Don't Regret the Snark

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worldwood said:
No offense taken at all bud, its a great question. And I agree that normally if a company is hiding stuff from the customer its normally bad, i agree to that.

But to answer your question, I test the knives myself with a buddy, like i said im after the best of the best in MY uses, so just because i prefer it doesnt mean others will for their uses. But i have tested SR101 extensively against steels from multiple categories including kabar's 1095CV, rowens 1095, s30v, S35VN, 5160, and D2, these are all i remember at the moment but SR101 was the clear winner for us. i have a buddy with a nice collection as well, and together we put all our knives against each other to find the best... FOR US, again this is subjective and personal opinion based on our uses and wants.

I cant always go off what i read, the boards will say INFI is stronger than SR101, but i disagree and argue that SR101 holds its edge better, yet others disagree, I have read that S30V is still better than S35VN, and i disagree, so im not trying to define or point out the the best steel in the world period, simply what works best for me and what i personally prefer.... well me and my buddy anyway.

We dont test professionally or use scientific methods or any of that, we cut, chop, and baton the same material with each steel, put into groups of FFg and saber and V grind and convexed edges, then we see how long they stay sharp, if any damage is done and how quick they get the job done.

Id prefer to know the exacts with any knife i get, but that wont stop me from wanting what works best for me, i might not know the HT details of SR101 but i know it has out-performed every steel we have ran thru our test.

I dont just go off what ANY companies say, Jerry makes a point to say that SR101 is better than 3V, 3V is just more resistant to rust and INFI is better than them both, i dont agree INFI is better than SR101... And i wont agree that SR101 is better than 3V until i test it myself.

But again my results are not professional scientific data for the world to go off of, simply for me to find what i personally think is the best for my applications.
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O.K. thats well said and explanitory thanks for taking the time. These tests that you and your buddy did.... Did you document it and do anykind of review. that would be a intersting read if you have it available.
 
james terrio said:
I stand naked under a full moon facing due North and use panther pee and the blood of red-headed virgins to give my blades super-duper strength and cuttingness. There, my secret is out!! :D
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Man now i want a growl even more LMAO

crimsonfalcon07 said:
At the end of the day, the application is pretty darn important. I don't use a whole lot of 52100 because most of my blades are 2 or 3 feet long, and 52100 isn't well suited for those applications. Each steel has its niche. I personally think it's hard to beat properly done 3V for tough use though.
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And i cant wait to test out the 3V! Dan also said its hard to beat properly heat treated 3V in hard use. And the largest knife i have that is 52100 is the one i just got from Dan so im not sure how 52100 would be in a sword after a lot of use. I have used a swamp rat sword a very little but not enough to judge its effectiveness. Im going to really enjoy testing out the ones you are making!! I have no doubts they will be tough!!
 
Those kind of tests are great fun and very helpful when comparing designs/makers/manus; the W&SS/Beckerhead Challenge last spring was a blast and I learned a lot! But they have a fatal flaw if you're really trying to compare steels honestly and accurately.... the knives aren't all built/ground the same. A nice thin edge in crap steel will outcut a thick blunt one in awesome steel, etc.

One of my fondest dreams is to build test samples of my two basic standard models in at least three different steels (probably CPM-154, CPM-3V, 52100 and maybe Elmax... might as well throw 1095 in there as a baseline) at two different Rockwell hardnesses each (say, 58Rc and 61-62Rc), with the geometry being as close to exactly the same as I can make it. Then gather together a group of reasonably sane and knowledgeable folks to compare them in a blind test. That would really be fun and interesting, but it would cost upwards of $1500/model and take for-freaking-ever... so don't hold your breath on that. :(

Ray Settanta said:
Maybe the naked part of your formula scares the steel into becoming hard. :D
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granitestateofmind said:
Or something other than fear....;)
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worldwood said:
Man now i want a growl even more LMAO
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Oh stop, you're makin' me blush :o
 
TMHunt said:
O.K. thats well said and explanitory thanks for taking the time. These tests that you and your buddy did.... Did you document it and do anykind of review. that would be a intersting read if you have it available.
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We do have ALL of our results written down in a notebook, I never posted them mostly because i dont think its fair to compare a 70 dollar knife to a 500 dollar knife especially online where people can misinterpret and think your saying one is no good, when really we are just saying which performs better for you, and a lot of people would judge and say the test dont prove this or that and we are not doing it to prove anything to anyone else, we are just looking for what we like the best... And we honestly just enjoy testing them out, its truly a lot of fun.

But one on one comparisons for every steel i mentioned is in my notebook, if your interested i can try and type it up later this evening or tonight after everyone is asleep and send you a copy via PM or email. I dont want to post it online and anyone think i said 1 knife is better than another knife.
 
worldwood said:
We do have ALL of our results written down in a notebook, I never posted them mostly because i dont think its fair to compare a 70 dollar knife to a 500 dollar knife especially online where people can misinterpret and think your saying one is no good, when really we are just saying which performs better for you, and a lot of people would judge and say the test dont prove this or that and we are not doing it to prove anything to anyone else, we are just looking for what we like the best... And we honestly just enjoy testing them out, its truly a lot of fun.

But one on one comparisons for every steel i mentioned is in my notebook, if your interested i can try and type it up later this evening or tonight after everyone is asleep and send you a copy via PM or email. I dont want to post it online and anyone think i said 1 knife is better than another knife.
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I appreciate that but its not worth the effort. I thought it would just be interesting to read if you had it handy. Thanks. But since we got that issue put to bed, maybe know we can tackle the "no sheath option" and the logic behind that! ;)
 
james terrio said:
Those kind of tests are great fun and very helpful when comparing designs/makers/manus; the W&SS/Beckerhead Challenge last spring was a blast and I learned a lot! But they have a fatal flaw if you're really trying to compare steels honestly and accurately.... the knives aren't all built/ground the same. A nice thin edge in crap steel will outcut a thick blunt one in awesome steel, etc.

One of my fondest dreams is to build test samples of my two basic standard models in at least three different steels (probably CPM-154, CPM-3V, 52100 and maybe Elmax... might as well throw 1095 in there as a baseline) at two different Rockwell hardnesses each (say, 58Rc and 61-62Rc), with the geometry being as close to exactly the same as I can make it. Then gather together a group of reasonably sane and knowledgeable folks to compare them in a blind test. That would really be fun and interesting, but it would cost upwards of $1500/model and take for-freaking-ever... so don't hold your breath on that. :(
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Yes the hardest thing we run into is trying to group them as close as possible with the grind/geometry, and its not easy. And because of this we know the test are not exactly "accurate" all the way. we do try and keep them close, but we dont have a caliper or anything so really we just eyeball them. The main thing we test for is edge retention, how long each knife stays sharp and we try and test them against as similar blades as possible, but even with our knives combined its not always a very good match. We do the best we can with what we have though.

And your test sample dream sounds excellent, that would be a great way to test steels out on your models, especially if you dont tell the tester which steel he/she is using, then there would be no bias or favoritism shown towards a certain steel.
 
TMHunt said:
I appreciate that but its not worth the effort. I thought it would just be interesting to read if you had it handy. Thanks. But since we got that issue put to bed, maybe know we can tackle the "no sheath option" and the logic behind that! ;)
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Now that is one part of Garys model that I just LOVE
 
Jerry D. said:
Dern it... I'm out.
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Keep in mind, I'm using Beckerhead Gatherings as a baseline for "reasonably sane" ... so there's... umm... wiggle room in that regard. :p :D

The knives would absolutely have to be unmarked as to steel type and finished the same to prevent bias, that's the whole point. :)
 
TMHunt said:
I appreciate that but its not worth the effort. I thought it would just be interesting to read if you had it handy. Thanks. But since we got that issue put to bed, maybe know we can tackle the "no sheath option" and the logic behind that! ;)
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Oh im on your side with this argument, for the price they should DEFINITELY include a sheath, no doubt. Even if its nylon junk they should include something. I dont like having to wait to have a sheath made before im comfortable taking my knife outside. Most likely i would still have custom sheaths made as i enjoy having custom rigs made, but it would be so much better to have something until the custom sheath is finished.
 
damn, more orange in here than other colors.. love the meeting of the minds in here.. and I am not just talking about Tradewater, Moose, and Murph... :D
 
Now now guys I love it that Busse dosnt come with sheaths because a lot of people don't have fancy drawers like you WW and they buy pants for them.
 
worldwood said:
Oh im on your side with this argument, for the price they should DEFINITELY include a sheath, no doubt. Even if its nylon junk they should include something. I dont like having to wait to have a sheath made before im comfortable taking my knife outside. Most likely i would still have custom sheaths made as i enjoy having custom rigs made, but it would be so much better to have something until the custom sheath is finished.
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Well, it does provide other skilled craftsmen so opprotunity and Im all for that.... I was also wondering, That Keffelar chopper you recently aquired. I know a lot of time comp cutters dont come with much more than cover for the blade but did it include anything? By the way, I really like that thing. Looks well thought out with good craftsmanship.
 
CCMI said:
Are the Bussekin heat-treating "recipes" actually protected as intellectual property? Or are they just kept a secret like Bush's Baked Beans?

Edit: or maybe a better questions would be are any makers heat-treating considered intellectual property?
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Jerry Fisk was talking about this at Ethan's. I think we can all agree that he's forgotten more than most people will ever know about the business of making blades. He said back in the day no one shared anything in the knife making world. Everything was proprietary and secret. If you wanted to learn something, it was by reading everything you could get your hands on or learning by trial and error. He went on to say he thought it was funny how these days there were so many knife makers willing to pass along their latest ground breaking technical discovery on youtube. It's a relatively recent trend to tell every detail of your business to anybody that will listen, and for people to expect it.
 
Psyop said:
Now now guys I love it that Busse dosnt come with sheaths because a lot of people don't have fancy drawers like you WW and they buy pants for them.
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I love my knife "drawer" its one of the best gifts my wife ever got me!! looks great and holds quite a few blades in it. But i also order custom sheaths quite a bit.

TMHunt said:
Well, it does provide other skilled craftsmen so opprotunity and Im all for that.... I was also wondering, That Keffelar chopper you recently aquired. I know a lot of time comp cutters dont come with much more than cover for the blade but did it include anything? By the way, I really like that thing. Looks well thought out with good craftsmanship.
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He did include a sheath that works perfectly fine, But eventually i will have a nice belt rig made up for it, as i do with almost every knife i really like.

And thanks man, it is extremely well thought out and designed, from the handle all the way to the tip of the blade. the more i use it the more i love it, normally after using something a bunch i can find things i would prefer were done different, but with this thing its just perfect for me honestly.
 
tradewater said:
Jerry Fisk was talking about this at Ethan's. I think we can all agree that he's forgotten more than most people will ever know about the business of making blades. He said back in the day no one shared anything in the knife making world. Everything was proprietary and secret. If you wanted to learn something, it was by reading everything you could get your hands on or learning by trial and error. He went on to say he thought it was funny how these days there were so many knife makers willing to pass along their latest ground breaking technical discovery on youtube. It's a relatively recent trend to tell every detail of your business to anybody that will listen, and for people to expect it.
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I sure as hell wouldnt by a car if the salesman refussed to tell me any details about it. I dont disagree with anything you said about Mr. Fisk. but this is a lot more competetive time. If I had the money to afford on of Jerrys knives. If he was unwilling to answer the questions I had concerning it. I would go to the next table. Its that simple for me.
 
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