Eating meat if you had to kill your intake?

I have some strictly vegetarian friends (no, they don't EDC) that are great cooks - but trying to juggle a balanced nutritional content on veges alone can be more complex than some people assume and I like the taste of meat. If I had to kill my own game/livestock I would want to eat the same amount of meat (in a balanced diet) as I currently do.

I understand the thrill of a hunt (if that was required) but I take no joy in a kill. If I made a mistake during a kill and it was prolonged or the animal had suffered more than necessary, I would feel guilty about that and try harder not to make that same mistake. If I was hungry and the knife kill was quick (with a minimum of suffering for the animal) then I don't feel guilty. I would take 'relief' in a quick kill and generally would try to use as much of the animal as practical. To me that is what 'honor/respect' for the animal means.

That said, I also agree with PrimitiveMan, there is no true 'waste'; a man has to eat, so do the scavenger critters! As an extension of that, I usually have no ethical problem with culling 'introduced pest' animals that don't belong in a particular ecological system, even if I have no intention of consuming the meat.
 
I don't think my diet would change much at all. Logistically it would be hard to eat a wide variety of meat. I don't think my family goes through a side of beef in a year we don't eat that much red meat anyway. Since we've been back in the US we've been eating a lot of deer meat.

When I was a kid we ate geese and when we wern't eating geese we ate bluefish, deer, ducks, dove, rabbits, squirell, sunnies, trout, walleye, pheasant and occasionally some animal raised on a farm like the roosters my dog killed. With four hunters in the family we kept the freezer well stocked.

I don't have the time to do that anymore but none of it bothered me, quite the contrary it was just life. My dad made a point of teaching us where our meat came from and we took to it.

There's no easy way to kill a large animal like a hog or cow instantly without a captive bolt gun. No matter how you do it it looks like an act of violence but that doesn't mean the animal has to suffer either. Still, you stab something in the heart with a knife... its a stabbing. I can fully understand how people wouldn't want to do that part. The first time I did it, it kind of stuck with me. Anymore its no big deal. BTW it is far easier than the movies make it out to be. If you can pound your fist on a table you can get a knife in to the hilt. Mac
 
Talfuchre said:
Bejamin,

The situation is simply - how much meat would you eat if you had to kill and prepare your own?

I have the luxury of not doing so - so I am trying to measure how much would be reasonable for me if I did have to kill my own meat.

That is the reason behind the thread.

TF
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If there are no more parameters than that...as much as I could get my knife into, why wouldn't I? :confused:

Are you trying to find out if you have the stomach to kill and eat what you kill? Or would you have enough time to kill and prepare your own meat?

I can kill and butcher a goat after I get off work in the evening and be eating fresh meat by 6. Like people have said, if I have access to a freezer I can probably put up a few months worth in one saturday. Chris
 
I eat a lot of deer, elk and moose. Excuse me if I don't try to run those critters down to kill them with a knife.:D I hunt a good portion of my meat and I would continue to do so. I eat meat for almost every meal, say four onces per meal. I try to mix in plenty of fish, chicken, turkey and beef/pork. I have killed pigs with a knife but never a cow, usually use the 22/22 Magnum.

I see no ethics involved with eating meat. I don't kill what I don't plan to use. Before we had electricity we used the smokehouse and the folks and grand folks canned meat. I was ten or eleven before we got rural electric service.
 
Speaking of movies......the first time I shot a hog kind of freaked me out :o

It was a headshot, it went down like a sack of potatoes - only it didn't die right away. It kicked and made noises for about 10-15 minutes, which felt like eternity watching it. My best friend said it was normal and I put a second round in it's head "just in case."

I always thought things died instantly like on the movies, I was wrong :o
 
I'd eat LESS as killing stuff with just a knife could be hazardous.I'm not experienced at butchering so a lot could get wasted,that's unethical to me.

I'd prefer to use my good skills in fishing, I can catch what I need, and eat fresh or maybe smoke some, prepare it easily with one knife and not waste things or risk eating rotting meat!
 
udtjim said:
I see no ethics involved with eating meat. I don't kill what I don't plan to use. Before we had electricity we used the smokehouse and the folks and grand folks canned meat. I was ten or eleven before we got rural electric service
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Exactly, I eat meat to stay alive, has nothing to do with ethics.
 
Talfuchre said:
Bejamin,

The situation is simply - how much meat would you eat if you had to kill and prepare your own?

I have the luxury of not doing so - so I am trying to measure how much would be reasonable for me if I did have to kill my own meat.

That is the reason behind the thread.
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I still don't see this as an ethical issue.

Practically, it would depend on my situation. Currently I have no animals in my back yard, so if I had to depend on that now I'd eat less meat since my storage meat would have to last. If I could raise my own, then I'd eat more, but it would also be a practical and economic issue, not an ethical one. If I could trade a few chickens for goods and services I need even though it means doing with one less serving of meat a day, then I'd do it.

People in the USA might think they won't kill their own meat, but that is just because they have never been starving. It is easy to say they believe in animal rights when they have full stomachs.

I've known people who can't even make cake from a box of instant mix and can only cook frozen pizza and microwave food. In a disaster they'd have to learn how to prepare food if they don't want to starve.
 
My meat intake would probably be on average about half a pound a day. Assuming feast and famine from if the hunt/trip was successful.

Interesting thread, sorry it seems to be focusing more on the question than the individual answers.

Take care,

Doug
 
TF, I'm not sure I see the association between an action that may make "city kids" squemish and the ethics of eating meat. Likewise, assuming one does cross the first hurdle that they will indeed eat meat (even though it comes from a living thing) I think the quantity consumed has less to do with ethics than it does with convenience.

What if the hypo was "Suddenly all of the grain farmers, millers, and bakers were gone, would you still eat bread, and if so how much?" The additional work to go from growing wheat, milling it and baking bread would add substantially to the work necessary to consume it, but in no way altered the underlying ethics.

-- FLIX
 
I am posting without reading any of the replys so forgive me if I duplicate anyone else, but I didn't want anyone to sway my opinion.

I have no ethical qualms about killing and eating what I kill, whether it be with a knife, gun or any other means. I feel that the quickest method to be best so that the animal does not suffer.

I would not eat any more or less if I had to kill and process it. IF the ethics of the issue were the only factor that determined how much I ate.

For me the bigger issue of how much would be determined by time. Do I have the time to kill and process and still eat the same volume that I currently eat.

I must follow up by saying that in my early 20's I worked in a slaughter house for Oscar Mayer and have seen thousands of hogs slaughtered, also I have hunted and processed game animals since I have been old enough to walk in the woods.

I love classes like this.
John
 
Talfuchre said:
I am teaching a class on ethics this semester and the debate of eating meat got pretty heated (it is an online class - a very good one I might add).

I posed this question to my class. Image all of the meat preparers suddenly disappeared - and you had to prepare your own meat from kill to table. Further imagine that you had to (safely for this thought experiment) kill your quarry with a knife (I didn't want to divorce my students from the kill). How many of you would eat the same amount of meat?

I want to pose this question to you all here. I respect your opinions - and I want to change it up - just a little. I think the vast majority would continue to eat animal protein. If you answer that you would continue to eat meat. Can you estimate how much?

I want to have a nice discussion - but I also want to figure out what may be considered an ethical amount of meat for intake for myself. If I were to reduce my intake, say, to 4 ounces of meat per day - because that is what I would kill and prepare if I needed to - then I could argue (simply to myself) that this was a more ethical meat intake.

So - post what you will on this one - but let me know your thoughts.

EDIT: I am not trying to make judgments on eating more - nor am I claiming it is wrong... in the least. I am an omnivore. However, I am seeking help on the intake of meat that I consume - as well as general thoughts. PLEASE don't think this is some sort of PETA based attack.

TF
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I think you need to outline your assumptions a bit more and especially for your students to give them an idea on everything involved - time, processes, travel, risks, cost - in hunting, cleaning, cutting and preserving the meat (versus what? going to the supermarket and eating everything but meat?) One thing you should tell them is that if you eat X pounds of meat per month that would equal about Y deer, or steer or pig per a period of time so they have an idea of the effort involved.

With all that information the students could then make an informed decision as to what they would eat.

I think most would eat less meat due to the time and cost and effort involved in doing it yourself.

In the book "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies" Diamond explains how the type and amount of food eaten is a factor of the human energy output required to gather/hunt/grow the food.

Is you question: If everything in your life remained the same; would you eat less meat if you had to hunt, kill, etc the animal? I would stop eating meat - too much work. There are other ways to get protein.
 
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Talfuchre said:
Primitive,

I had thought about preservation as well. I would simply want to preserve that deer meat in the situation above - because I don't know when my next kill would come.

After watching "Into the wild" survival meat preservation can be a HUGE problem - that movie really brought that home to me. Had he been able to preserve that elk - he wouldn't have died.

I think preservation honors the kill as well - as mentioned above.

TF
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Talfuche..after I watched "Into the wild" all I could do was shake my head..a thinking man would have built and prepared a smoke house before the hunt..not after, IMO. I am trying to think more and more about wilderness LIVING..not wilderness survival. I think most of us would have prepared the smoke house first...its just common sense. Its not like preparing a Moose is easy work, its not..its hard. But being prepared is what we are all about! Just a thought I had. Gene

EDIT: I thinkl that I would eat alot less meat....I would not have the time to prepare meat daily..smoling and drying Jerky would be a major undertaking once or twice a month..or whenever was most convienent. Inside the parameters of this hypothetical..I would assume that life has changed somehow..just a deduction from the situation that I am presented with. Lots of other work would also have come about. Gene
 
Grew up in the city and been hunting once-never even got a shot off. On the other hand, I have kille da metric TON of fish, cleaned and fried them right up-excellent food!

I would probably eat less while I was learning to process the meat and MORE once I got better at harvesting. I have zero ethical problem with killing and eating the animals.
 
I would probably eat as much meat as I do now. In terms of preservation, that depends on if I'm alone or how many people I'm with. In the ideal situation none would need to be preserved because the entirety of the animal would be shared, or it could all be preserved for later consumption and eaten in the "stack of cards" serving size that is considered a healthy daily serving.

Honestly I'd probably find myself trying to take more small game than anything else if I were on my own. Nothing larger than a goat. Oh, and a lot more fish than I do now.
 
Conversly, how much produce would you eat if you had to grow it?

As far as the meat goes, fire up the BBQ, I'll be right back with dinner :)

I wouldn't eat much fowl-- clean one and you'll find out the root for the word "fowl."

If God wants us to be vegatarians, then why did He make animals out of meat?
Also, if God didn't want us to eat meat, they why is it so tasty?
 
In regards to the OP opening post.

If only the 'preparers' mysteriously disappeared' and the ready supply of eligible critters remained constant, there would probably be little change in most peoples eating habits except for a loss of variety.

Neighbors and relatives have been joining together to buy a beef, sheep, goat, hog or part of one forever, either one of the group does the butchering or they chip in and pay someone to do it for them.

The OP did not state an equally mysterious disappearance of Freezers, Dehydrators, wood, fire, salt and other preserving methods therefore preservation doesn't enter in to the picture.

In any case, per the original question, I fail to see where anyones concept of ethics enter into the picture in any way.

If we are talking about societal breakdown as some seem to infer, the picture changes.

Slaughtering and butchering a large Domestic or wild animal (both of which would soon be in VERY short supply) would probably see a return to the old ways.

OG got a mammoth! Quick, invite all the neighbors and relatives in and eat until you're unconscious, wake up and do it again. After a day or three as the former Mammoth starts to ripen, salt, smoke, dry as much meat as you can.

And hope the neighbors and relatives will invite you and your family next time they get lucky and 'catch' some meat.

In between times you'll be eating, nuts, berries, grubs, fish if your lucky and grubbing for tubers and anything else that might be edible.

All the while hoping someone gets another Mammoth ... and soon!

And malnutrition will cull the strict vegetarians from the tribe in fairly short order.

Emotions might enter into the slaughter of animals for food, but ethics don't.

As always ... JMHO!

Regards,
:)
 
I overlooked the part about killing the animal with only a knife. For me, that would really limit the sort of game I could acquire. It'd be pretty much turtles, or maybe a grouse with a good lucky throw. Otherwise, you wouldn't find my leaping at a large animal with a blade, nor would you see me running after anything. I'd rather eat Dandelions all day than piss aropund trying to knife something tough or fast.
 
cmdionne said:
I would continue to eat meat, and I believe I would probably be eating more meat than I currently do. This would be mostly because I would be dealing with whole animals, and would not simply be able to stop by the store and pick up a couple of chops, etc. Don't want to waste anything. I don't believe there is any ethical dilemma with killing animals for food, as long as that animal is honored and the meat not wasted.
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Took the words right out of my mouth!:)
 
I would bet that I've chopped off more chicken heads and slit more goat throats than anybody on this forum.;)

Now I never enjoy killing anything, and always feel sort of sad after, but I think that is human because of our ability to empathize.

I also cannot eat anything I have killed on the day I killed it, so probably I'd eat less if I killed it all.

But right now I have a flock of over 24 muscovy ducks and about 10 roosters last year they were so prolific so I need to get on it!

If you look at religion and primitive societies there were often elaborate rituals of atonement to the principal food animal so the whole empathy thing goes WAY back:thumbup::o
 
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