Dr David Darom's latest book

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Joss,

From every account I heard in the first two books, Custom Folding Knives and Custom Fixed Blade Knives, the barter (handmade knife for inclusion) was well worth the time and 'expense'. In fact, so much so, there was a waiting list for inclusion on the second one; the fixed-blade book.

Book 3: '100 Custom Knives and Knifemaking Projects in the Making' When the book was introduced, the concept was described and ANY maker was allowed the *opportunity* to be included. Yes, there was a fee for the priviledge (which was VERY moderate compared to the fee for inclusion for the fourth, and the value placed upon the first two).

One had to supply hi-quality in-progress photos, and a very good quality series of images for Dr. Darom to do his final image montage. I supplied a number of makers with this service, and charged them. I also gave makers a portfolio shot deal, beyond the book photos only, so it became win/win for all. No complaints from anyone to me about costs. All makers paid for photography for inclusion in the first two books as well.

There is value well beyond the financial measure, having a book that will be a reference and guide for years and years. Probably nothing like it will come out again at all soon. So, this opportunity was something you could opt in--or pass. Your call. Dr. Darom and Dennis Greenbaum talked to many makers and made the pitch, and let them know what it would cost. The success of the first two books helped fuel the third.

The short run production costs would not have been covered in the relatively low sale price (How much? $65.00 USD??), so a fee was imposed. As it always does, paying for a service weeds out those who are committed from those who are on the fence. I do recall that a number of makers backed away in the final months, and that allowed others to take their 'spots'.

Feel free to disagree with the concept, but for those makers, etc. who spent hard-earned money to be included and also the hard work and time to setup their own indoor shop with lighting and camera's, I would bet they don't feel their value is decreased. In fact they probably feel the opposite. These guys worked hard every step of the way. And the long-term benefit will be their lifetime reward of inclusion.

Little value is placed upon things that are free or easy. I support every person who spent money and time to be included in this wonderful book. That was a smart investment. :thumbup:

Coop
 
Jim - read what I wrote above:
Joss said:
I have nothing against people making a nice profit, but that reduces the value of the book to me, and their value as a representative indicator of the custom knife world.
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I'm not saying knife makers didn't get a good value for their $$$. I'm saying that collectors who bought this book thinking it was a good cross-section of the top makers were wrong - the book is a good cross-section of makers willing to pay the advertising cost associating with being published. Nothing wrong with one or the other, but they're not the same thing. In my case, it makes the book slightly less interesting & valuable. It's main value is as eye candy, so it's only a marginal decrease. Makes sense? ;)
 
Yes, agreed. It is not the definitive book. Perception is key. Did you make an assumption it included all the 'best of the best'? Assumption is a biatch. ;)

Yup, like you, many who I *wish* would have included themselves did not take up the opportunity. Dennis and Dr. Darom would be the only ones to know who was approached and who declined.

To use the trendy and tired new phrase: "It is what it is."

Thanks for the chance to dialog.

Coop
 
willing to pay the advertising cost associating with being published.
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I don´t see it quite this way Joss. I think of the book as a shared investment in creating knowledge, mainly for the un-eduacted collector in how things are done and how much trouble does it take to get to the results we see in the knives we buy.

That being said, the book benefits even those who are not in it, as in general it educates in how much pain in the butt it is to make mosaic damascus (for example) and, between the lines, why it costs a few bucks more. This is not your case Joss, you are a very educated costumer, but lots of guys around need to learn more.

So I see it as a group investment in knowledge, one well spent money, and not simple advertisement.
 
SharpByCoop said:
Did you make an assumption it included all the 'best of the best'?
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Jim you're being desingenuous. Anyone who would look to books with titles such as "Custom Folding Knives" and "Custom Fixed Blade Knives" has to make a guess what the selection factor was. Most people would expect that it would be quality or popularity (with some politics involved since you cannot remove politics from human endeavors). In the absence of specific information, this is not an "assumption" but a rational expectation. In fact, the titles were chosen specifically to encourage this line of thinking. I'm surprised to have to explain this.

Here, it appear that the selection factor was "willingness to pay within a wide pool of preselected makers". Of course it changes the meaning of the selection.
 
BrB said:
So I see it as a group investment in knowledge, one well spent money, and not simple advertisement.
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Honestly, most of the information is available for free on the internet, or in lower priced books. What is not available are the extraordinary pictures in such a luxury, glamour package.
 
I agree with Joss.

I have the first two books and did make the assumption that it was to point to some of the best. As Joss said, the titles somewhat imply that. Also, the advertising and premise seem to point to that approach.

I knew it wasn't all of the best as I saw that some people I knew should be considered in that list weren't in there. Also, there is only so much room in a book. In addition, I think some of the makers in the back (small sections) are probably "better" than some makers that were fully featured ("better" is such a relative and subjective term though).

I do find it a bit disapointing to find out how the selection was made.

It is certainly possible that some makers declined the offer because they are just too darn busy in trying to fill their orders and their multi-year backlog.

I wonder who ended up with all those nice custom knives in their possession - Dr. Darom, the publisher or maybe each got some of the knives?
 
In the latest book none of the knives were committed to anyone else, unless they chose a pre-arranged other deal. The makers could do as they pleased with their final projects.

Joss, do you know why Don Fogg, for example, was not (or did not) commit? I understand your point and it's surely valid. But what if he simply opted out? If he had the opportunity, and chose NOT to, then be frustrated at Don, not at the editors for his ommission. Ditto for any other luminaries.

This is speculative from me, as I really don't know how the notification process and advance notice was presented.

It's all good. I can't wait for my copy!

Coop
 
I'm not frustrated by the absence of Don per se.

Coop - whatever the selection method used, the universe can only be the makers who accept to be featured. So it doesn't impact the discussion of whether a selection method is better than an other.

Just to be clear, I've bought my copy of the book too.
 
Hey guys, sorry I'm late to this party. I've read your comments and let me try to address them.

David and I had worked together (somewhat briefly) when I wrote the the introduction to his 2nd knife book, "Art and Design in Modern Custom Fixed Blade Knives"... Shortly afterward we shared a room at the Blade show and got to talking about an idea for a third book, where the reader would have an in-depth glimpse into the knifemaking process. And as a result "The Art of Modern Custom Knifemaking 100 Custom Knife Related Projects in the Making" was born.

Unlike the first two books where David basically got to pick and choose, as he approached his personal favorites (certainly a very subjective process), we decided that, given the mission of this book, we wanted to recruit not only the most famous makers, but some of the up-and-coming makers, as well as some of the "everyday" makers from around the globe. Probably 90%, if not more, of the participants were makers that David and I specifically approached to ask if they would be interested in taking a spread in the book. We had final say as to who got in...and I can assure you that more than a few were (politely) turned away. Like the first two books there is a sizeable "editorial" section in the first 1/3 of the book, followed by page after page after page of photos showing knifemakers busy at work in their shops...After nearly 2 years of looking at those photos on an individual basis, when I finally received my advance copy I still found myself fascinated by all the many different ways that are incorporated, by makers from all over the world. And some of the shops...geeez!!!, I am more than a little envious.

Yes it's true that there was a very small fee involved. There was no way to avoid this without charging a ridicuously high, prohibitive price for the book. This allowed makers who otherwise might have to wait a long time to find a public venue for their work, which in this case was treated in a caring way by two guys who share their love for the craft. There were parameters... the most important of which was that the knifemaker had to be more than just competent (in our opinion), and still be able to provide very workable, in-progress photos. To that end I think that you'll find, that the end result speaks for itself.

There has never been a book like this...100 knifemakers (and steel makers, and engravers, sheathmakers, scrimshanders) inviting us into their shops and letting us "look over their shoulder" while they worked. With an average of 16 photos (full color) per 2-page spread, there are over 1500 images in this book! Although it is done in David's usual, very high quality fashion, it is an entirely different animal than the first two books. As someone suggested earlier in this thread, while it is a beautifully done "coffee table" book, it is every bit as much a reference book, and educational tool for collectors and knifemakers alike.

I am confident that you will all be very impressed with the outcome...I certainly hope so anyway. ;)

As of yesterday, the complimentary books that are earmarked for the USA particpants are on their way to me and I will be sending them out soon after their arrival here. I would love to hear more of your comments after you have seen the book.

Thanks.

Dennis Greenbaum :cool:
 
Joss has a very good point here but so does Coop.

I have the first two books and they are nicely done.

I will have to admit that I was very surprised when I found out how the makers got included into the first one and then the second, it changed my perception of the books quite a bit, not that there's anything wrong with it, it just is what it is.

The photography in these books is out of this world and anybody interested in custom knives should have them :thumbup:
 
and made my apologies as well.

The books are a wonderful addition to the knife book library, and have many gorgeous pictures. Like Mr. Greenbaum said above, the selection process for the two previous books is ENTIRELY subjective, and some made it that clearly should, some did not, and some that have no place, IMNSVHO, are there, but it is Dr. Darom's book, and not mine.

The uphill battle that we could all face is when a wave of buyers, previously dedicated to other arts/crafts arenas artificially inflate the cost of knives of the makers featured in these books, using them as a "trail guide" or "bible", ignoring other makers, perhaps more deserving of such attention, but that has always been a truth to some degree or another. It may not happen, but it could. Education is always important, but is not often easy.

A disclaimer at the beginning of the books would have been nice, and it would have/will be the way that I would do it, but again, it is not my book.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Wow! . . this thread suddenly took off! . . .

As someone who has edited a Guild magazine, and contributed text and photographs to international books and magazines for over 15 years I have to point out that "sourcing" content is one of the biggest challenges (if not THE biggest) facing knife publishers. Contrary to popular belief they are not spoiled for choice, they do not have knifemakers falling over themselves trying for column space, and none have the kind of financial resources to be able to fly around the world interviewing makers, reviewing shows, and taking photos. Knife makers make knives, it is what they do best. Most are not good at PR, photography, or writing. Getting an article out of a knifemaker is often like pulling teeth! Sourcing good photographic material is even more difficult. It is improving thanks to the efforts of Jim Cooper, Point Seven, etc but if I had a $ for every postcard sized happy snap which I've been given by knifemakers to use as a full page spread I'd be a happy man!

The bottom line therefore is that in knife books we see the work of knifemakers who have made the effort to be seen. Every knife book that has ever been printed is subjective in terms of who's work is shown. To get into any of Jim Weyers stunning "Points of Interest" series one had to part with $250+ way back in 1989. That was a lot of money back then. The KNIVES annual (not quite in the same league) is entirely dependent on the submission of photographs from makers or pro-photogs. There are fees, or exchanges, involved in other publications. There are fees involved in knife shows, and clubs, and guilds. It is the nature of the business. Editing a book such as David's series is a staggering amount of work and he, and Dennis, deserve every $ they might earn, for earn it they most certainly have!

Just consider some of the numbers . . .

dealing personally with 100+ knifemakers from all over the world via phone, fax and eMail . . .
editing 1500+ final photographs (excluding the 1000's more which had to be inspected before being rejected) . . .
given just 10 minutes per photo (way to conservative, probably closer to double that) that amounts to 250+ hours, just on the photos . . .
then you have the personal profiles of each maker . . .
and the articles in the front of the book . . .
the layout, and making sense of a jumble of photos the maker contributed . . .
and the to-ing and fro-ing of proof spreads . . .
and hurrying-up those who leave their contributions to the very last minute . . .

I've never met David or Dennis, but that is a helluva lot of work, and something of a steal at $65 per book!

We would all like to see our favourite knifemakers in a book, but a survey here in BladeForums for such a venture would probably raise a list of 500 or more knifemakers, resulting in a book of over 1000 pages, probably selling for $400+. Even assuming that the named knifemakers shared their customers enthusiasm and joined up it is clearly not practical. There is never going to be one definitive knifemaking book, but there are a number of world-class books out which, when put together, constitute a body of work which is very close to the ideal.
 
Hilton you addressed a point in which I hadn't even considered: the time factor in dealing with 100+ artists. (Example: Do you know why timeshare (condo) sales are so darn expensive when presented new? Because instead of selling a new unit once they have to sell it 52 times. Ugghh.)

I see passion in this thread and passion abundant in the book. Forget all the financials. How mezmerizing are you going to be when reading and learning from this book. A book you paid a mere $65 for. Textbooks cost far more than that. Cost/benefit is off the charts.

What Dr. Darom has convinced me in his MANY personal phone calls from Israel, his many emails as we figured out the makers best images to include, the hours of photo coaching and/or editing done with each maker to make their work presentable, was that this is entirely again a labor of love for the entire Custom Handmade Knife industry. No one is profiting richly off of the production of these books, outside of, hopefully, the makers themselves. Priceless.

Life is imperfect. Damn right. Here is a slice of our own world, like life. Myself, having an emotional stake in this book, of course I would support it. Having the friendships of Dennis and Dr. Darom as coaches and support to make this all work has given me insight to the processes and tasks and complications.

I like that there are detractors, and differences of opinion. It allows this dialog to take place. This has been nicely civil. The supporters are also apparent. Thank you!!!

Coop
 
A really interesting question would be "How would you select knives and makers to go in a "best of the best" book with a finite number of contributors?" - It would have to be subjective and therefore not everyone would agree with the final participants, therefore not everyone would accept the book as being the "Best of the Best" .........

What am I getting at? My point is that, if what I conclude above is correct, then any book of this type, regardless of selection criteria, must be regarded as a collection of high quality images and profiles, highlighting a spectrum of makers and knives, that are representative of the variety and diversity in the custom knife world. Your own personal taste and criteria for quality will then allow you to determine which ones are the "best" for you!

Stephen
 
I think that by being in these books the makers are going to be imortalized forever. This book will show a variety of talents form the beginner to the best and how they make their knives. That's what this book is about, 100 custom knives in the making.


edited, back to the shop

:o :foot:
 
Honestly, most of the information is available for free on the internet, or in lower priced books. What is not available are the extraordinary pictures in such a luxury, glamour package.
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That is true, but sometimes it takes a glamour package and luxury pictures ot make a point. Or just more than the internet. The knowledge printed there will last, will not become a broken link in a few months or years.

I understand you had an image of the book and that it was somehow damaged by the facts there was a small fee involved and that the selection process didn´t go as expected. The first issue regards the opinion of those who decided to make this investment in order not to make the book cost prohibitive, or just more accessible (specialy in places where currency exchange rates would turn it cost prohibitive). The second issue is in fact adressed in the preface of the book. I am not home right now and it will take me a few days to be back, then I will be more than happy to type that down.

I don´t mean to change your mind Joss, I have a lot of respect for you and it´s your right to think diferently. And that sort of thought that perhaps might get us to have better publications in the future, hack I don´t know... though I think it is the best publication I have seen so far it was never meant to be the Knifemaking Bible of All Time or anything like that.
 
Chuck Gedraitis (Striper28)- re your post...

I think that by being in these books the makers are going to be imortalized forever.
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Seems reasonable for you to make this statement - since you paid for your spot and you are in the Darom 3rd book.


Look at blade magazine, the more advertising you buy the more articles they run on you, or even put your knife on the cover. You may not be a top maker but your paying to make people think you are.
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On the July Blade cover there is a knife by Cliff Parker- from what I see, Cliff rarely advertises in Blade and when he does it is a small B & W ad. Contrary to what you say, I do think that Cliff "is" a top maker, and that the article (makers who make both the Damascus and the folder) was one where Cliff's work belonged. You are stating that he is "not" a top maker and that he paid to make people think so and get on the cover?

Shane Taylor's "Reign of Evil" (an incredible piece) was on the opening page (pg. 12) of the article. I was honored to be one of the 3 judges at the Blade Show last year and we all unanimously voted that knife, Best Damascus Knife. I can say without hesitation that this award was based on merit- I don't sell Shane's knives and I doubt that the other judges do either. There was a Blade magazine representative in the room with us, but that person did not interfere with our deliberations and we three all had to agree unanimously on each choice we made.

Whether Shane advertised in Blade or not was irrelevant to us. Also, from what I see, he did not take out an ad in the 2006 June or July issues.
From what I know, the last time he advertised in Blade was August 2004.

So, are you implying that Shane is not a top maker also, and that he too is paying for his treatment in Blade?

Anyway Chuck, you are entitled to your opinion and on a public forum like this, all are free to express how they really feel.

Have a great long weekend and see your at the Blade Show.

Regards, Neil
 
Chuck: WRT the original thread, I opted not to do the book. My choice.

WRT articles based on advertising $$ spent, I have been featured in BLADE regularly, yet I don't advertise with them. If I ran ads, they would get them, but, I'm not advertising with anyone right now. BLADE does an excellent job of not being biased based on $$.
 
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