- Joined
- May 13, 1999
- Messages
- 1,926
I only "expect" compromise from a maker when I'm compromising. The only time I've ever hinged a deal on the price coming down was when I bought more than one knife.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Don't you just hate when someone asks if you could do better on the price!
- Thread starter Rene E. Roy
- Start date
- Status
This is an interesting discussion.
Another point to mention is once you have compromised a price once - it is many times expected in all future dealings.
I recommend a no-haggle policy - with the lowest possible prices posted to the public. It makes things easier for the buyer and seller.
Larry
------------------
KnifeArt.com
BladeForums.com Sponsor
Another point to mention is once you have compromised a price once - it is many times expected in all future dealings.
I recommend a no-haggle policy - with the lowest possible prices posted to the public. It makes things easier for the buyer and seller.
Larry
------------------
KnifeArt.com
BladeForums.com Sponsor
I am a buyer of custom knives, not a maker or dealer, and I am appalled by the idea of asking a maker to haggle on price! Who does the asker think he is to question the judgement of the maker as to the value of what he himself has created? If the maker has overjudged the value, the marketplace will inform him of it by not buying his knives; if he underrates himself, he'll wind up with a long backog. Either way, it is up to the maker alone to decide what reaction to make to these market forces. If he is selling to a dealer, and recognizes the myriad of benefits a good dealer can bring to his business, then striking a discounted deal, especially on volume, is a perfectly legitimate course for both to pursue.
Dealers, on the other hand, are the arbiters of where supply and demand meet. They are the only true guide to how much a knife is "worth", at least in terms of dollars. And, while the dealer is trying to maximize his profits, he also wants to discover the actual price at which a knife will sell. The only way that can be determined is through a bid process (ie, haggling, just like what occurs on the stock markets), so I think it is absolutely acceptable - and probably essential - to make an offer to a dealer that differs from his asking price.
The distinction between the roles played by a maker and a dealer (or for that matter, someone selling on the "knives for sale" portion of this site) is the crucial one to observe in this discussion. I think that if some thought is given to this, most people would conclude that it is insulting and rude to underbid a knife maker.
Dealers, on the other hand, are the arbiters of where supply and demand meet. They are the only true guide to how much a knife is "worth", at least in terms of dollars. And, while the dealer is trying to maximize his profits, he also wants to discover the actual price at which a knife will sell. The only way that can be determined is through a bid process (ie, haggling, just like what occurs on the stock markets), so I think it is absolutely acceptable - and probably essential - to make an offer to a dealer that differs from his asking price.
The distinction between the roles played by a maker and a dealer (or for that matter, someone selling on the "knives for sale" portion of this site) is the crucial one to observe in this discussion. I think that if some thought is given to this, most people would conclude that it is insulting and rude to underbid a knife maker.
- Joined
- Oct 4, 1999
- Messages
- 551
I too have had this problem. I get to the point sometimes where I want to tell the person to go home and make the knife himself then come back to me and let me tell him how much I want him to charge for his knife. Maybe then they will appreciate the time, effort, expense and danger involved in the process. Don't haggle with a maker unless you have walked a mile in his work boots.
- Joined
- Oct 21, 1999
- Messages
- 292
Greetings all. Im new to the board and have been reading your thread. I find that reguardles of the craft some times it is the stifaction of seeing some one who aprecates(SP) the quality of you work. I may be nieve in this thinking but I have tanned hides & took a loss on the proffit in order to see someone who could not afford my sevices recieve them at a price that they could afford. I take it on a case by case. Some times the one who doesnt have the money at the time will look for you when they do have the money. Just my opinion and my way of doing any busness.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 1998
- Messages
- 426
Hmm, I guess the basic problem here is that the question can't get a uniform answer from everyone, because everyone (on both sides of the table) is approaching this with widely varying philosophies.
Many makers, at one end of the spectrum, work from the philosophical viewpoint expressed here by RJ of "I'm pricing my knives fairly based upon what they cost me in time and materials, so, no, no discount is available." At the extreme other end of the spectrum, I've heard stories (and likely so have you) about fresh-out-of-the-starting-gate makers who look around and note what the really famous and highly-sought-after makers are charging, and then price their knives in the same ballpark, figuring that's just the "going rate", without taking into account that the famous maker has "paid their dues" and they haven't yet -- some of these could stand to be taken down a notch (I don't think we have any of this latter type here). In the middle, you've got makers who figure time and materials, and a profit margin, which can vary. For them, Joe Talmadge's approach at a slow show is probably reasonable -- cut the profit margin a little in trade for making a sale that otherwise might not happen.
As well, with buyers, at one end of the spectrum, you may run into the person RJ found, who is very well off but also very cheap, who demands a substantial discount just because they figure maybe they'll get it (who knows, maybe that's how they got so wealthy), while at the other end of the spectrum is the starving student, or the person of limited means who's just really taken with a particular knife of yours. A discount here, well, maybe it just makes you go home happy knowing that the knife is in the hands of someone who will really appreciate it, or, who knows, maybe the starving student is pre-law or pre-med, and will remember that first transaction fondly and will be buying your knives by the dozen in five years.
As a prospective buyer, I don't think I'd ever initiate any sort of request for a discount -- I figure the price posted is what the maker expects for the knife, and I have to make my own decision about whether that knife is worth that much to me. I have had the experience, however, while taking some time to decide whether a certain knife (or whatever) is the one I want to take home, of the seller misreading my hesitancy as concern over the price and offering me a discount that I wasn't looking for.
(Ooh, bad grammar, I'll stop now.)
My $0.02...
------------------
Carl /\/\/\ AKTI #A000921
Think this through with me ... Let me know your mind
Wo-oah, what I want to know ... is are you kind?
-- Hunter/Garcia, "Uncle John's Band"
Many makers, at one end of the spectrum, work from the philosophical viewpoint expressed here by RJ of "I'm pricing my knives fairly based upon what they cost me in time and materials, so, no, no discount is available." At the extreme other end of the spectrum, I've heard stories (and likely so have you) about fresh-out-of-the-starting-gate makers who look around and note what the really famous and highly-sought-after makers are charging, and then price their knives in the same ballpark, figuring that's just the "going rate", without taking into account that the famous maker has "paid their dues" and they haven't yet -- some of these could stand to be taken down a notch (I don't think we have any of this latter type here). In the middle, you've got makers who figure time and materials, and a profit margin, which can vary. For them, Joe Talmadge's approach at a slow show is probably reasonable -- cut the profit margin a little in trade for making a sale that otherwise might not happen.
As well, with buyers, at one end of the spectrum, you may run into the person RJ found, who is very well off but also very cheap, who demands a substantial discount just because they figure maybe they'll get it (who knows, maybe that's how they got so wealthy), while at the other end of the spectrum is the starving student, or the person of limited means who's just really taken with a particular knife of yours. A discount here, well, maybe it just makes you go home happy knowing that the knife is in the hands of someone who will really appreciate it, or, who knows, maybe the starving student is pre-law or pre-med, and will remember that first transaction fondly and will be buying your knives by the dozen in five years.
As a prospective buyer, I don't think I'd ever initiate any sort of request for a discount -- I figure the price posted is what the maker expects for the knife, and I have to make my own decision about whether that knife is worth that much to me. I have had the experience, however, while taking some time to decide whether a certain knife (or whatever) is the one I want to take home, of the seller misreading my hesitancy as concern over the price and offering me a discount that I wasn't looking for.
(Ooh, bad grammar, I'll stop now.)
My $0.02...
------------------
Carl /\/\/\ AKTI #A000921
Think this through with me ... Let me know your mind
Wo-oah, what I want to know ... is are you kind?
-- Hunter/Garcia, "Uncle John's Band"
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,842
Well yeah, as in any other retail transaction, buyer and seller need to a find a price they agree on. There are a lot of makers with whom I would never give a counteroffer, simply because I know they never accept counteroffers, or because I can see there's great demand for their knives. On the other hand, there are plenty of makers whose name or craftsmanship can't quite support their pricing structure -- when I see that, I will make a counteroffer every time. Note to the sensitive -- that's "counteroffer", not "insult". A retailer needs to learn that offers are not insults, regardless of what exactly he's retailing. If the maker is going to retail his knives himself, he needs to put on his retailer's hat, IMO.
Anyway, in the end, I can appreciate that a maker prices his wares based on what the knife is worth to him. But to be frank, I much more concerned about what the knife is worth TO ME. And if there's a mismatch between the two, and circumstances are right, I will counteroffer every time. The maker can accept or not accept, I can buy the knife anyway or not. It doesn't even occur to me that I should worry about someone's feelings getting hurt in a business transaction. Maybe if I sent a little bouquet of flowers with the counteroffer?
Of course, the thing about counteroffers is, as in anything else, to do so with some grace. I get the feeling most of these complaints are about "nuisance" customers, whose counteroffer styles are a bit grating. It's always a pain dealing with annoying customers -- but it's possible to counteroffer while being straight-up and courteous.
Joe
Anyway, in the end, I can appreciate that a maker prices his wares based on what the knife is worth to him. But to be frank, I much more concerned about what the knife is worth TO ME. And if there's a mismatch between the two, and circumstances are right, I will counteroffer every time. The maker can accept or not accept, I can buy the knife anyway or not. It doesn't even occur to me that I should worry about someone's feelings getting hurt in a business transaction. Maybe if I sent a little bouquet of flowers with the counteroffer?
Of course, the thing about counteroffers is, as in anything else, to do so with some grace. I get the feeling most of these complaints are about "nuisance" customers, whose counteroffer styles are a bit grating. It's always a pain dealing with annoying customers -- but it's possible to counteroffer while being straight-up and courteous.
Joe
- Joined
- Oct 4, 1999
- Messages
- 551
There are some people who do insult you by asking for half price. That is like a slap in the face. Even if I don't have a big name like some of the other makers out there I feel that my brother Barry and I make knives comparable to them. Half price? At that, why not give them away. Is it better to put an asking price higher than what you have to get out of the piece just for the purpose of some people trying to talk you down?
- Joined
- Oct 4, 1999
- Messages
- 551
There are some people who do insult you by asking for half price. That is like a slap in the face. Even if I don't have a big name like some of the other makers out there I feel that my brother Barry and I make knives comparable to them. Half price? At that, why not give them away. Is it better to put an asking price higher than what you have to get out of the piece just for the purpose of some people trying to talk you down?
- Joined
- Oct 4, 1999
- Messages
- 551
There are some people who do insult you by asking for half price. That is like a slap in the face. Even if I don't have a big name like some of the other makers out there I feel that my brother Barry and I make knives comparable to them. Half price? At that, why not give them away. Is it better to put an asking price higher than what you have to get out of the piece just for the purpose of some people trying to talk you down?
- Joined
- Oct 4, 1999
- Messages
- 551
Sorry about the repeats. I am getting some internal server error messages
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,842
Phillip -- Do you and your brother Barry sell knives as the Jones Brothers? If so, I remember seeing your stuff, pretty sweet!
Anyway, I understand your feelings on someone offering just 50% of your asking price. I wouldn't do that -- when I see a maker asking double what I feel his knife is worth, I just keep walking. I save counteroffers for when the maker and I are a bit closer to agreement.
You makers who don't like counteroffers -- do you feel the same when someone buys multiple knives. Sometimes a few friends and I will like a knife or knives from one particular maker. When that happens, we'll get together, and say something like "we'll take these 4 knives if you'll knock 10% off the price". Are makers just as sensitive over "haggling" for a bigger sale? Just curious.
Joe
Anyway, I understand your feelings on someone offering just 50% of your asking price. I wouldn't do that -- when I see a maker asking double what I feel his knife is worth, I just keep walking. I save counteroffers for when the maker and I are a bit closer to agreement.
You makers who don't like counteroffers -- do you feel the same when someone buys multiple knives. Sometimes a few friends and I will like a knife or knives from one particular maker. When that happens, we'll get together, and say something like "we'll take these 4 knives if you'll knock 10% off the price". Are makers just as sensitive over "haggling" for a bigger sale? Just curious.
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 7, 1999
- Messages
- 112
Well, the consensus among the makers is that they don't like haggling at all. Personally, I consider these guys artists and would not haggle, except if I was trying to buy more than one knife I would ask if they could give me a discount. My experiences are limited to gun shows where haggling is the usual custom and that may explain why this happens so often. As an aside, I remember one custom maker when asked if he could do better on the price, said, "no, the price is firm but I will throw in the sheath for free."
Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Poster's in this thread have hit on some good points.
First if you are buying 3-4 knives, yes there may be a discount.
Second, Guys like TomW who do not deal in knives and sell production type item's.
Tom, we are discussing custom knives, not nylon or other type pouches. You are coming at it from a different mind set. Most of your product is sold at a discount. So of course you should haggle. You probably haggle with the suppliers of your materials.
So while Tom is calling people Moron's and Stupid, perhaps he should consider the source.
I would challange you to go to a show and find a successful knife maker who discount's their knives.
If you do, pass on the knife. Because that maker has just done every other customer who has ever bought a knife from them a diservice. Additionally, the word gets around that this maker will "haggle" and no one will ever pay full price again.
I recomend to makers not to haggle, because I do not haggle. I sell 98% of my knives at the makers price. The majority of the makers I work with have an extended delivery time. So why would I discount. Buying through me, you get the same knife, from the same maker, at his/her price and you don't have to wait.
I ask you, if you were in my position, would you haggle?
What it comes down to is that each maker has to make up their own rules. But part of your thought process must be towards the future. Remember the guy who sold Bill Gates his operating system for $50,000.00. That system became MS-DOS. Bil Gates is now the richest man in the world and the other guy has probably spent the $50,000.00.
As RJ eluded to, keep your pricing fair and be able to explain why you price knives the way you do. You should have no problem getting the price you want.
Les
First if you are buying 3-4 knives, yes there may be a discount.
Second, Guys like TomW who do not deal in knives and sell production type item's.
Tom, we are discussing custom knives, not nylon or other type pouches. You are coming at it from a different mind set. Most of your product is sold at a discount. So of course you should haggle. You probably haggle with the suppliers of your materials.
So while Tom is calling people Moron's and Stupid, perhaps he should consider the source.
I would challange you to go to a show and find a successful knife maker who discount's their knives.
If you do, pass on the knife. Because that maker has just done every other customer who has ever bought a knife from them a diservice. Additionally, the word gets around that this maker will "haggle" and no one will ever pay full price again.
I recomend to makers not to haggle, because I do not haggle. I sell 98% of my knives at the makers price. The majority of the makers I work with have an extended delivery time. So why would I discount. Buying through me, you get the same knife, from the same maker, at his/her price and you don't have to wait.
I ask you, if you were in my position, would you haggle?
What it comes down to is that each maker has to make up their own rules. But part of your thought process must be towards the future. Remember the guy who sold Bill Gates his operating system for $50,000.00. That system became MS-DOS. Bil Gates is now the richest man in the world and the other guy has probably spent the $50,000.00.
As RJ eluded to, keep your pricing fair and be able to explain why you price knives the way you do. You should have no problem getting the price you want.
Les
Again the perpetual windbag has to attempt to have the last word.
You know absolutely nothing about the 20 some different products that I manufacture how i price them or how I buy my materials. Knife products are a new sub line. You are called a moron simply because it's the truth. Your arrogance in previous posts is extremely bad advice for anybody that has a lick of common sense about dealing with the consumer which welll supports my comments on you giving stupid advice.
You know absolutely nothing about the 20 some different products that I manufacture how i price them or how I buy my materials. Knife products are a new sub line. You are called a moron simply because it's the truth. Your arrogance in previous posts is extremely bad advice for anybody that has a lick of common sense about dealing with the consumer which welll supports my comments on you giving stupid advice.
Double Edge Dave
Moderator and Gold Member
- Joined
- Mar 27, 1999
- Messages
- 1,379
This is turning into a "Burger King" thread.It is flame broiled and everyone is trying to have it their way.How about everybody taking it down a notch and learning from the perspectives of others.
Take what you deem as helpful and don`t sweat the rest.Our group will never completely agree on anything and it would be boring if we did.
David
AKTI#150
Take what you deem as helpful and don`t sweat the rest.Our group will never completely agree on anything and it would be boring if we did.
David
AKTI#150
- Joined
- Apr 21, 1999
- Messages
- 739
I gave discounts in the beginning and wish I hadn't .Mostly because if you do it once it is expected in the future. Seems that I usually find out later that the guy that bought the knife at a discount sells it at the same show for a hansome profit. It's a really personal decision weather to discount or not I still do occasionaly .
There will be those that are only thinking profit potential ,and those that really want thr knife but are having a hard time financially.Do what you feel you should do .
As for you Tom W , Gee everytime you talk you have some malicious evil intended comment to make . I'm suprised the moderators havn't kicked you off of here you are a troll , I challenge the moderators to look at your responses and see a pattern of condescending comments , name calling , nefarious intent. I'll be reading a topic and then you make a comment and spoil it for everyone. Why do you feel this type of behavior is necessary? Please be civil or get off!
Ken
There will be those that are only thinking profit potential ,and those that really want thr knife but are having a hard time financially.Do what you feel you should do .
As for you Tom W , Gee everytime you talk you have some malicious evil intended comment to make . I'm suprised the moderators havn't kicked you off of here you are a troll , I challenge the moderators to look at your responses and see a pattern of condescending comments , name calling , nefarious intent. I'll be reading a topic and then you make a comment and spoil it for everyone. Why do you feel this type of behavior is necessary? Please be civil or get off!
Ken
Ken
Who the hell are you to speak for everyone in the forum and decide who gets off or stays? I will continue to adress any negative comments directed at me by you or anybody else. If you can't handle bluntness don't whine about it just don't read it.
[This message has been edited by TomW (edited 28 October 1999).]
Who the hell are you to speak for everyone in the forum and decide who gets off or stays? I will continue to adress any negative comments directed at me by you or anybody else. If you can't handle bluntness don't whine about it just don't read it.
[This message has been edited by TomW (edited 28 October 1999).]
- Status