Double-Ended Jack vs. Half Stockman vs. (my brain):

Right you are about the Levine IV Ed, they are very expensive and here in Europe, I don't think there are any copies! I'd like one mind:D:thumbup:
 
Modoc ED said:
I posted this in another thread when someone asked about books on knives.

Modoc Ed said:



The book does not have in index per-se but that can work to someone's advantage as it makes them search through the book for some information thereby causing them to absorb info on a wide variety of knives. We can discuss the knives in depth but sometimes, a book is always great as a go to for an expansion of what is being discussed in a thread.

LG4 is very desireable but it's fading availability and rising cost, when it can be found, is keeping it out of the reach of many newer knife enthusiast.

The Whittler is an interesting pattern. According to LG4, the pattern was not named by any manufacture but by whittler collectors themselves.
Click to expand...

Ed ,
I do not think it is sacrilege at all! My very well worn and tattered shop copy is the 6th addition. A wealth of information at a reasonable cost.
 
willgoy said:
Right you are about the Levine IV Ed, they are very expensive and here in Europe, I don't think there are any copies! I'd like one mind:D:thumbup:
Click to expand...

I'd be fine with a digital (eBook) copy as well, but so far it's not available.
Back to the topic...
Thanks to sarah for finally starting the PPR thread (under false identity). I had your same doubts about the half stockman actually.
Now, I'm the last person here that can say anything...but there are a few points I'd like to make.
First thing is that, unfortunately, it seems that a good part of the confusion is due to knife factories. Jeff's example of the GEC is a good one. Also, sometimes "new" patterns and configurations come out, and "old" names get mixed for the purpose. I don't have the picture reference now, but I remember clearly soeone (Paul? Doug?) posting an old Case knife labeled as "Trapper Jack"; it was, in fact, a two bladed jack (clip and pen blades) on the Case trapper frame.
As a newcomer in the world os US traditionals, I also struggle with nomenclature. Yet, I agree that it's good to know and use the proper names for each pattern.
Unfortunately, is seems that some knives should be described with periphrasis instead of short names (like, two bladed jackknife built on trapper frame), which would probably be "bad" for marketing.
Thanks again to anyone who's sharing their knowledge and thoughts on this thread. I still have alot to learn.

Fausto
:cool:
 
quattromori said:
I don't have the picture reference now, but I remember clearly soeone (Paul? Doug?) posting an old Case knife labeled as "Trapper Jack"; it was, in fact, a two bladed jack (clip and pen blades) on the Case trapper frame.
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Good memory Fausto! It was a 1978 Case 6207, called a Mini Trapper, but with a pen blade secondary, not a spey. It was mine, but I traded it to Paul. The same model number and name today has the more customary trapper blade configuration.

Here's a picture:

6207a.jpg
 
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This thread brings back some unwieldy memories. I once started a thread to be used as a reference for knife patterns, and got bogged down in confusing name-calling (the knives, not each other), and stepped aside for a while. I have been looking for the courage to go at it again, so maybe before I buy the farm . . . . .
At the slightest suggestion, Sarah, I will delete this post, but it might wind up clarifying a few things.
Here are two patterns, that can boggle the most stable mind, The so-called "Half Stockman" (no such thing, IMO), and the - wait for it:
Sleeveboard Congress Sheepfoot Jack (indeed such a thing!!).
The half stockman, like the half whittler is a figment, a half formed thought. I once heard someone call a Down's syndrome child a "half a person" - broke my heart.
Please don't use the term "half" when referring to pattern, unless you are referring to its length, i.e, three and a half inches, etc. etc.
O.K, O.K, let the arguing begin, but first look at the picture.
Halfwit1.jpg
 
Great thread. I like seeing all of the naming conventions.

I've seen these two Westerns called a half stockman pattern, but I think serpentine pen is more appropriate. They are single spring, 3 3/8" closed. I love the sleek California clip and the streamlined profile.

Western_652_f-5.jpg

Western Boulder 652 bone stag

Western_651_f-3.jpg

Western Boulder 651 pearl composition

One more, 3" closed length with squared bolsters.

Western_442_f-2.jpg

Western Boulder 442 bone stag

And Charlie. I love that half congress jack with the killer bone! :D
 
Educational and insightful. Thanks for the awesome info. I do have two questions though. If "half" is THE 4 letter word of the knife naming world then why do so many companys name their knives this? Do we call GEC's new half whitt a double ended jack or a double ended wharncliffe jack?
 
Nice Whole Serpentine pens, Hal!!
Jeff, the "half" is a four letter word to me, but I can't speak for all here.
I am feeling a little half-cocked tonight, when I look at the whole picture. But I think I am at least half right about the whole thing! Half of the time, it makes perfect sense, that is the whole problem, and sometimes I want to heft the whole discussion into a half mile deep hole!!:D

Either this last half-pint of Guiness has gotten hol'd of me, or I am tired and must retire!
A half-baked, but whole-hearted good night to you all!
 
I whole-heartedly agree, Charlie, with at least half of what you are saying.

Or is it that I am half-heartedly giving assent to your whole argument?

Maybe I need to retire as well.
 
quattromori said:
I'd be fine with a digital (eBook) copy as well, but so far it's not available.
Back to the topic...
Thanks to sarah for finally starting the PPR thread (under false identity). I had your same doubts about the half stockman actually.
Now, I'm the last person here that can say anything...but there are a few points I'd like to make.
First thing is that, unfortunately, it seems that a good part of the confusion is due to knife factories. Jeff's example of the GEC is a good one. Also, sometimes "new" patterns and configurations come out, and "old" names get mixed for the purpose. I don't have the picture reference now, but I remember clearly soeone (Paul? Doug?) posting an old Case knife labeled as "Trapper Jack"; it was, in fact, a two bladed jack (clip and pen blades) on the Case trapper frame.
As a newcomer in the world os US traditionals, I also struggle with nomenclature. Yet, I agree that it's good to know and use the proper names for each pattern.
Unfortunately, is seems that some knives should be described with periphrasis instead of short names (like, two bladed jackknife built on trapper frame), which would probably be "bad" for marketing.
Thanks again to anyone who's sharing their knowledge and thoughts on this thread. I still have a lot to learn.

Fausto
:cool:
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I've got an LG5. it was given to me by a mate whose wife bought it at a book fair.
If it doesn't contravene any copyright laws I'd be happy to scan and digitise some of the pages pertinent to this thread and email them to you. At my own expense for no charge.
maybe I'll go knock on the door over in BL s forum first.
Is that a good idea or what?
 
Don't ask, just send the copies!
I take the whole responsibility for this half-witted statement!!
 
Am I a half wit for asking if I can help someone?not sure where you're coming from
 
I have half a mind to call the copyright police...

In the meantime, would someone take a stab at putting a name on this pattern? It is 3 1/8" single spring.

7342_f-2.jpg

Schrade Cut Co 7342
 
Used to be that a fella might say "Hold on, I've got my jack knife on me..." and lord only knew what they'd pull out of their pocket. Might be a SAK of some kind, could be a soddie, perhaps a stockman pattern, or even a pen knife. Whatever it was, a "jack knife" could be most any pocket knife. This phenomenon is interesting in itself as a "jack" used to be one who does odd jobs, a labourer, or one who plies a manual trade. Sailors (ie. swabbies) were also known as "jacks." Perhaps it could then be reasonably argued that "jack knife" was the original term for "EDC knife?" :confused:

As for sticking with traditional terms and lingo, I'd say that it's a purely academic dilemma; only we knife-knuts are very concerned with the distinct classification and category. Average Joe don't give a hoot. It's important to remember our past, our roots, but still keep our eyes on the horizon. New patterns will pop-up with more Heinz 57 "half" this and "half" that than the old family farm dog! You must admit that there are some crazy hybrid patterns that defy instant recognition! Let's just roll with the punches and make a little room for new jargon and knife-slang... it's in the mail anyway, so to speak. ;)

And maybe... just maybe... I might prefer the term "half" to something ridiculous like "quasi" or "pseudo"... :barf: :p :D

Just tossing a couple coppers into the kitty... :)

-Brett
 
thawk said:
In the meantime, would someone take a stab at putting a name on this pattern? It is 3 1/8" single spring.
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Pun Intended?:D

Equal end pen. Equal end because of the frame shape , pen because of the size and blades on both ends. It is a pattern less common in pens because of the clip blade.
Beautiful little knife!

Pen knives in modern collecting terminology can be defined as small knives having a blade at each end, most times a pen blade being the secondary.
The original pen knives were either fixed blade knives with tiny pen blades or single blade folding knives with a tiny pen blade. Used for sharpening quills. These knives are referred by collectors today as "quill knives".
 
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In order to keep knife nomenclature more in line with current mores and values, it will be necessary to effect some changes to avoid gender issues, animal cruelty, perceived favoritism etc...

To that end, some suggestions:


Old Name -----------New Name

Stockman - Rancher (Alleviates potential gender discrimination)

Cattle Knife - Steak Knife (More inclusive and less demeaning to some species)

Muskrat - Furry Filet Knife (Why should just one small mammal bear the brunt?)

Trapper - Mountain Man Person (Less alarming to modern sensibilities and more in tune with suburban lifestlye)

Eureka Jack - You Smella Nice Jackie (Self explanatory and gender neutral)

Dogleg - Shank Knife (Alleviates mis-perceived canine cruelty and adds an alternative golf association)

Sodbuster - Country Squire (or "Princess"...season to taste...everyone's a winner!)

Sowbelly - Quasimodo (Sanctuary!)

Lockback - Lumbago (Oh my achin' back...)

You guys get the idea...tomato, tomahtoe....potato, puhtahtoe...ahhh, let's call the whole thing off.

Disclaimer: This post has not been approved by the ASPCA, DAR, FFA, Rainbow Coalition or any other organization. The responsibility lies entirely on the shoulders of Pertinux and Ken Erickson who have fanned the flames of name calling and finger pointing by trying to assign names when "lookey here" would have sufficed. ;)
 
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Blues said:
In order to keep knife nomenclature more in line with current mores and values, it will be necessary to effect some changes to avoid gender issues, animal cruelty, perceived favoritism etc...

To that end, some suggestions:


Old Name -----------New Name

Stockman - Rancher (Alleviates potential gender discrimination)

Cattle Knife - Steak Knife (More inclusive and less demeaning to some species)

Muskrat - Furry Filet Knife (Why should just one small mammal bear the brunt?)

Trapper - Mountain Man Person (Less alarming to modern sensibilities and more in tune with suburban lifestlye)

Eureka Jack - You Smella Nice Jackie (Self explanatory and gender neutral)

Dogleg - Shank Knife (Alleviates mis-perceived canine cruelty and adds an alternative golf association)

Sodbuster - Country Squire (or "Princess"...season to taste...everyone's a winner!)

Sowbelly - Quasimodo (Sanctuary!)

Lockback - Lumbago (Oh my achin' back...)

You guys get the idea...tomato, tomahtoe....potato, puhtahtoe...ahhh, let's call the whole thing off.

Disclaimer: This post has not been approved by the ASPCA, DAR, FFA, Rainbow Coalition or any other organization. The responsibility lies entirely on the shoulders of Pertinux and Ken Erickson who have fanned the flames of name calling and finger pointing by trying to assign names when "lookey here" would have sufficed.
Click to expand...

If I were younger this would have had me rolling on the floor laughing. I am, however, sitting at my desk laughing. :thumbup:
 
Peregrin said:
If I were younger this would have had me rolling on the floor laughing. I am, however, sitting at my desk laughing. :thumbup:
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Well, thank goodness for small things, Gary. I could hardly afford the lawsuit that causing you to fall and roll on the floor laughing might have engendered! :p:thumbup:
 
From some of the comments I've gotten I think I'd better go with the, Eureka Jack - You Smella Nice Jackie (Self explanatory and gender neutral) there Elliott! :D
Just in time to, I hear a new Eureka is about to appear!! :cool:

Dave
 
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