Eating meat if you had to kill your intake?

Diomedes Industries

Diomedes Industries

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I am teaching a class on ethics this semester and the debate of eating meat got pretty heated (it is an online class - a very good one I might add).

I posed this question to my class. Image all of the meat preparers suddenly disappeared - and you had to prepare your own meat from kill to table. Further imagine that you had to (safely for this thought experiment) kill your quarry with a knife (I didn't want to divorce my students from the kill). How many of you would eat the same amount of meat?

I want to pose this question to you all here. I respect your opinions - and I want to change it up - just a little. I think the vast majority would continue to eat animal protein. If you answer that you would continue to eat meat. Can you estimate how much?

I want to have a nice discussion - but I also want to figure out what may be considered an ethical amount of meat for intake for myself. If I were to reduce my intake, say, to 4 ounces of meat per day - because that is what I would kill and prepare if I needed to - then I could argue (simply to myself) that this was a more ethical meat intake.

So - post what you will on this one - but let me know your thoughts.

EDIT: I am not trying to make judgments on eating more - nor am I claiming it is wrong... in the least. I am an omnivore. However, I am seeking help on the intake of meat that I consume - as well as general thoughts. PLEASE don't think this is some sort of PETA based attack. It is also not to make people squeemish. Dear God am I on the wrong board if I am trying to do that. I am merely trying to make an informed protein consumption decision.

EDIT 2: Let me clarify further - and I will amend the initial post.

My problem is not with the ethics of killing and animal - but given the fact that I NEED a lot less protein that I currently intake - I am using the parameter of 'eat what you would kill - if you had to' as a standard for how much I SHOULD consume now.

I don't think this is a binary question - I have no problem killing for meat - so I should kill and eat AS MUCH AS I CAN! I think that dishonors the kill and treats some living things not just as a means to a survival and wellness end - but treats them as a means to a taste end - or a gluttony end.

EDIT 3: I really do think that people attack our kind of people a lot. I am NOT trying to do that. I am one of you and I think this is a great board to have this discussion. Please don't 'raise up' against me or the question - that is not my intent and you will not see a personal attack launched from me in this thread.

TF
 
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I would continue to eat meat, and I believe I would probably be eating more meat than I currently do. This would be mostly because I would be dealing with whole animals, and would not simply be able to stop by the store and pick up a couple of chops, etc. Don't want to waste anything. I don't believe there is any ethical dilemma with killing animals for food, as long as that animal is honored and the meat not wasted.
 
It wouldn't bother me a bit in an ethical sense. I've butchered deer and pigs, and several of those pigs I did kill with a knife. It wasn't a wild hog hunt, just killing to get it done. No part of the process bothers me but it is a lot of work. Mac


By Colhane
 
CMD,

Let me clarify. I don't want to turn this into an ethical debate per se'. I am not judging or trying to start a word fight - I respect this board too much. I just want to know your thoughts.

I had NEVER thought about eating MORE if I had to kill it - but I think you are right. If I killed my own animals - I would have to get a LARGE freezer to house that meat.

Define for me 'honored' in your last sentence - I want to know more of what YOU mean by this word.

Pict,

Again - if you had to kill all of your own meat - how much intake would you have on a daily basis?

I am just looking for help making my own ethical decisions. I don't have a problem eating meat - but what amount is what I am looking for.

EDIT: Is it wrong that I wondered 'What kind of knife is that?' - rather than being 'offended' by seeing a dead animal? ;)

TF
 
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I was thinking that I'd probably eat more meat too, even before I read cmdionee's response. I would imagine that if killing a whole animal, you would be more inclined to not waste parts. Also, if you've killed an animal, it'll probably be easier to eat meat more often rather than going out and finding edible plants or farming. This is assuming that you can't buy plants at the store.

I don't have any ethical dilemas about it, although I've never hunted.
 
No problem cutting the animals throat.

No problem skinning, butchering

No problem eating as much as I could hold.

The only ethics problem I can see some having is the fact that you do not spell out how you would preserve the meat?

Some might have a problem killing a large animal only for a meal or two.

I do not suffer from that particular dilemma. If I were hungry and killed a deer to eat only a few meals and leave the rest, so be it. As long as the supply lasts. Buzzards gotta eat well as the worms.

I would eat the same amount or a bit more than I currently do. The equivelent of maybe one good sized steak and some bacon each day. 12 - 16 oz?
 
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I am assuming we still have access to a freezer correct? I ask because if no freezer was available, large animals would go to waste, so the focus would be on smaller game. Having to kill, gut and prepare every meat dish I was to eat would simply be too time consuming, so i would make a treat of it a couple times a week. On the other hand, I I still had a freezer to store meat from larger game, then I would be more inclined to eat the meat on a regular basis. I cannot say I would become more gluttonous, since I rarely overeat anyway, but merely knowing I have a fridge full of steaks can influence my decision even subconciously. It would be similar to ordering a large beef order for your freezer. It's full of meat, so it's always the first thing that comes to mind when thinking about dinner. Much easier than deciding to have a steak, heading out to safeway, waiting in line to pay etc. Sometimes that hassle will steer me away from a meat dish, even if that is what I truly desire.
 
Primitive,

I had thought about preservation as well. I would simply want to preserve that deer meat in the situation above - because I don't know when my next kill would come.

After watching "Into the wild" survival meat preservation can be a HUGE problem - that movie really brought that home to me. Had he been able to preserve that elk - he wouldn't have died.

I think preservation honors the kill as well - as mentioned above.

TF
 
I imagine that a good part of why I eat so much meat is because of how readily available it is in supermarkets and butcher shops. If I had to go out and kill my own meat with a knife from now on, I wouldn't eat near as much, not necessarily because I would have a problem the the killing and cleaning as a moral issue, but simply because it's a PITA. Now if it were a matter of farm raising the animals, breeding them, rasing them, processing on site, etc. and I didn't have a full time job, I might be more inclined to have the same intake as I do now.

If it's a matter of whether or not I can stomach the brutality of it all, no problem what so ever, but then again, I kill for sport, sometimes close enough to run up and kill them with a knife, and I usually cut up animals on the spot with my knife. If it's a matter of time consuming practicality, I don't know. I think that anyone who is as involved with the kill as me, up close and personal most of the time, wouldn't have a problem with it. Perhaps some of the long distance trophy hunters would. I do think that it would be a large shock and even a nauseating experince for anyone has has never started with a fresh kill and done the cutting themselves. Even people who have killed animals for sport that have not done the cutting might have a serious problem with it. There's something about pulling on the flesh and hearing the tendons and such snap under your blade and taking organs out and the smell that you can either do or not. It's definitely not for most.I think most people are just to weak for it nowadays.

I'm not going to touch on the topic of preservation as I don't think that is the part of it that you were after. Seems you're more asking a question of sand.
 
I would eat as much meat as I do now.

As a matter of fact I kill and process a fair bit of the meat I eat now :D

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Kind regards
Mick
 
I guess perhaps "honored" was not completely the correct choice of words. I am a hunter and whenever I take game, I just always think about the fact that I have taken a life, and to not take the act lightly.
 
On a side note:

The only thing that I don't like is when you kill a sow in the wild from a distance and find out it's pregnant when you get up to it. When you cut it open and all those little babies fall out, not so happy. In any other situation, I'm completely fine with the kill. For some reason, the unborn babies have always bothered me. I guess it's the emotional little kid in me reminding me that I'm human.

As cmdionne said, I don't take it lightly. I'm not killing out of meanness. I don't dislike the animals. At the same time, I don't feel bad about it.
 
If freezers are available I don't think there would be any change in my consumption. A lot of what I eat now is killed and prepared by my hands.

If no freezer, I would probably eat mostly fowl and fish, with beef and pork occasionally, I really can't see myself killing a cow for a couple of steaks. Chris
 
What else is new?
We've been killing and working up our own meat/poultry since I was a kid. Nothin' on Earth like a breakfast of fresh porkchop, fresh eggs, gravy, fresh cow butter and cat-head biscuits. (shut up Shawn you're making yourself hungry).

Beef, poultry, venison, pork...I'm used to seeing it all walk around at one time or another.
I can still remember the first time I watched my papaw kill and butcher a beef cow: coralled, yoked and sledge hammered. It made me sick, but it was just another day at the office for him and my grandma.

Then there was the first time I helped with a pig :barf:. I'd 10:1 rather do a cow.

wait, that didn't sound right at all...:foot:

I knew old timers who'd fight you over hog brains, cow eyes and beef tongue (they generally didn't get much opposition from my side of the table.). Then again, they came from the school that nothin' went to waste. PERIOD. My Old Pop (Grandpa) ate Mountain Oysters with no problem and swore the tongue was the best cut. I usually just took his word for it and went after the steaks...
Generally slaughtering an animal was an event that several people helped in and everybody came away paid in meat. What was left was roasted over an open fire. Them that could, played. Them that couldn't, drank. Them that couldn't drink, ate and them that couldn't eat--passed out.
Damn I miss those times (and I'm a fairly young guy--29, to be exact--so that tells you what kind of salt of the Earth people were raising me)
 
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Interesting thread :thumbup:

I believe that I would eat a lot more meat and less vegetables/fruit since it would take a lot of time to go out, hunt, kill, clean, store, and finally eat.

I guess that's why we have the local butchers nowadays, otherwise we'd be right back as hunter/gatherers all over again.

I'd say that I would eat maybe around a pound of meat, give or take 5-6 oz. Realistically, we would get very lean from only eating protein and we would eventually eat less, at least that's what I think would happen.
 
I'm pretty sure that if it had to be killed with a knife,I wouldn't eat near as much meat as I do now,unless I had a pretty good supply of poultry and pigs.I'm having a hard time trying to figure how many other animals I'd want to try to kill with a knife.Sure you could trap rabbits and squirrels,I'd rather knock them over the head,but most other wild animals and even larger domestic animals,like a cow would be pretty dangerous to kill with a knife,in my experience with them anyway.That along with the work involved preserving the meat make vegetables look a lot easier.:DEthicly,I wouldn't have a problem with it.
 
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I would continue to eat meat. I have no moral dilema at all with it. I also know that I can kill what I eat, again no dilema.

I don't quite understand the part of your question regarding how much?

I think a large part of the equation for most is how much meat can they get their hands on if they had to harvest it themselves. Are we assuming that the animals are there for the harvesting? or do we have to hunt for our food?

I am really trying to understand the question.
 
What is the scenario? Is it some hypothetical situation where all current people in the meat industry suddenly disappeared and we had to do it on our own or some type of collapse where we have to live off what we can raise or catch?

In either case I don't see it so much as an ethical issue, it is more of a practical one. Can we store the food or do we have to consume it right away? How many people do we have to feed?

The only way ethics would come in is hunting animals to extinction or letting others go hungry. People who have an aversion to slaughtering animals would lose it very quickly if they are hungry and know that services won't be restored next week. The same goes for people who don't want home-grown vegetables. There are lots of people who only want food that comes our of a box, thinking it is clean and more natural food is dirty.

If we end up raising animals and sell or barter meat, do we then disappear as well?:D
 
Benjamin Liu said:
The only way ethics would come in is hunting animals to extinction or letting others go hungry. People who have an aversion to slaughtering animals would lose it very quickly if they are hungry and know that services won't be restored next week.
Click to expand...

I'm sure Holier than thou ethics would go out the window pretty quick if you were watching your family starve.

My grandfather told stories of the depression, catching ducks with baited fish hooks, I find that appalling as a sportsman, if I'm hungry, fishing for ducks sounds pretty dang smart. Chris
 
Bejamin,

The situation is simply - how much meat would you eat if you had to kill and prepare your own?

I have the luxury of not doing so - so I am trying to measure how much would be reasonable for me if I did have to kill my own meat.

That is the reason behind the thread.

TF
 
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