Economy, Good for knifemakers?

[Murray White]

Cliff -- nice to see someone tell it like it is. Should makers and collectors expect differently? Unlikely! Few have become immune to this economic disaster. The question will remain -- who will survive until things improve? Folks that spent $ that should have gone to household expense or savings will find things tough and those that had sufficient but have lost 40% of their holdings may or may not reduce spending. This will depend upon how much the 60% left is worth and the rest of their financial situation.
This likely will affect makers who will have to decide how they wish to survive. Reduce prices and sell more? Keep prices the same, sell less and reduce lifestyle? Knifemakers are no different from anyone else. Trying to match income to outgo and relate that to how much debt they either have or are willing to accept to maintain the lifestyle desired.
Unfortunately, for most folks, knife ownership comes from very discretionary income and when that drops, the knife maker will find his income dropping.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Cliff,

Yes, there were a lot of knives left on Sunday at the show. Talking with many of the New Yorkers, the economy there is very bad right now. Im sure this had something to do with sales...especially in the high end knife market.

WD Pease has come out the the Peazer, a simple knife (for him) at a $450 price point.

Like Bill, more makers are going to have to adapt their knives (and subsequently their prices) to the current market. This will be especially true for those makers whose livelihood depends on the sale of their knives.

I do agree with you that "Ego" may keep some makers from being more than honest. This will be true right up until you no longer see that at shows. Makers in particular seem to be "overly" interested in what other makers are getting for knives.

Cliff, my advise to you and other makers would be to focus on your knives and your position in the market(s) you compete in. Forget about other knife makers...THEY DON"T BUY KNIVES. Focus on your clients...address their wants, desires and needs.

 

[betzner]

Cliff -- nice to see someone tell it like it is. Should makers and collectors expect differently? Unlikely! Few have become immune to this economic disaster. The question will remain -- who will survive until things improve? Folks that spent $ that should have gone to household expense or savings will find things tough and those that had sufficient but have lost 40% of their holdings may or may not reduce spending. This will depend upon how much the 60% left is worth and the rest of their financial situation.
This likely will affect makers who will have to decide how they wish to survive. Reduce prices and sell more? Keep prices the same, sell less and reduce lifestyle? Knifemakers are no different from anyone else. Trying to match income to outgo and relate that to how much debt they either have or are willing to accept to maintain the lifestyle desired.
Unfortunately, for most folks, knife ownership comes from very discretionary income and when that drops, the knife maker will find his income dropping.

It's the here and now that is important to me, rather than the past (and forget the history repeats itself bullsh*t, guys). Murray, I think your post comes as close to what I would have said as any - logic dictates that those with the capacity, willingness and determination to come out of this economic debacle whole - they will - eventually.

Now, shall we discuss whether the world lasts long enough for this to happen, begin to discuss global warming, the melting of the glacial bodies, the rise in the ocean level - or maybe just talk about knives again and get some fun out of this forum. Anyone have some nice pics????????????

 

[m1marty]

please dont bring that chicken shit here. :thumbdn:

You should maybe take a step back and think on who you're talking to.

 

[betzner]

Hi Cliff,

Yes, there were a lot of knives left on Sunday at the show. Talking with many of the New Yorkers, the economy there is very bad right now. Im sure this had something to do with sales...especially in the high end knife market.

WD Pease has come out the the Peazer, a simple knife (for him) at a $450 price point.

Like Bill, more makers are going to have to adapt their knives (and subsequently their prices) to the current market. This will be especially true for those makers whose livelihood depends on the sale of their knives.

I do agree with you that "Ego" may keep some makers from being more than honest. This will be true right up until you no longer see that at shows. Makers in particular seem to be "overly" interested in what other makers are getting for knives.

Cliff, my advise to you and other makers would be to focus on your knives and your position in the market(s) you compete in. Forget about other knife makers...THEY DON"T BUY KNIVES. Focus on your clients...address their wants, desires and needs.

Thanks for the comments about the New York show. It cements what I had heard, but now that you've mentioned it here, I figure what I had been hearing is accurate. Man, do I agree with the rest, too.

 

[brownshoe]

AG,

Per "The problem is not his youth, it can now be seen that he intends to destroy capitalism in this country, and the middle class along with it. He an the leaders of both the house and the senate will do as much damage in the next two years as they can"

I'm not sure what you are, or where you are coming from, but since this insn't the first time you've expressed such opinions, this no longer matters to me. I have been one of your customers for at least 10 years. As a good patriotic American who supports this country's political processes even when they don't go my ideological way, I no longer can stomach your attitude and will not support you with my money.

As far as the current topic "economy, good for knifemakers," you just lost another customer. If you continue your reactionary comments, you are doing your employees a disservice by jeapordizing your business in order to publically air your opinions.

 

[Kevin Wilkins]

Reduce prices and sell more?

"Volume sales" only help if you make a net profit on every knife sold. Loose money on every sale and you're better off NOT selling many knives!

Trying to match income to outgo and relate that to how much debt they either have or are willing to accept to maintain the lifestyle desired.

Have you tried to get unsecured credit from a bank recently? I'd love to hear what CitiBank would say when you (or anybody) waltzes in asking for a line of credit to maintain a "lifestyle!"

 

[LongRifle]

There is no disputing that times are rough; true inflation, true unemployment, the markets, and GDP are at their worst in decades. For what it's worth, the number of people and businesses who have come to me for bankruptcy protection is frightening. And, I'm sure we can all agree that knife buying is directly related to discretionary income which has taken a significant beating lately.

HOWEVER, the custom knife market is under-exposed. Few people even know our industry exists. This presents a GREAT opportunity to bring "new" money into the market. So, existing customer purchases might be lower, but there's still plenty of money out there.

If we want the knife market to move forward we should collectively bring new collectors in. I've been very impressed with the CKCA, Jerry Fisk, Lin Rhea, to mention a few, who have pursued broad "advertising." I'm always surprised by the number of clients (and opposing counsel) who order knives after seeing a knife in my office. I'm still stunned how often I hear "I didn't know a knife could be made by hand...." The bottom line: there's still opportunity.

Smart makers will simply tune their designs, materials, and prices to suit the "new" market. Hell, I offer random pattern damascus blades at no additional charge...(just a little self promotion ). The people who come to me for help didn't think change was necessary, I'm certain many makers will encounter the same problem.

In all, yes the times are tough, but we're smart, we'll adapt and move forward. There's no point in blaming the past administration (even though we all love doing it), we can pick up and find the new opportunities. I highly doubt anyone is going to lie down and die. Quit complaining and do something about it .

Matt

 

[Kohai999]

If you can figure out who Brownstain is, and what he has spent with you in 10 years, let me know, and I'll spend better than that with you in the next 5 years.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Bastid]

If you can figure out who Brownstain is, and what he has spent with you in 10 years, let me know, and I'll spend better than that with you in the next 5 years.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

I'll match that.

 

[A. G. Russell]

AG,

Per "The problem is not his youth, it can now be seen that he intends to destroy capitalism in this country, and the middle class along with it. He an the leaders of both the house and the senate will do as much damage in the next two years as they can"

I'm not sure what you are, or where you are coming from, but since this insn't the first time you've expressed such opinions, this no longer matters to me. I have been one of your customers for at least 10 years. As a good patriotic American who supports this country's political processes even when they don't go my ideological way, I no longer can stomach your attitude and will not support you with my money.

As far as the current topic "economy, good for knifemakers," you just lost another customer. If you continue your reactionary comments, you are doing your employees a disservice by jeapordizing your business in order to publically air your opinions.

Well Brownshoe, I will tell you like I told the preacher, who had spent $20,000 over the years. I will say what I believe when I please and where ever I am permitted. This is sparks forum and so far I have been allowed.

Please continue to admire your own self-retraint while watching your Constitution being destroyed.

I do not suppose that you will be gentleman enough to email me with your name and address so that I can stop mailing catalogs. I am sure that you know by now that my email address is agr@agr3.com

If love of country and the Constitution makes me reactionary, so be it. I suppose that I will be put on a list of so called "Super-Patriots" Anyone who has not read the book, 1987 should do so. This is what you face if America does not wake up.

 

[Don Hanson III]

In honor of the mother of the octuplets, Denny's is offering a new breakfast meal called the Suleman:


You get fourteen eggs, no sausage, and the guy next to you has to pay the bill.


...

 

[A. G. Russell]

A.G. Russell wrote:
A.G.

That statement is a great way to piss off potential customers.

The crisis has nothing to do with the current president. It was caused by the lack of leadership of the last 8 years. They had the lobbyists write their own rules. They cut back on regulating all of the Wall Street fat cats who are the reason that the economy has failed. These people stole money because they knew that no one was watching them. This is what is hurting capitalism. The current leadership was elected fix problems that they did not create. It took 8 years of bad leadership to wreck the economy, it will take awhile to fix it.

Jim Treacy

Jim, What you say is absolutly true!1, however from January 20, there has been a purposeful deepening of our problems by both houses and the President has gone along with them for whatever reason. and it is NOT 8 years of bad leadership but 20!

 

[A. G. Russell]

Hi Cliff,

Cliff, my advise to you and other makers would be to focus on your knives and your position in the market(s) you compete in. Forget about other knife makers...THEY DON"T BUY KNIVES. Focus on your clients...address their wants, desires and needs.

This is great advice.

 

[Cliff Parker]

Les,

Believe this The last thing I worry about is what other makers are doing. I just said that to try to say that just because a knifemaker says something does not make it so.

Cliff Parker

 

[James_Terrio]

As a new maker, the year's been great so far. I've sold everything I've made... sadly that's only two knives :foot:

I've been a blue collar guy all my life (printing industry, mostly). Well, finally I just couldn't take the layoffs, slowly ebbing benefits, and so forth. The days of punching a clock for 40 years and retiring comfortably are just plain over in this country.

So I took what little I had out of the market and put a fair amount of it into steel and tools. It's time for me to stop waiting for opportunities, and create my own. I may very well end up flipping burgers to make ends meet, but that's OK. I'll do whatever it takes (legally) to support myself and my child. But in the meantime, I have to try to make something of myself.

HOWEVER, the custom knife market is under-exposed... This presents a GREAT opportunity to bring "new" money into the market.

I think and hope that you're right. As for me, I'm just trying to develop high-quality, high-performance user knives. I believe that quality will always be in demand.

Semi-customs (waterjet cut) with good steel, hand finishing, and built tough might something to look at.

Exactly what I'm thinking; a couple of standard designs, available with options, 100% handmade after having the blanks cut. Just to keep costs down, but still offer the highest quality I can. I'll continue to make what I please as well, both for fun and to address the higher end. Do you all think this is a reasonable approach?

Mr. Russell, whether you and I agree 100% on politics is not an issue to me. Regardless, the First Amendment applies to all of us Furthermore, I've only bought two knives from you but the service was fine and you delivered exactly what you advertised; this is one customer you haven't lost. Besides, your catalogs are just too pretty to miss!

I'm looking forward to reading more of all your thoughts on the economy and good business ideas.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Cliff,

Actually what I wrote was not necessiarly directed at you. But those makers who wish to complain and point the finger at others as to why their knives are not selling.

Your work, Im sure is still in demand.

 

[brightred]

it's hard to believe that most people who participate in this thread are US citizens. i have always thought (and history backs this opinion up) that disasters bring the best out of americans, optimism and confidence, belief in your abilities, skills and your strenghts.

but there is so much defeatism and pessimism in this thread, it's just saddening. this is not the america i defend against all the morons over here! some gentlemen should really get a grip on themselves! thanks!

best regards,
hans

 

[Silverdagger]

AG,

Per "The problem is not his youth, it can now be seen that he intends to destroy capitalism in this country, and the middle class along with it. He an the leaders of both the house and the senate will do as much damage in the next two years as they can"

I'm not sure what you are, or where you are coming from, but since this insn't the first time you've expressed such opinions, this no longer matters to me. I have been one of your customers for at least 10 years. As a good patriotic American who supports this country's political processes even when they don't go my ideological way, I no longer can stomach your attitude and will not support you with my money.

As far as the current topic "economy, good for knifemakers," you just lost another customer. If you continue your reactionary comments, you are doing your employees a disservice by jeapordizing your business in order to publically air your opinions.

Hey Brownstain, you could buy a Spyderco form AG Russell and then on one of your weekly Spyderco sucks threads:barf:, you can berate AG Russell as well. :jerkit:


A two for one AG Russell and Sal Glesser bitchin thread works great in a down ecomomy. Two for one is great these days.

 

[A. G. Russell]

it's hard to believe that most people who participate in this thread are US citizens. i have always thought (and history backs this opinion up) that disasters bring the best out of americans, optimism and confidence, belief in your abilities, skills and your strenghts.

but there is so much defeatism and pessimism in this thread, it's just saddening. this is not the america i defend against all the morons over here! some gentlemen should really get a grip on themselves! thanks!

best regards,
hans

Thank you Hans, I am sorry that you mis-understand what you are reading. What you see is Americans preparing for a very hard struggle back up into the light. We are trying to place ourselves realistikly so we know just where we are. No one on this thread is giving up, just trying to judge how hard the fight is going to be.