Does it have to suck just because it is from China?

[jc57]

As for the manufacture flaw, you are not referring to the RR but one of the Taylor brands? Did they not offer to replace it or was it just not worth the bother?

Yes, Taylor not RR. My first Taylor Old Timer was the 94OT Wrangler pattern, which has a long clip and medium sheepfoot blade hinged at the same end - basically a stockman without a pen blade. I like that blade combo and they were the only one making a "2/3rds Stockman" at the time. The 440A steel was usably sharp out of the box, took a finer edge when I sharpened it, and works well as a utility box-cutting knife that I don't fret over. This was using the standard brown sawcut-textured Delrin-like handle material. It was about $14 when I bought it.

The second one I tried was another of the Taylor Old Timer series, a medium stockman pattern but with actual sawcut bone handles, polished blades, and reportedly 440C steel. However, one of the handle pins had not been spun down at all, so it was like a spike sticking out on that side. Would have snagged pockets and probably hurt or cut my hand to use. As I recall with shipping it was about $20-$22. If I already owned a power tool that could properly spin the pin down and dome it, then I might have tried fixing it. I thought about using a nail punch and peening it down, but never got around to trying it. Just wasn't worth the hassle. I have tons of knives and did not feel like making a hobby out of that one. It might have been a fine knife if it had been usable, but it was not.

Also not really worth the time I spent to type all of that, but you seemed interested.

I believe the various former Schrade brands, including Old Timer, have changed hands one or more times since then, so my experience from 2015 is likely not applicable now. Any product can have something slip past QA. But considering time and shipping costs, just not worth the effort.

 

[BradleySmall]

While I don’t consider myself an old guy yet, I am old enough to remember when nearly everything coming from china was junk. That left an impression, so for me there’s no sense of pride owning anything made in china.

I am old enough to remember when junk came from Japan or Hong Kong. When stuff started coming form Taiwan and China, people started wishing things said Made in Japan. As others come to compete on price, the Chinese stuff will be seen better. I guess, that has started happening with all the people p&ming about those Pakistan knives. There are companies trying to overcome the stigma with descriptions that include mfg in China, with our designs and over site. Or with our materials... Etc, and so on. It was a big PITA with wood lathe turning tools. So, now the "good tools" are made from all these PM metals, and cryogenic and so on and so forth. And the Chinese junk tools are all M2. Well, 10-20 years ago, the premium stuff was M2 because who could even imagine making lathe tools from M42 and M35 or PM X10 and the ilk. Now, the only bad stuff is things made from tool or carbon steel, because all the bowl turners have shifted to "grinder abuse". I got a beautiful Henry Taylor gouge from the 1900's so, for a song, because no one now would know how to sharpen it without bluing the whole end off. I have shifted it over to my carving tools as a big gouge
On the other hand.. most things are made in China now. Pride is expensive, if you insist on everything being made in USA, you are going to have to be paying bespoke prices. I can't remember the last thing I bought from the shoe maker or the tailor...

 

[BradleySmall]

Yes, Taylor not RR. My first Taylor Old Timer was the 94OT Wrangler pattern, which has a long clip and medium sheepfoot blade hinged at the same end - basically a stockman without a pen blade. I like that blade combo and they were the only one making a "2/3rds Stockman" at the time. The 440A steel was usably sharp out of the box, took a finer edge when I sharpened it, and works well as a utility box-cutting knife that I don't fret over. This was using the standard brown sawcut-textured Delrin-like handle material. It was about $14 when I bought it.

The second one I tried was another of the Taylor Old Timer series, a medium stockman pattern but with actual sawcut bone handles, polished blades, and reportedly 440C steel. However, one of the handle pins had not been spun down at all, so it was like a spike sticking out on that side. Would have snagged pockets and probably hurt or cut my hand to use. As I recall with shipping it was bout $20-$22. If I already owned a power tool that could properly spin the pin down and dome it, then I might have tried fixing it. I thought about using a nail punch and peening it down, but never got around to trying it. Just wasn't worth the hassle. I have tons of knives and did not feel like making a hobby out of that one. It might have been a fine knife if it has been usable, but it was not.

Also not really worth the time I spent to type all of that, but you seemed interested.

I believe the various former Schrade brands, including Old Timer, have changed hands one or more times since then, so my experience from 2015 is likely not applicable now. Any product can have something slip past QA. But considering time and shipping costs, just not worth the effort.

its funny how many things I have bought with issue, that when i complained more times than a few the product had no value, or not enough for them to pay the shipping. So there are things that I have had replaced where the vendor simply said, throw it away or rather than replacing sent me my money back and said to toss or keep the item. Gives me mixed feelings.

 

[BradleySmall]

No, it is not.
Here we discuss knives.
Ethic and politic are elsewhere on the Internet

Perhaps I didn't mean "strange" as much as I meant vague. I couldn't imagine an issue with a physical item that couldn't be discussed. As for ethics and politics, I guess people make some decisions based on them. But I remember a podcaster poo-pooing over Makita saying they had a good product but were and I quote "Garbage Human beings". This bothered me so much that I had to dig down into some of the group of followers of that Podcaster to find out what he was talking about. Apparently her was upset that they still had a Miss Makita as well as a Is Señorita Makita who made trade show appearances and perhaps were on their calendars. I am not offended by that, and I didn't even know it. But apparently this offended that podcaster to that severe a degree. I wonder how he feels about Pierelli tires So, I try to avoid "ethics" decisions because, ethics are both personal and situational.
So, if you had issues with the quality of a knife fro political or ethical reasons, now I understand why you might not choose to discuss it. Unless, the issue is downright deception, in which case, that should count

 

[Carboniferous]

I don't like counterfeit knives made in any country. I like well-made and reasonably priced knives from any country. I don't usually use country of manufacture as a sign of those things, I focus on reviews or company reputation.

My Boker Plus Atlas and my Rough Ryder Reserve one-arm jack are both objectively well-made knives for reasonable prices so I like them. No more analysis needed imo

 

[BradleySmall]

No, many Chinese made knives are quite good, and they tend to be good values. Just be honest about your product.

Counterfeits make me very sad. What's worse is 'designers' who have knives made overseas and walk a fine line by not having the country of manufacture stamped on them. If the knife gets separated from the packaging, a frequent occurrence as we all know, then an unwary buyer can get stung. We aggravate this by supporting these guys.

I am not really focusing on counterfeits, but it is an odd thing that a company can simply buy a name and rock on!! I've gotten burned on Imperials, and Schrades ... and even kind of on the "Solingen" and "Sheffield" garbage junk. And, though I got a little sting from the Queen, ultimately I merely got what I paid for instead of the wonderful jackpot I thought i was getting. Easy to cheat the greedy guy

As for RR, I don't consider them a Counterfeit.

 

[dsutton24]

I am not really focusing on counterfeits, but it is an odd thing that a company can simply buy a name and rock on!! I've gotten burned on Imperials, and Schrades ... and even kind of on the "Solingen" and "Sheffield" garbage junk. And, though I got a little sting from the Queen, ultimately I merely got what I paid for instead of the wonderful jackpot I thought i was getting. Easy to cheat the greedy guy

As for RR, I don't consider them a Counterfeit.

A knife being produced under a legally acquired name isn't a counterfeit. Counterfeits are products produced with the intent to deceive. Nobody would ever look at a Rough Rider and mistake it for anything other than a Rough Rider.

 

[dsutton24]

As for RR, I don't consider them a Counterfeit.

I guess I didn't realize I was answering the same question in two different threads...

Rough Riders aren't counterfeits, they're sold under their own name, and many are imitations of classic western knife patterns. Compare a Rough Rider Stockman to, say, Case, Kinfolks, Queen, Boker, or any number of makers. You'll see that they have their own design philosophy.

I occasionally work gun shows with a large knife dealer. I've personally handled counterfeit Buck and Case knives. Where they really turn up is the Tactical stuff. You've really got to watch for bogus Microtech and Benchmade. There are people who counterfeit toothpaste and Sharpie pens for goodness' sake. Knives are no different.

 

[BradleySmall]

A knife being produced under a legally acquired name isn't a counterfeit. Counterfeits are products produced with the intent to deceive. Nobody would ever look at a Rough Rider and mistake it for anything other than a Rough Rider.

I agree 100%. But the names going offshore, is a bit deceptive. But we do have CoO stamped on the blades so there's that.

 

[BradleySmall]

I guess I didn't realize I was answering the same question in two different threads...

Rough Riders aren't counterfeits, they're sold under their own name, and many are imitations of classic western knife patterns. Compare a Rough Rider Stockman to, say, Case, Kinfolks, Queen, Boker, or any number of makers. You'll see that they have their own design philosophy.

I occasionally work gun shows with a large knife dealer. I've personally handled counterfeit Buck and Case knives. Where they really turn up is the Tactical stuff. You've really got to watch for bogus Microtech and Benchmade. There are people who counterfeit toothpaste and Sharpie pens for goodness' sake. Knives are no different.

How obvious are they?

 

[dsutton24]

How obvious are they?

It depends on how much experience you have with them. If you've handled enough of the real thing, the bad ones feel tells you more than anything. The counterfeits are light and rattly. Graphics are pretty bad. The boxes and associated paper wouldn't fool a blind man.

People get fooled by them when they see a good price and fall in love. If you can stay objective you're going to be ahead of the scammers.

 

[Peregrin]

That is a strange statement to make.

Our guidelines, posted here, https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...tional-folders-fixed-blades-sub-forum.530532/, will explain why we don't allow political discussions in this sub-forum. It's a good idea to read through them.
If the thread turns into a political discussion it will be closed.

 

[NWFRS]

I buy Chinese clothes, linens, appliances, and shop machinery simply because searching-out alternatives is exhausting and expensive. Often main assemblies are manufactured in China, and then shipped to factories in the U.S. and Europe for final assembly. The fact that they actively try to hide those details should tell us something.

I see luxury goods differently, though.

Things like shoes, boots, belts, wallets, wristwatches, eyewear, axes, knives, hand tools, etc. are things that I want to feel proud of, and not embarrassed about discussing with other enthusiasts. That’s all there is to it for me, I’m cheap, but I also want to enjoy wearing or using the things I’m most proud of.

 

[waynorth]

That is a strange statement to make.

One I agree with completely!!

 

[JohnDF]

China thread of the month... Not sure why we need a new one every month?

 

[draggat]

I have no problems with Chinese knives at all! My focus these days is more about obtaining 'authentic' regional knives from all over the world, which involves finding manufacturers and/or custom makers in their respective countries. To me, this is a much more enjoyable pursuit than sitting at the computer waiting for the next 'drop', no matter where they originated from.

I absolutely wish my next Chinese knife would be a handmade Shilin Cutter, but they aren't so easy to find..... Anyone have a lead?

 

[hardheart]

Comes down to the reason for choosing it as the country of manufacture. Is it to make the highest quality product for the price, or to make it at the lowest price period. China can pretty much make what everyday else makes as well as anybody else makes it. But they often aren't asked to.

No matter the quality level, all that's entailed in the conversion of dollars to rmb sometimes is too much for some buyers. And that's enough on that.

 

[murat1983]

So, in my accidental acquisitions I bought 3 knives, that I thought were USA made, that weren't.
Sarge-SK10N - This is a nice folding chip carver with 2 relatively nice roughing and fine cut blades it is in the spirit of one of the Oar Carvers that Queen made at one time. The blades are 440C. I have not one bad thing to say about this knife. It takes a nice edge and slices nicely through both hard and soft woods. Nice walk and talk. And the scales appear to be some kind of burl, perhaps Walnut or Cocobolo.

Queen - QN014 - medium or large stockman on a serpentine frame. I can't tell if it is jigged bone or stag or plastic, but it has nice grip to it. All the blade are frighteningly sharp, but since I haven't cut anything with it, I don't know how well they will hold an edge. It is not labeled for the steel type, and has generally good walk and talk with the exception of the main clip blade, at the fully open position, just doesn't snap into open position. Otherwise, I see nothing wrong with this knife, and imagine it would do well in a pocket working and doing what it was made for.

Lastly the (and I knew it was Chinese)
RoughRider 2224 Magician's Lady's Leg made with "440 Razor Sharp Steel". The scale material is gorgeous though I am not sure exactly what it is, though I assume a tinted resin. The blades are frighteningly sharp, but again since it has seen no use, I am not sure how well they will hold an edge.

So, in general, all three seem quite reasonable and the prices were quite low. So the question really is what brands are the "sleepers"? What should be trash, but performs "surprisingly" well at the $15-$25 price point?

my answer to your question is No.

I believe China is capable to produce both good and bad quality and it all depends the price point of the product. For instance JE made knives are quite good but they are not cheap. However, there is (or was?) some dishonesty in Chinese products. But it seems this is going away as I do not see as much complain on internet nowadays. It is also true that many western brands "hire" a Chinese manufacturer to produce something and the Western company just put their own brand on it and sell it for twice the amount. One may prefer to not to buy a Chinese product in order to protect the national producers or may be because they are not happy with the conditions that Chinese workers work in. I can see how not buying a Chinese knife would be helping to the former case but failing to see it having any effect on the latter case.

 

[DARCISIO]

The only bad thing with chinese made products..or rather some of their companies is quality control.

They pump out so many products QC becomes an issue.

 

[calm]

Many of the old brands were bought by US companies who made the decision on where to manufacture the product they own. Schrade/Taylor was making traditional knives (lower quality in my experience) in China and some people were not happy. Now they are also "making" some products in the US, made by Bear and Sons where the equivalent B&S product is usually cheaper, but nobody seems to be that excited about it. I expected a lot more enthusiasm, for some reason.

Some of GEC's own sub-brands are names of old US companies and have no direct connection to these original companies, but we are happy with them, as people buy the actual product and not the historical connection of the name. If GEC was making bad knives they would not be selling as much just based on where they are made. (I have several and do not consider them perfect, but they are a good solid product designed to be used hard)

About a decade, maybe more, ago any mention of Asian/out of the US and Europe made brands in BF was not seen as a proper thing to do. I remember threads being moved for that, or people intentionally talking politics in them to get them closed.

Things change, better "overseas" products arrived, Forums grow and BF has become a lot more of an international Forum from a purely US based/US opinion based Forum. It still has the strong US base and vibe but it is more worldly, I think, which is the result of good work from the Moderators/Staff, and the participating members. This has encouraged, I believe, more people to join.