- Joined
- Dec 20, 2001
- Messages
- 1,217
I am not a moderater, but I believe this thread has degenerated to the point of complete irresposibility on a number of folks who should know better. If you want to talk politics, there is a forum for that. If you want to snipe at one another, there are AT LEAST two forums for that.
Earlier today I typed out a long response to this thread that vaporized when our system went down at work. I thought I was making some valid points as a collector of handmades for at least seven years.
I noted that Les "had a good show", and I wonder what methods he employed. Did he haggle? Bring more "mid-ranged" priced knives? Treat the customer like he was important? My guess is all of the above. Sound business strategy not only in tough times. BUT ALL THE TIME!
We know Mr. Russell is looking for new ideas and is bringing his prices on most items down to par with the rest of the internet market. I dare suggest that political discussions and customer sniping is bad for business. BTW Mr. Russell, two points for you:
1) If you're looking for a new maker, I suggest you contact Elvan Allred, a student of Dr. Carter's, who is making a pretty nice knife for $600.
2) NEVER alienate a customer. Please recall a "discussion" we had several years ago in this forum. If you would care to put me back on your mailing list, I might buy some knives from you, now that your PRICES are at parity with the rest of the market.
After all, I am a good Christian.
The knife market has changed dramatically since I seriously began collecting, and I believe the focal point is the internet, which has led to explosive growth in the industry for a number of reasons.
First, we have numerous purveyors that have a large 'net presence giving us 24/7 "Virtual Knife Shows". The ability to present a newcomer, or a friend with "artistry in steel" is just a few clicks away, thereby increasing the customer base.
Second, eBay has spawned at least 2 separate species of collectors, which I like to refer to as the "Bargain Hunters" and the "Auction Addicts". "Bargain Hunters" is self explanatory. The "Auction Addicts" just don't know when to stop, creating a "I MUST HAVE IT!" mentality, which has helped fuel prices higher and higher. Needless to say, if a Bargain Hunter can snatch a valuable piece that was poorly advertised, he can have an absolute freaking field day with the Auction Addicts! eBay also provides us with a searchable database to get a feel for "fair market value" readily. If you don't believe this, I'm just paraphrasing Bernard Levine, I believe the man knows what he's talking about.
Next, we have seen the introduction and evolution of the "High-end production knife", with William Henry being the prototype company. However, I'd like to point out that the Benchmade Gold Class, Skalja, Emerson, and others didn't even exist, or were in their infancy 7 years ago! These products have further fueled demand by increasing the collector base. Let's face reality, if somebody is willing to pay $700-$2,500 for a production knife, once they truely discover the custom market there is no turning back.
Additionally, forums such as these have allowed people to gain an incredible amount of knowledge in a relatively short period time, provided that one can readily sort the wheat from the chaff.
Finally, we have had the evolution of the "Weenie Wars" which is fueled by the internet engine. You can devote HOURS to photographing, posting and generally boasting about your collection, which has further fueled demand.
Now we are faced with tough economic times. We have brought this on ourselves. Sure, Wall St., the banking industry and government all share some of the blame. However, we as a group of people spent more than we could afford, and relied on optimism and intangible assets to fuel our consumerism instead of allowing common sense to rule our spending.
I look at the knife industry as a microcosm of the general economy, but there is a difference. A knife is a tangible asset that gives its owner pleasure. If only could say the same of Bank America stock!
Anyway, I believe there is a bright side to all of this. A market "correction" if you will. I think that knives of quality makers, like quality real estate and other tangibles, will firm up. One thing I noted among makers at the ECCKS was that I bought from people who were nice to me. I only bought one "real" art knife and, a fixed blade at that (big change for me there). But I bought, and I felt I walked away with something of value. Although Les and I often disagree, I think the most important thing a maker, purveyor or retailer can do is protect and value his customer base! SPOT ON!
Earlier today I typed out a long response to this thread that vaporized when our system went down at work. I thought I was making some valid points as a collector of handmades for at least seven years.
I noted that Les "had a good show", and I wonder what methods he employed. Did he haggle? Bring more "mid-ranged" priced knives? Treat the customer like he was important? My guess is all of the above. Sound business strategy not only in tough times. BUT ALL THE TIME!
We know Mr. Russell is looking for new ideas and is bringing his prices on most items down to par with the rest of the internet market. I dare suggest that political discussions and customer sniping is bad for business. BTW Mr. Russell, two points for you:
1) If you're looking for a new maker, I suggest you contact Elvan Allred, a student of Dr. Carter's, who is making a pretty nice knife for $600.
2) NEVER alienate a customer. Please recall a "discussion" we had several years ago in this forum. If you would care to put me back on your mailing list, I might buy some knives from you, now that your PRICES are at parity with the rest of the market.
After all, I am a good Christian.The knife market has changed dramatically since I seriously began collecting, and I believe the focal point is the internet, which has led to explosive growth in the industry for a number of reasons.
First, we have numerous purveyors that have a large 'net presence giving us 24/7 "Virtual Knife Shows". The ability to present a newcomer, or a friend with "artistry in steel" is just a few clicks away, thereby increasing the customer base.
Second, eBay has spawned at least 2 separate species of collectors, which I like to refer to as the "Bargain Hunters" and the "Auction Addicts". "Bargain Hunters" is self explanatory. The "Auction Addicts" just don't know when to stop, creating a "I MUST HAVE IT!" mentality, which has helped fuel prices higher and higher. Needless to say, if a Bargain Hunter can snatch a valuable piece that was poorly advertised, he can have an absolute freaking field day with the Auction Addicts! eBay also provides us with a searchable database to get a feel for "fair market value" readily. If you don't believe this, I'm just paraphrasing Bernard Levine, I believe the man knows what he's talking about.
Next, we have seen the introduction and evolution of the "High-end production knife", with William Henry being the prototype company. However, I'd like to point out that the Benchmade Gold Class, Skalja, Emerson, and others didn't even exist, or were in their infancy 7 years ago! These products have further fueled demand by increasing the collector base. Let's face reality, if somebody is willing to pay $700-$2,500 for a production knife, once they truely discover the custom market there is no turning back.
Additionally, forums such as these have allowed people to gain an incredible amount of knowledge in a relatively short period time, provided that one can readily sort the wheat from the chaff.
Finally, we have had the evolution of the "Weenie Wars" which is fueled by the internet engine. You can devote HOURS to photographing, posting and generally boasting about your collection, which has further fueled demand.
Now we are faced with tough economic times. We have brought this on ourselves. Sure, Wall St., the banking industry and government all share some of the blame. However, we as a group of people spent more than we could afford, and relied on optimism and intangible assets to fuel our consumerism instead of allowing common sense to rule our spending.
I look at the knife industry as a microcosm of the general economy, but there is a difference. A knife is a tangible asset that gives its owner pleasure. If only could say the same of Bank America stock!
Anyway, I believe there is a bright side to all of this. A market "correction" if you will. I think that knives of quality makers, like quality real estate and other tangibles, will firm up. One thing I noted among makers at the ECCKS was that I bought from people who were nice to me. I only bought one "real" art knife and, a fixed blade at that (big change for me there). But I bought, and I felt I walked away with something of value. Although Les and I often disagree, I think the most important thing a maker, purveyor or retailer can do is protect and value his customer base! SPOT ON!
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