Does it have to suck just because it is from China?

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DARCISIO said:
The only bad thing with chinese made products..or rather some of their companies is quality control.

They pump out so many products QC becomes an issue.
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I believe your statement to be incorrect. It is up to the contractor not the manufacturer. If the contractor demands quality that's what they get.
 
I think the Chinese CoO raises a lot of flags. For instance, if I pick up a Buck and see a "wonderful" price when I check the CoO and see made in China I no longer "know" how to judge it. I have in my hand as I type this a Buck 112 complete with leather belt sheath/case. And some nice green staining because when i was in the Army, I cleaned everything with Brasso... I digress. I bought this knife in 1983 at the PX in Ft Sam Houston San Antonio, TX for $59. If you go to Buck's website that same knife goes for $59 still. However, if you go on eBay you will see a bunch of bucks from $0.01 and up and ones similar to the 112 going for somewhere in the $15 range. However, they are made in China. If I were at a swap meet or flea market or pawn shop and saw a like new condition Buck 112 for $15 I would buy them all day long for that price. The ones made in Idaho, I know that any hand work done on them is done by a person making quite the reasonable rate of pay. And I can estimate how many hours of manual work as opposed to automated machine work it takes. The ones made in China if all things being equal will be done by someone making $0.60 - $0.90 per hour. So, just doing the math I can see a reason for a price difference. So, if it were a commodity item (which I argued that bowl and spindle gouges were, since there is very little modification from their bar stock form) that is one thing. On the other hand, if it requires attention to detail, and care that one who takes ownership of a process might impart... how do you put a value on that.

IDK, I drool over GEC, and would love to have a few of them. But if I picked it up and it had a CoO China or something I would expect a price closer to RoughRider.

So perhaps China is not so bad in that the quality is coming up to expected levels. Maybe now the talk will move to Pakistan. I have seen cheap knives from Pakistan for as long as I can remember back into the 1980's. One of the first things I spent adult money on was a set of knives. A few buck knockoffs with leather belt cases, and a double edged dagger that became a tool box knife. I lost or broke most of them. But they were not tight and as I remember I couldn't keep a decent edge on them. So when I see Pakistan this is the image I have. I don't know what it will take to ever change that feeling.
 
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The question I pose in return is, have you ever seen a USA made knife that sucked? I haven’t. Atleast not where blade steel is concerned.

Now sure China can make a decent product. But let’s say you have a dozen knives ( not the same, but all made in China) and 1 is good enough to satisfy your quality requirements. How do you discern which one? You use and break 9 and then assume all are junk. So when you get to that 1, how then do you switch that mindset and start trusting it?

I have some hand tools. Craftsman wrenches. I have two exact same wrenches, both 1/4”; one made in China and one made in the USA. So they both look the same and they both turn a 1/4” nut the same. When you drop them on concrete the USA made wrench rings, the China wrench clanks. They both work, but I prefer the USA made one because I think it’s better quality.

I have a buck 373 that’s made in China. It’s not in the “it sucks” category, but it isn’t in the “good as case but cheaper” category either.

For me it’s not worth the heartache of falling in love with a cheap knife, to have it let me down because of poor quality that matches the price.
 
Just Tom. said:
To answer the title of your thread, no, it does not. Chinese manufacturing seems to have come a long way from the cheap junk I first encountered in the early 1990s.

My beef with Chinese products lies not with the quality of those products, but with other issues which if mentioned would violate forum rules - rules I agree with, by the way.
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^^^ same here.

Let me say it like this: I accidentally bought some Coke instead of Pepsi the other day; I'll still drink it.

Enjoy your knives, technical quality should be good.
 
JM2 said:
The question I pose in return is, have you ever seen a USA made knife that sucked? I haven’t. Atleast not where blade steel is concerned.

Now sure China can make a decent product. But let’s say you have a dozen knives ( not the same, but all made in China) and 1 is good enough to satisfy your quality requirements. How do you discern which one? You use and break 9 and then assume all are junk. So when you get to that 1, how then do you switch that mindset and start trusting it?

I have some hand tools. Craftsman wrenches. I have two exact same wrenches, both 1/4”; one made in China and one made in the USA. So they both look the same and they both turn a 1/4” nut the same. When you drop them on concrete the USA made wrench rings, the China wrench clanks. They both work, but I prefer the USA made one because I think it’s better quality.

I have a buck 373 that’s made in China. It’s not in the “it sucks” category, but it isn’t in the “good as case but cheaper” category either.

For me it’s not worth the heartache of falling in love with a cheap knife, to have it let me down because of poor quality that matches the price.
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I think that's kind of the point. There has to be some other way to judge other than name brand recognition. When I was a locksmith, lots of people wanted to know "what's a good lock/ should I get the schlage or the kwikset or whatever". Lots of the import locks are now made in Korea (not sure why). They are all pretty good, but with any brand you have different grades and so if I said I liked the $400 Schlage Grade 1 lockset, and someone goes to the big box store and sees the current consumer (grade 3 marked as Heavy Duty or whatever) selling for $10-25 they remember I said Schlage. Not the same beast by a long shot. They have stuff made in China, Mexico, and maybe some is made in the States. All will have different features so you can't do any kind of side by side comparisons. But worst of all, the same company NAME that makes the absolute worst one, is also the same company NAME that makes the best.
So now, growing up I knew things like BUCK, CASE, WENGER, Scrade, Queen, KeenKutter were all great names. And I felt if I could save up and afford one my money was well spent. I trusted the name, because it seemed like it stood for something. However, now that I am old. It seems, at least for some the NAME is simply another product, or asset that can be sold to help market inferior products like bad sequels to movie franchises that did well.
So, worse yet, people aren't able to, or not willing to pay the cost of a quality product. So companies like Queen can't pay the bills. Or feel, hey let's make a Good, Better, Best line and make money on the ones that we can have made in XYZ country for some fraction of the cost. IDK about others but Queen/Schatt & Morgen/Moore Maker are all gone. Case is still plugging along. I think Zippo is having some case line made in China now, but if I am not wrong it has a different name.

Maybe it is just lazy thinking to want to trust a Name. Maybe that's not the way to do it anymore.
 
BradleySmall said:
I think Zippo is having some case line made in China now
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Is this true??? Where did you read or hear that???
All the (traditional) ones I've seen are still stamped U.S.A... and country of origin and manufacture is still listed as U.S.A.
 
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JohnDF said:
Is this true??? Where did you read or hear that???
All the ones I've seen are still stamped U.S.A... and country of origin and manufacture is still listed as U.S.A.
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There was a period of time where Case came out with a line of modern-style folders that were made overseas, selling at a low price point to compete with the other similar folders. "TecX" was the brand.

That did not include their main product line of traditional folders or fixed blades. Those were always USA made. Only their "TecX by Case" brand.

It appears they abandoned that approach and now their modern knives are made at the regular Case factory in PA (and with a ~$130 price tag).

I am not sure when they stopped making the overseas knives, but I don't see any mention of them on their web site any more. The former page for that product line is showing no knives listed: https://caseknives.com/collections/tecx
 
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I try not to buy anything from a communist country IF I CAN HELP IT, and prefer to buy USA made, within reason. I am not willing to begger myself to do so and you can't always buy thing made here. No, I don't think all China made knives are junk, just not for me. YMMV. I am a bit ticked with some people that buy USA brands and then have them made away. As for Buck, whoever decided to have any Buck knives made in China needs a good swift kick right between the pockets.
 
"Country of origin" is fraught with personal bias and political stances.
Most of us are guilty of favoring "Made in <<insert acceptable first world nation here>>", myself included.
I'm not saying if that's good or bad, that's up to the individual, but I think it's important to be aware of our biases.

I'm 100% certain that a citizen of China (or anywhere else) could produce a very quality knife if they were motivated to do so.
If you ask someone to make a 5 dollar gas station knife, that's what you'll get, and historically that's what we've been asking of Chinese manufacturing- low cost, high volume.

Of course there's sometimes other ethical considerations (IP infringements, etc), but when it comes to quality? The citizens of China are capable.
 
JohnDF said:
Is this true??? Where did you read or hear that???
All the (traditional) ones I've seen are still stamped U.S.A... and country of origin and manufacture is still listed as U.S.A.
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www.bradfordera.com

Case introducing new knives, made in China

W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery Co., famed for its Making a Case for America campaign, is introducing a new line of knives that aren’t made in Bradford — or even
www.bradfordera.com www.bradfordera.com
 
BradleySmall said:
www.bradfordera.com

Case introducing new knives, made in China

W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery Co., famed for its Making a Case for America campaign, is introducing a new line of knives that aren’t made in Bradford — or even
www.bradfordera.com www.bradfordera.com
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Once again, those are Modern knives and not really a part of the discussion on this forum.
You had me worried that their Traditional line was moving overseas... That would be very newsworthy.
 
JM2 said:
The question I pose in return is, have you ever seen a USA made knife that sucked? I haven’t. Atleast not where blade steel is concerned.

Now sure China can make a decent product. But let’s say you have a dozen knives ( not the same, but all made in China) and 1 is good enough to satisfy your quality requirements. How do you discern which one? You use and break 9 and then assume all are junk. So when you get to that 1, how then do you switch that mindset and start trusting it?

I have some hand tools. Craftsman wrenches. I have two exact same wrenches, both 1/4”; one made in China and one made in the USA. So they both look the same and they both turn a 1/4” nut the same. When you drop them on concrete the USA made wrench rings, the China wrench clanks. They both work, but I prefer the USA made one because I think it’s better quality.

I have a buck 373 that’s made in China. It’s not in the “it sucks” category, but it isn’t in the “good as case but cheaper” category either.

For me it’s not worth the heartache of falling in love with a cheap knife, to have it let me down because of poor quality that matches the price.
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I've had Queen knives, made in the US, that were not acceptable quality. Queen did not fail, in my opinion, because people are unwilling to pay for quality. More expensive brands persist. Queen failed, in my opinion, because they let their quality drop. You couldn't buy a Queen knife and trust that it would be a quality knife.
 
JM2 said:
The question I pose in return is, have you ever seen a USA made knife that sucked? I haven’t. Atleast not where blade steel is concerned.
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I have. The US had its share of bargain knife makers, and many of the middle of the road makers had bargain lines. Among the makers left Bear MGC can be all over the place.

BradleySmall said:
.... For instance, if I pick up a Buck and see a "wonderful" price when I check the CoO and see made in China I no longer "know" how to judge it...
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Buck had some knives made overseas when Imperial went out of business and they were approached by Walmart to fill the void. The Chinese (and one other country, maybe Indonesia) knives are all marked with the country of origin, and carry Buck's Forever warranty. How do they hold up? Don't know. I've got a few of them, but I generally only buy US and European manufacture. The Chinese Bucks have different model numbers than the similar US made knives. They're easy to spot.

The classic Buck knives like the 110, and the black handled sheath knives and slipjoints were never made overseas.
 
I have two identical Buck stockmans, one made in U.S. and one made in China, the one made in China actually has better fit and finish overall. I have several RR and other Chinese brand knives that have great fit and finish, overall quality is outstanding for the price. Some of my < $20 Rough Ryder's are made better than newer Case knives for 4x the cost. I get that people want to support American companies and workers, but consumers will speak with their wallets when it comes time to get what they pay for and bang for their buck. I love my GECs, Case, Spyderco's etc., but I appreciate having the option for less expensive knives at a fraction of the cost without losing quality.
 
My opinion on the question at hand is that any knives that where once manufactured here in the U.S. and was where their birthplace began, and their reputation grew and prospered establishing a respectable based company surrounded on the fact they were made in America ~ leaves a bitter taste in my mouth buying one manufactured in China ~ all it truly is to me is transparent counterfeit ~ something China already has been labeled the #1 Country for ~ Counterfeit Merchandise ~
 
Grandpa Peter's and Grandma Betty's said:
My opinion on the question at hand is that any knives that where once manufactured here in the U.S. and was where their birthplace began, and their reputation grew and prospered establishing a respectable based company surrounded on the fact they were made in America ~ leaves a bitter taste in my mouth buying one manufactured in China ~ all it truly is to me is transparent counterfeit ~ something China already has been labeled the #1 Country for ~ Counterfeit Merchandise ~
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It isn't even counterfeiting by American legal standards, and it's being done by Americans who own the names now. How is China to blame?
 
Grandpa Peter's and Grandma Betty's said:
My opinion on the question at hand is that any knives that where once manufactured here in the U.S. and was where their birthplace began, and their reputation grew and prospered establishing a respectable based company surrounded on the fact they were made in America ~ leaves a bitter taste in my mouth buying one manufactured in China ~ all it truly is to me is transparent counterfeit ~ something China already has been labeled the #1 Country for ~ Counterfeit Merchandise ~
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With all due respect, this isn't a discussion of why you won't buy Chinese products- it's a discussion of whether or not a Chinese manufacturer can produce a good knife of reasonable quality.

Carboniferous said:
It isn't even counterfeiting by American legal standards, and it's being done by Americans who own the names now. How is China to blame?
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Like I said, "country of origin" is always rife these kinds of things. You're very right- if you consider that American traditional knives are often derivatives of European (mostly British, I think) technology and patterns, it rings kind of hollow that China shouldn't be allowed to do the same, a couple hundred years after the fact. In fact, these days we celebrate American companies copying traditionally British patterns, such as the barlow.
 
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