Does this sharpener seem any good? (Picture heavy)

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Does yours have the blue up front and dimples down the edge of the bed? Have you ever seen Chinese writing on his stones? You note dissimilarities as well.

I'm not home right now to compare it to my Apex, and I've been using a Pro for years, so I'm going from memory. The legs look wrong to me. I'm pretty sure Ben signed mine.

I had heard of this before, and it is about as blatant as patent infringement gets.

The knife world is ravaged with this.

Does this not trouble you?

What about the guy that gets a great idea that is patent able, but knows enforcing the patent would be impossible? Have you ever been faced with this?

Whether or not it works as well as an Apex is completely immaterial.

It's morally, ethically and in several other ways (without getting political) "Inferior to the Apex".

Sorry. Just sayin...

I hate to see customers sucker for junk but good to have choices, especially informed choices.

Which patent# does this chinese knock-off infringed? Does IP for this industry recognize worldwide? Does this device usable or just crap? Without clear evidences, we should stay with the device functional merit and avoid lambasting reaction.

My EP served me well for 6+ yrs (collecting dust lately), I believed in buy quality once rather than keep buying junks multiple times. On other hand, not every body can afford $200+ device, especially ppl in developed & developing countries. So, you can look at it as rip-off or expand the market niche (with delay revenue - keep some faith on humanity ethical+moral codes).

Cheers - a 50% smaller glass is full :)
 
Wow I just ordered the real deal. However I can see where the less obsessive might find this attractive if they knew no better.
 
Thanks for all the responses. I just figured for 40 bucks, i would try it out and see how i liked it and then would purchase an edgepro.
 
Does yours have the blue up front

Nope. But the ones Ben is selling these days do.

and dimples down the edge of the bed?

Yes, the one I bought from Ben has those same dimples down the edge of the bed.

Have you ever seen Chinese writing on his stones?

Nope, but then, I haven't bought stones from him in about 12-15 years. I never bought any of those 120 grit stones from him that people were complaining about. Mine cut very well. Ben changed suppliers and producers several times over the past 15 years.

I had heard of this before, and it is about as blatant as patent infringement gets.

You'll get no argument from me on that point. There are entire police departments, both Federal and State, that deal only with the growing business of knock-offs, be they Louis Vuitton handbags, Rolex watches, or pirated DVDs.

The knife world is ravaged with this.

The whole world is ravaged with this.

Does this not trouble you?

Yes, it does. What does that have to do with the original poster's question?

What about the guy that gets a great idea that is patent able, but knows enforcing the patent would be impossible? Have you ever been faced with this?

In my field, theft of intellectual property is rampant. I've had dozens of pieces stolen, and only been able to collect for a few of them.

Whether or not it works as well as an Apex is completely immaterial.

On the contrary, it is absolutely germain to this thread.
FCM415 said; "That there is a blatant knock-off of an awesome product the Edge Pro Apex. Not only is it a knock-off it is also a certified POS." My response was, how do you know it's a POS? For all anyone knows, it may actually be more effective... There doesn't seem to be a single person who's actually seen it.

I wasn't debating the validity or legality of knock-offs. There is nothing to debate. It's wrong. Period.
But we have absolutely no idea if this device is effective, which was the original poster's question!

It's morally, ethically and in several other ways (without getting political) "Inferior to the Apex".

Yep, no doubt about a knock-off being morally, ethically and legally inferior to the Apex.
But that doesn't mean it sharpens a knife poorly. And THAT was the question asked by the OP.

Most folks think that when a company orders the production of 50,000 widgets, the producer only makes 50,000 widgets. In fact, the producer may make 52,500 widgets in the process of setting up the assembly line, getting the logos straight, training the line workers, etc. Do you think he throws away those extra 2,500 widgets? Or does he sell them, unbranded, to a company that specializes in buying up over-runs and selling them at discount prices. Most of us have shopped at these sorts of discount houses at one time or another... Today, the biggest discount house of all is called E-bay. Why do you suppose that so many sellers can offer such low prices on goods? Do we imagine they are ALL knock-offs?


Stitchawl
 
Looks like I've been quoted. You are quick to point out that your feelings towards theft and wether it bothers you or not is relevant to the thread because it has nothing to do with the OP's question but are quoting my opinions and feelings towards this item. You would like to know if my statement holds any merit, and imply that it doesnt given that you say that both models are essentially the same. Mainly, that if you don't have one, don't pass such a definitive judgement correct?

No, I do not and will never have one. I will share with you why I think that this blatant china knockoff is a certified piece of shit. For one, the Edge Pro comes with a lifetime warranty. Any of the hardware fails, and the warranty kicks in. This is not case with the fake, sure just buy another right? Every fake you buy supports this theft. This alone is enough for me to label this but I'llkeep going for you. The fake has zero support, Ben is an incredible resource to learn from as he stands by his product. All you get with the fake is a few pages of chinese directions. Ok, then maybe buy the fake one since you think it is a carbon copy and email Ben for questions anyway right? Yeah, that would be another reason for me to call this a POS. Read a bit on the subject as this was discussed in other forums before and you can also learn that the angles colored on the arm on the fake are inconsistent by the piece. I saw a vid on youtube of a fake where the angle marks spacing were inconsistent as the Russian reviewer was pointing that out. Not my experience, but judging from the feedback on the fake's stones, they are of low quality. Also, the backplate of the stones is plastic, not sure if that matters wether it will give or bend at all during sharpening or not, but Ill take the original's stock stones over these. Do aftermarket stones fit in the fake? I have heard not, correct me if I am wrong. Im sure you can mod the fake to use anything though. I read that you said the knobs on your original are the same, well it is not, at least not anymore. And the knob on the angle arm has been improved for function. The fake pictured shows that there is no piece that stops the stone arm from drawing completely through, probably easily remedied though,but may be another flaw. In the end, I do not own one so feel free to restate that fact, I will still call this a piece of shit. It's all relative and for $23, perhaps you can get even bevels and a sharp knife out of one of these. Ok, that this the truth you want to cling to which is fine. You got it.

As far as markups go, I dont know, Ben dale has a life and put his all into developing this from prototypes and I can only imagine all the costs from the patents and everything else. Not to mention he pays Americans, American wage to build these. Some guy brought it to china and copied a protected intellectual copy to be flipped for peanuts... Not to mention they sell replacement stones for their fake creation also. In the end, yeah it may work, but it will not work for me. I hope this lengthy reply broke down my positions to you sufficiently. Feel free to quote me again.
 
Most folks think that when a company orders the production of 50,000 widgets, the producer only makes 50,000 widgets. In fact, the producer may make 52,500 widgets in the process of setting up the assembly line, getting the logos straight, training the line workers, etc. Do you think he throws away those extra 2,500 widgets? Or does he sell them, unbranded, to a company that specializes in buying up over-runs and selling them at discount prices. Most of us have shopped at these sorts of discount houses at one time or another... Today, the biggest discount house of all is called E-bay. Why do you suppose that so many sellers can offer such low prices on goods? Do we imagine they are ALL knock-offs Stitchawl

Please clarify the point of this as I dont see its parrallel between this and someone taking an edge pro to china and ripping it off.

So if Ben Dale makes 1000 edge pros, and china makes 50000 fake edge pros, is it ok for us to call the fake knock-offs? A knock off by defintion is a copy of an original, and nothing else.If you are bent on proving your point that they are the same in quality, then for the sake of objectivity go ahead and buy one if you havent already, wouldnt be surprised if so... you seem keenly motivated on debunking the fakes build rep.
 
You would like to know if my statement holds any merit, and imply that it doesnt given that you say that both models are essentially the same. Mainly, that if you don't have one, don't pass such a definitive judgement correct?

Exactly.

No, I do not and will never have one. I will share with you why I think that this blatant china knockoff is a certified piece of shit. For one, the Edge Pro comes with a lifetime warranty. Any of the hardware fails, and the warranty kicks in. This is not case with the fake,

A very good and important point... and if the OP was asking about the service behind the device no one would question your response. But he wasn't. He asked if it was an effective sharpener.

Every fake you buy supports this theft. This alone is enough for me to label this

If this was a thread where the OP asked about the ethics of purchasing this, again, we'd be right beside you in your points. But that is NOT what the OP asked. You've changed the views to meet your own agenda, not to answer the OP's question.

The fake has zero support, Ben is an incredible resource to learn from as he stands by his product. All you get with the fake is a few pages of chinese directions. Ok, then maybe buy the fake one since you think it is a carbon copy and email Ben for questions anyway right? Yeah, that would be another reason for me to call this a POS.

Sorry, but that would actually be a reason to call the person manifesting such behavior a POS, not the product.

I read that you said the knobs on your original are the same, well it is not, at least not anymore.

So because the newer models are different from the older models, this means the older one is a POS? By that reasoning alone, you are telling us that what Ben sold me was a POS. Frankly, I think it's pretty damn effective. I don't think you should even suggest that what Ben sold in the past was a POS just because he changed his design. A lot of us like the older stuff.

I do not own one so feel free to restate that fact, I will still call this a piece of shit.

By all means, if you wish to call it a flounder you can do that too. The fact remains... you are only making assumptions.

In the end, yeah it may work,

So... it might not actually be a POS...

but it will not work for me.

... but you don't like it or where it's made or how it's serviced so you try to convince everyone it it. Yeah... I got.


Stitchawl
 
Ok, Ill play along,

My original post you took issue with states that the item pictured is a blatant copy of an Edge Pro. That does not say anything about its build or servicability and by saying blatant copy actually suggests that it works more than it doesnt. Next I said certified POS. Fyi, Ive labeled people and things PoS and it had more to do what lied beyond the sum of their parts. You basically put words in my mouth. I have explained to you my position just so you know. You essentially quoted me to criticize your fabricated fill in the blanks view on my position and statement to another member. Bad form, but not all is lost...I think my position on the subject are clearer now.
 
Haha wow assumptions... When oh when did I say anywhere about edge pros older models being inferior. You told someone they are the same And I told you they are not anymore, that is all. Hes made an improvement, but your doing a bit much with your claim full of assumptions... its null. And agenda? Ethics on the subject of ripped off brands will always be part of my answer. I dont care if the OP didnt post a question about it. A fake sebenza can also slice cardboard I also would call it a PoS. Wow, Im done. Ill give you the last words, please add quotes.
 
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You essentially quoted me to criticize your fabricated fill in the blanks view on my position and statement to another member.

Don't get so defensive. I didn't criticize you.
I asked you for some sort of proof. ANY sort of proof, to back up your statement. Proof, not assumptions. At this point in time, you still haven't provided any. All you've told us was that you didn't own one and you really didn't know. You said just saw some guy on YouTube posting about what may or may not have been the same thing, and that is what you were basing your slander of this particular product.

Now you tell us that you use the term Piece of Shit to mean what ever you feel like it to mean at the time? I apologize for not knowing that about you. I'll keep it in mind for your future posts.

Facts? We don't need no facts. We got YouTube. :rolleyes:

To the OP of this thread: We really can't say one way or the other anything about the effectiveness of this sharpening device. All we can say for certain is that Ben Dale of EdgePro didn't sell it. It looks like an EdgePro Apex. It appears to operate like an Apex. What the results will be is anybody's guess.


Stitchawl
 
Don't get so defensive. I didn't criticize you.
I asked you for some sort of proof. ANY sort of proof, to back up your statement. Proof, not assumptions. At this point in time, you still haven't provided any. All you've told us was that you didn't own one and you really didn't know. You said just saw some guy on YouTube posting about what may or may not have been the same thing, and that is what you were basing your slander of this particular product.


Now you tell us that you use the term Piece of Shit to mean what ever you feel like it to mean at the time? I apologize for not knowing that about you. I'll keep it in mind for your future posts.

Facts? We don't need no facts. We got YouTube. :rolleyes:

To the OP of this thread: We really can't say one way or the other anything about the effectiveness of this sharpening device. All we can say for certain is that Ben Dale of EdgePro didn't sell it. It looks like an EdgePro Apex. It appears to operate like an Apex. What the results will be is anybody's guess.


Stitchawl

As it stands, you took issue with my statement and quoted it in bold. I was compelled to reply with my positions to make things clear because of this.

I believe I have shared some facts along the way. For you to deny that while my post is up above and reply with your youtube who needs facts mockery doesnt add anything to the what ive read that the angle markings on the fake is inconsistent. i find it ironic that you use the term slander for me criticizing a product which defaces an original brand that is supposed be protected by the law.

As I've said, I do not own one, but I have made an informed choice when I purchased the real thing, and hope others do the same. My comment wont change a thing, as the fake is quite popular especially in countries like Russia and China, so don't fret.
 
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There is a lot of discussion on this topic and I will try to summarize it so people don't have to read everything.

It is very wrong to purchase stolen property and pirated goods have been stolen from the originating company. Stolen property would cease to exist if the market disappeared and we can do our part to stop it.
 
There is a lot of discussion on this topic and I will try to summarize it so people don't have to read everything.

It is very wrong to purchase stolen property and pirated goods have been stolen from the originating company. Stolen property would cease to exist if the market disappeared and we can do our part to stop it.

That's very true, Bolt, but it doesn't answer the OP's question.
Why not start your own thread about the morality and ethics of pirated goods, instead of hijacking this thread? I think it would be very interesting to see the various opinions and rationalities expressed about that subject.


Stitchawl
 
That's very true, Bolt, but it doesn't answer the OP's question.
Why not start your own thread about the morality and ethics of pirated goods, instead of hijacking this thread? I think it would be very interesting to see the various opinions and rationalities expressed about that subject.


Stitchawl

The very fact that members such as yourself with over a thousand posts allow discussion over copied infringed items in this forum sickens me. And youre gonna turn it on guys like me who want to take a stand against piracy?How would you feel if you were Ben Dale and you clicked over this thread? Is it really okay to ask about a counterfeit product and wether or not it works? Try asking that about fake knives on reeves and hinderers subforums, see what happens to you there. When is enough, enough? What are we supposed to do encourage the guy to buy it while he already knows it is a copy? Its ability is irrelevant and with all due respect, the word slander is reserved for brands or parties with a backbone, a name, a reputation. Not stolen material. Disgusting, I will not be frequenting this subforum anymore.
 
Stitchawl, Sir, you don't seem able to grasp some simple concepts, and seem hell bent on defending the actions of criminals.

Bluntcut, Sir, I will quote you here too, because I feel you are under preconceived notions as well.;
Quote; Which patent# does this chinese knock-off infringed? Does IP for this industry recognize worldwide? Does this device usable or just crap? Without clear evidences, we should stay with the device functional merit and avoid lambasting reaction.

Bluntcut, do you really need a patent number in order to decide if this is patent infringement? Does IP stand for "International Patent"? Doesn't that answer your question? Can you explain why we should leave morality and legality out of the picture? Those are a couple of extremely legitimate issues to most people. At least I sure hope they would be.

You both keep referring to the original post, but you are definitely putting your own slant on it. You keep asking "Does it work". That's NOT the question posed.

The only question asked is, "Does this sharpener seem any good?". Not "Does it work?". Not "Does it look just like my Apex?". Not Anything else.

Let's all stay on track.

The OP: "Does this sharpener seem any good?"

Most of us are answering this broad and ambiguous question in the spirit of the American people, and the Laws of this country. Our answers Are addressing the OP's question. Given the breadth of the actual question, how in the world are you narrowing the focus to whether or not someone has tried it, or whether it works?

I'm not sure, but it seems to me that most or all of us feel like this sharpener is Not any good, and we can't care less whether or not it works.

When answering a question, why should we ignore the morality and legality of the answer?

It's Not Any Good that this product is even Available in the US. It's against the laws of this country to blatantly copy a patented product as closely as possible, and sell it in this country.

That's going to be it for me on this topic as well, I sure hope.
 
I usually stay with blunt facts minus partial feelings about products, innocent until proven wrong/guilty - yep that's the spirit.

Infringe is not applicable in public domain. Exactly why I asked, is there a patent to protect Intellectual Property? otherwise these various type of sharpner devices concepts are public domain. Critically, if you look at WickedEdge system, it's a pure combine copied of DMT Aligner & EP. Oh wait, which is a cloner Aligner or EP or both :p. And obvious this knock-off didn't infringed EP's trademark.

Learn freehand sharpening => problem solved <= hmm may be not :yawn:
 
There is a lot of discussion on this topic and I will try to summarize it so people don't have to read everything.

It is very wrong to purchase stolen property and pirated goods have been stolen from the originating company. Stolen property would cease to exist if the market disappeared and we can do our part to stop it.







Great post :thumbup::thumbup:
 
I own one of these i purchased on ebay for around $28, shipped. The stones and attached "holders" are much cheaper than the edge pro, but the suytem works very well for me. there are even extra stones available on ebay as well. overall, the quality is ok, especially for the price. i actually purhased this before seeing the real edge pro. i didn't know it waqs a copy, but it obviously is. if the copy thing bothers you, then spend 10x as much and get the "real" thing. otherwise, this is the best sharpening system for the money i have found.
 
I've talked to Ben, he's an awesome guy, and bends over backwards to help guys work with the EP, and solve any problems his users might have. It makes me rather upset to see some jerkoff in China profiting from the good name that Ben has spent almost a decade building.
 
Regarding the existence of a patent for the Edge Pro (in it's original form, apparently):

'Professional Cutlery Sharpening Machine', patent #5,185,958; issued Feb 16, 1993 to 'Benton Dale':

http://www.google.com/patents?id=tcknAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

( I have no horse in this race, nor dog in this fight, nor any such sharpener in my toolbox. Therefore no personal opinion on the matter. But, the question of the patent made me curious enough to go looking... )


David
 
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