Dual Survival worse than Man vs. Wild

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Jay, I was never paid to do Scouting, but I have done some. I find no wilderness survival course on the list of current B.S.A. course offerings, or on any I have going back 63 years. There is a Wilderness Survival Merit badge, but the pamphlet for that is a dog's breakfast of excellent, silly, horrible, and conflicting advice. And that MB is not required for Eagle. There is a wilderness survival session of about 50 minutes in Powder Horn training. I think we should do more. You are lucky to have the training that you describe.

Going barefoot when you have to is one thing. Going barefoot when you chose to is another. The wisdom depends on the situation and how thick the calluses are.

There are parasites that enter through unbroken skin on bare feet (Hookworm is the most common example. http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/hookworm/) and diseases that enter cuts and abrasions on bare feet, Tetanus for example. And there are health benefits that may outweigh the parasites, diseases, glass, thorns, poison ivy, sharp rocks -- and risk of frost bite in my current part of the world.

Can't find anywhere Cody suggested anyone else go barefoot. Most books on the subject of survival that discuss the subject strongly suggest footwear.

Cody presented a very useful structure for wilderness survival priorities in 98.6. He knows his stuff, generally. His comment that stainless steel knives are always harder to sharpen that carbon steel knives is a bit of a hoot, but not everyone is a knife knut or has sharpened the butter-soft SS that is the norm for the knives most people buy.

I don't think we should require folks to have TV shows in order to post here. That's a pretty tough standard, and based on the Bear, not especially meaningful. I don't think John Wiseman ever had a TV show - just his books and articles, but our UK members may know better.
 
kgd said:
From a rhetorical perspective Jay, you have now opened yourself to further inquiry about what you state above. If I were you, I would have left things as you think Cody is a jackass. Now folks are going to be asking you for details about your training and placing that into context of the show stars you are running down. Its a tricky thing trying to hype your own expertise like that on the internet. Personally, I wouldn't have went that route.
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Thank god for kgd, I always look for your sound reasoning since the entire survival knife hype breakdown.

But, since we're throwing names out there. OP might be a JACKASS.
ahh there... Feeling better already.:foot:

but kgd sums it up the best!

Thanks that is all
 
Thomas Linton said:
Jay, I was never paid to do Scouting, but I have done some. I find no wilderness survival course on the list of current B.S.A. course offerings, or on any I have going back 63 years. There is a Wilderness Survival Merit badge, but the pamphlet for that is a dog's breakfast of excellent, silly, horrible, and conflicting advice. And that MB is not required for Eagle. There is a wilderness survival session of about 50 minutes in Powder Horn training. I think we should do more. You are lucky to have the training that you describe.
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Yeah, IMO they should have more survival training in Scouts. The required stuff is a bit weak. I loved taking Wilderness Survival, it was one of my favorites. The counselor was amazing, knew so much and really got me started on the whole wilderness survival kick. The troop I was in was heavy on the Survival and outdoor skills, unfortunately IMO its really lacking in most Scout units.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
If Brian and I have to, we'll feed the both of you to a Sasquatsh.
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I think anyone who calls anyone an idiot is an IDIOT!

Wait, that didn't come out right.

I'd like to see an episode of Dual Survival with Dave, Cody AND a Sasquatch! Cody and Sasquatch could compare notes about their respective barefoot lifestyles.

...It could happen.
 
Just because it's entertaining doesn't make it crap. At least the dichotomy between the guys is fascinating. Pick and choose what you want from it.
 
cuphead said:
Thank god for kgd, I always look for your sound reasoning since the entire survival knife hype breakdown.

But, since we're throwing names out there. OP might be a JACKASS.
ahh there... Feeling better already.:foot:

but kgd sums it up the best!

Thanks that is all
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ALRIGHT LET ME PUT THIS OUT THERE.

I concede and sincerely apologise for calling Cody a "Jackass". After seeing the posts here it is apparent to me that my statement is very nieve of his lifestyle (to say the least) and completely off base after considering.

I will continue to personally believe that it is not an intelligent thing to do. But that is his lifestyle, not mine. I don't understand it, but again its his lifestyle.

I meant absolutely no disrespect to anyone here who walks barefoot. I do it too on a rare occasion, but not out on a survival trip.
 
jaymeister99 said:
Yeah, IMO they should have more survival training in Scouts. The required stuff is a bit weak. I loved taking Wilderness Survival, it was one of my favorites. The counselor was amazing, knew so much and really got me started on the whole wilderness survival kick. The troop I was in was heavy on the Survival and outdoor skills, unfortunately IMO its really lacking in most Scout units.
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This is partly why I got out of scouting. "Survival" was how to set up a tent, start a fire, and what kind of food to pack. I wanted it to be more along the lines of: "build your own shelter, start a fire with a fire bow, and then go forage for food." It never happened, so I cut out and started reading up and practicing on my own. The bsa does have its good points, but it just wasn't gonna work out like that for me.
 
jaymeister99 said:
Yeah, IMO they should have more survival training in Scouts. The required stuff is a bit weak. I loved taking Wilderness Survival, it was one of my favorites. The counselor was amazing, knew so much and really got me started on the whole wilderness survival kick. The troop I was in was heavy on the Survival and outdoor skills, unfortunately IMO its really lacking in most Scout units.
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Now this is something I agree with. Never was in the scouts but I had to help an eagle scout through basic compass skills.:rolleyes:
 
dougo83 said:
This is partly why I got out of scouting. "Survival" was how to set up a tent, start a fire, and what kind of food to pack. I wanted it to be more along the lines of: "build your own shelter, start a fire with a fire bow, and then go forage for food." It never happened, so I cut out and started reading up and practicing on my own. The bsa does have its good points, but it just wasn't gonna work out like that for me.
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Dougo, first... Peace!;)

I was shocked when I got back into Scouting (when I went Professional) just how lacking scouting is in the real outdoor stuff. When I was in Scouts we had to start a fire with wood and cook on it, actually on a campfire. When I went out as a Professional some of the troops didn't even have the kids cook! The leaders did it for em. Depends on the Troop too, some much better than others. For Survival its a good start, but most troops just don't go too far on real "outdoors" training (unfortunately).
 
I think he is a jackass for walking around barefoot. You can clearly see him struggle to keep up with Dave and you can hear him discuss what a challenge it is to do it...

He is going barefoot to prove you can, not because it's a good idea.

It's obvious he is a bright and skilled man but he and I mist have very different opinions on footwear and safety.
 
Shotgun said:
Now this is something I agree with. Never was in the scouts but I had to help an eagle scout through basic compass skills.:rolleyes:
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I once had to whisper the Scout Oath to an Eagle Scout so he could actually say it for his Eagle Ceremony!
 
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Smokinape said:
I think he is a jackass for walking around barefoot. You can clearly see him struggle to keep up with Dave and you can hear him discuss what a challenge it is to do it...

He is going barefoot to prove you can, not because it's a good idea.
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There is plenty of research out there that supports barefoot walking/running/whatever as it reduces strain on lower extremities. I cannot recall the study, but I will try to find it after dinner, fossilized skeletons from previous eras showed less degradation and lesions on the feet and toes than modern, shod man. It is also believed that walking barefoot increases strength in those barely used muscles of the lower legs and feet. This is why Vibram Five-Fingers keep rising in popularity. I am sure there are studies that counter this, but I haven't seen one yet.

That said, I don't walk around barefoot all the time anymore. I live in Austin and don't want to be mistaken for one of those nasty hippies we have.
 
I am sure there are studies out there to support just about any claim someone makes.

There is a time and place to be bearfoot, like in your home or garden. When you are in the woods the assumed benefits have to be weighed against the risks. I would submit the the risks Cody took out weighed the rewards...
 
Smokinape said:
I am sure there are studies out there to support just about any claim someone makes.

There is a time and place to be bearfoot, like in your home or garden. When you are in the woods the assumed benefits have to be weighed against the risks. I would submit the the risks Cody took out weighed the rewards...
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Aye!

I agree with you 100%. Most people here would agree 100%. Most people would think its not a smart thing to do. Even a dangerous thing to do. Even maybe (dare I say) dumb thing to do.

But this is the way this guy lives, he goes barefoot just about everywhere. You have to consider his lifestyle. Which can be difficult to do. I don't get it, but he does.
 
Ive taken to wearing vibram five fingers outdoors, i am very active and like to run and climb and move up things that look fun not the most safe or direct way and i feel that im most nimble with the minimalist footwear approach if i had the feet for it i would go barefoot. Being barefoot or minimally shod allows you to index your position relative to the ground in a way thats impossible in boots or even sneakers, a human foot has many moving pieces and wearing five fingers allows me to use my foot naturally and i find it very advantageous.
Also i got prodigious foot odor in afgahnistan and the five fingers let my feet breath more than anything short of flip flops and when ive tracked through mud i can just throw them in the wash.


Cody Lundin seems like a really cool guy, ave both of his books and while its not the "norm" i think its really good information put forth in a really good easy to absorb manner. I think people taking themselves to seriously is a sure sign of being second rate Just MHO
 
Oh and to jay, thats probably the first time ive actually seen someone really apologize over the net like a decent human being kudos to you sir
 
Smokinape said:
I am sure there are studies out there to support just about any claim someone makes.
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Indeed. I can only speak to the ones I have read.

There is a time and place to be bearfoot, like in your home or garden. When you are in the woods the assumed benefits have to be weighed against the risks. I would submit the the risks Cody took out weighed the rewards...
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Could you outline those risks v. benefits? Yes, there is the very rare chance he could get some pretty vicious parasite through the foot or a bad cut/infection, maybe even a broken ankle. However, in reading his books, this has not yet happened. The benefits, aside from those I discussed earlier, include the salary he picks up for it and the money he doesn't spend on shoes. Maybe I am just not following how his personal choice is such a problem.

Also, it should be noted that he:

1. does not advocate barefooting for everyone, but says it was a personal choice and the negatives are relatively small to him.

and

2. wears shoes when needed. He made some sandals one time for crossing a volcanic field to avoid being severely cut up. so, it is not as if he just walks around unaware of the consequences of being barefoot. He is a well-trained, well-educated outdoorsman who has probably put in more field time than most of those on this forum who want to deride his personal choices. He knows his stuff. He knows what works for him. I don't always agree, but I am not going to insult the man for doing what works. Food for thought.
 
I have a bare foot story that happened to me about 6 years ago. I parked the truck and hiked my yak about 200 yards to a river. My intention was to paddle downstream and return to the launch beach. Heck I even put a red cloth so would have no issue finding it. Didn't take long before I realized that the current was too strong for a return trip up stream. It was a bone head plan (new to yaks at the time :o) and rather than drift downstream 6 miles to a state park I paddled to the shore. Naturally it was all rocks and deep water right up to the shore. Dumped the yak fighting my way over the rocks but managed to pull everything to shore. The smart play would have been to leave the yak and hike back as was around 3 miles from my truck but once again did the stupid thing and carried my boat up an incline to some railroad tracks. Somehow I lost my sandals in the river and 1/2 way up the painful rocks (thanks to the Rail Road) and broken glass (thanks to someone's boozing) my Med Alice took a dump and the water plus headlamp flew out taking a header.

I walked down the tracks using the planks to protect my feet from the baking hot rocks. There must be somekinda oil treatment on that wood as my feet got covered in the stuff. All along carrying the yak. Not smart and should have just dropped it.:confused: Walked up though some tall grass then down a dirt road to my truck. No water sucked and my feet really hurt. This isn't a survival story rather a tale of poor judgment so take this within that context.
 
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