Duelling Knive's?

Ah. OK, if that's where you're coming from, it's more understandable.

But you're still utterly wrong.

Here's the deal: there's no moral difference whatsoever between defensive firearm carry and defensive knife carry. (At close ranges, even the practical differences fade, or in the case of somebody who REALLY knows what they're doing, there are actually advantages to knife over handgun at really close ranges, but I digress.)

In England, Australia and elsewere, people used *exactly* your arguments against "people killer" type guns in defending their "sporting arms". Many people who wanted to keep their target pistols, bird-hunting shotguns and sporting bolt-action rifles eagerly signed off on requirements to have guns locked and unloaded in the home, to put in bans on "ugly guns" with big clips, or all-black paint jobs and night sights, or defense-grade handguns.

Because after all, these people who wanted to keep "mankiller" guns were making the "sporting and collecting crowd" look bad, and increasing the pressure to ban guns.

Right?

WRONG!!!

Giving up home and personal street defense was the worst tactical mistake made by pro-gun forces in England and Australia and now Canada.

Why? Because #1, you can't keep guns out of the hands of criminals and lunatics, no matter what. So as soon as some jackarse takes one of the remaining legal guns and goes ape$hit with it against an unarmed population (such as the massacres in Scotland and Australia), you now have a government pondering a balance between the "right" of rich sportsmen to own "sporting arms" and the "right" of the general population to "be safe". Or at least, that's how they'll see it.

Well guess what? IF I thought your "hobby" was endangering my life, or if I'm a voter that can be convinced of that, your hobby is TOAST.

But in America, the dynamics of the gun rights debate is a whole different thing. Here, it's a matter of balancing my right to defend my life against crooks, versus dumb sheeple's percieved "right" to "feel safe" by banning my gun(s). So you get debates over which course saves more lives and guess what? HCI's side of that debate falls WOEFULLY short. Especially with the research by John Lott, Gary Kleck and many others.

That's why HCI likes to whimper about how "if it saves just one child's life"...lots of emotional impact, not a lot of fact.

Well guess what? KNIVES ARE NO DIFFERENT. The fact is, the one life I personally saved with an obvious "fighting knife" three years ago balances what some fool might do drunk in a bar, or in an armed robbery, especially since YOU CANNOT BAN KNIVES and keep them out of criminal hands. Hell, they can't keep knives out of PRISON, because any idiot can grind down a chunk of metal on some concrete and make a knife.

So these same "ugly tactical knives" can save lives, especially in the hands of somebody who knows what they're doing. Heck, somewhere around here I've got a police report from the time I did so (and I didn't know what I was doing yet
smile.gif
).

That fact, that defensive knives SAVE lives, MUST be brought into the public and political awareness as quickly and as widely as possible for the same reason we're doing so with guns.

Jim March
Equal Rights for CCW Home Page
http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw
 
We are now into 'dwelling knives,' because we keep dwelling on this thread. We agree to disagree.
As I stated, I believe in freedom, you do as you wish. I think this is silly, but I'm done here.--OKG
 
To each his own.
Once again this was posted to find out about knife defense practices both past and present. Whether people like it or not the need to defend yourself has and always will exist. I was mearly trying to get info on something I find interesting from both a historical and martial standpoint, not start a debate. Once again if anyone actually has RELEVANT info. please post it.

------------------
Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn my god do you learn.
C.S. Lewis
 
Kingtut, please refer to my first post, I thought that I had given you some very good information, both historical and current, on duelling knives.

------------------
Walk in the Light,
Hugh Fuller
 
FullerH I didn't mean to be disrespectful. I just started crying wolf.The info you gave along with Para, Emanym Ton, Smoke, Ken Cook, and most certainly Judge was/is highly appreciated. I think I'm getting a little to uptight and would appreciate it if someone would close this thread.
------------------
Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn my god do you learn.
C.S. Lewis

[This message has been edited by King Tut (edited 12-15-2000).]
 
King Tut, you were an unfortunate victim of others intolerance for some rather young inexperienced folks that I like to call the teenage wannabe Ninjamatic Rambotronic Deathmonger crowd. They pop up from time to time here and cause a little mayhem asking stupid questions like 'what's the best knife to non-lethally kill someone". Some of us have gotten very tired of these sort of threads.

I know you are not one of these types, and were looking for serious responses to what I think is a legimate question. I am going to leave this thread open for a little longer to see if you get some more good responses. I will watch it closely.

I am sorry that some of the posts in this thread have made you 'uptight'. That is unfortunate and I apologize for the words of some of my fellow forumites. Most mean well, but their experiances have made them really dislike even the idea of using knives as weapons. And some are concerned that 'the kiddies' can not tell the difference between your question, and something with a darker purpose. Anyway, I hope this thread gathers some more good HELPFUL responses. No others need apply.

Paracelsus
 
Thanks. I was beginning to feel like I was way off ground in asking a question like this, on a knife forum none the less. I'm glad some people understand that I, being a nipple neck, was not posting this to be a troll. Well, back into my vortex.
 
Not to stir the pot. But way back when, I asked for a MA's related forum on this site. It was initially rejected and then agreed to, leading to the existing three and "survival" forum.

I knew that questions/discussions about MA related used of edged tools would be frown upon by some and actively opposed by some others. This has been proven to be the case whenever a thread like this pops up.

I wish there is away to channel MA related questions to the appropriate forums. The "wannabe's" can be taken care of over there without stirring the commotion/emotion of some of the folks here. And legitimate questions like the one posted here can be given thoughtfull responses by those who have considered them through training and experience.

Respectfully,

sing
AKTI #A000356
 
Sing I understand what you are saying,but I don't think a question like Tut's should be a problem in the general forum.If I was on a firearms forum and posed the question"Does anyone have any info about the history of dueling pistols?"I surely would not expect a responses like the ones seen here.

paraphrasing:
Questions like this make us all look bad.
Children are starving and you martial artists are wasting money on knives and training that could help them.
etc...

This was a question about a type of knife not about wanting to slice and dice someone.
biggrin.gif

troy
 
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