 60 so you never really know. now i see how grafting can become useful, but in order to do it i first must plant more which i guess will involve trying out some hormones
alright guys...im bringing this back after a few months. I am just now getting around to doing this thing after a few family problems i am back in business. I pretty much decided right now that i want to buy rooting hormone, and so i looked online. Pure IBA was $200 for 50 grams!! what should i be looking for
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"Root-Tone" is one of the trade names of the "root-growing hormone powder" you are looking for and it works on many woody plants but fruit trees, especially Apples, produce poor roots if they produce "good" fruit, and vice-versa. You will notice on any small Apple tree a "node" or "knot" at the base of the trunk which is the healed graft union. There are Apple trees raised for root stock which provide hardy roots and crappy production which are grafted to the cuttings from trees which produce "good" fruit.
Check the local library. This is typically a well-covered subject and pictures are a huge help in explainng grafting. Buy the trees for your deer mid-summer at the department stores when they go on clearance for $4. Otherwise, they're about $25/ea, bare-root, from a reputable nursery.
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When I was doing bonsai I used Schultz "take root". It's a 2 ounce jar of root hormone. Price was around $6 I reckon.
Have you though about air layering.....where you wrap sphagnum moss around a section of branch you have stripped the bark from. Once it roots you cut off the branch.
Have you though about air layering.....where you wrap sphagnum moss around a section of branch you have stripped the bark from. Once it roots you cut off the branch.
Brian Jones
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hopefully Nate (Norcalblacktail) will see this thread and jump in, since he's an arborist and this right up that alley of expertise.
alright then where are you Norcalblacktail?! i just went to lowe's and the had rooting hormone, but not juicy enough(one was .1% and the other a wimpy .004%). as tempting as it is to buy a cheap one i would still atleast try and clone the present one at my grandmothers house...im not sure why but it could have sentimental reasons(meant a lot to my pap)
Brian Jones
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I PMed him with a link to this thread - I'm sure he'll pop in soon.
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Bmilla
Couple things to make sure of before grafting.
1.Make sure your stock tree is well established.
2.Grafting must be done at the proper time. (When the apple being grafted is dormant)
3.Make sure the dormant shoots you collect are healthy and at least 1 year old.
4.Collect in the winter and store at about 40 degrees until you and your stock tree are ready.
5.There are many different techniques for grafting. I would suggest taking a look around the web and also picking up a book or 2 on it.
One book I recommend for all types of plant propagation is a book by The American Horticulture Society called "Plant Propagation". In it you will find the different techniques and requirements involved for grafting.
There is a guy on youtube with some pretty informative videos on fruit trees. Heres a link to his vids. http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=stephenhayesuk&p=r
The one rooting compound I have success with is called CloneEx. It works really well and readily available online. Heres a link to it http://www.homeharvest.com/cutstrtrootagents.htm
I see you are trying to create more food for the deer. Thats cool. Just this year I started over 100 Oak trees from acorn to plant. Our bow season just started and its been in the 100s. Ive only gone out once and saw a couple bucks but no shooters.
Good luck with your grafting/cloning experiment. PM me if you have any other questions.
Couple things to make sure of before grafting.
1.Make sure your stock tree is well established.
2.Grafting must be done at the proper time. (When the apple being grafted is dormant)
3.Make sure the dormant shoots you collect are healthy and at least 1 year old.
4.Collect in the winter and store at about 40 degrees until you and your stock tree are ready.
5.There are many different techniques for grafting. I would suggest taking a look around the web and also picking up a book or 2 on it.
One book I recommend for all types of plant propagation is a book by The American Horticulture Society called "Plant Propagation". In it you will find the different techniques and requirements involved for grafting.
There is a guy on youtube with some pretty informative videos on fruit trees. Heres a link to his vids. http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=stephenhayesuk&p=r
The one rooting compound I have success with is called CloneEx. It works really well and readily available online. Heres a link to it http://www.homeharvest.com/cutstrtrootagents.htm
I see you are trying to create more food for the deer. Thats cool. Just this year I started over 100 Oak trees from acorn to plant. Our bow season just started and its been in the 100s. Ive only gone out once and saw a couple bucks but no shooters.
Good luck with your grafting/cloning experiment. PM me if you have any other questions.