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The Military was always made in the USA.
-Kevin
-Kevin
-
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EDC General Use
- Thread starter silversport
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Oh, and no, it wasn't obvious you were speaking about the two brands in general...but if you where I still don't get it.
Spyderedge is all you would get from Spyderco cause thats what they do best...so is other brands PE better than Spyderco?!
Many Spyderco's can be taken apart...In fact I beleive all there non lockback models can be taken apart...lockbacks they rivet because taking them apart can mess with the lock spring...
D2 superior to S30V?? Not at all IMO and most others...
Much stronger than Spyderco's?? If this is about the dual steel liners, trust me that doesn't make much practical difference in a knife like this, if any difference.
Why would you only get a Spyderco if it had metal handles?? Spyderco makes G10 Micarta and FRN to the highest quality along with there metal handled knives...(S.S., Ti, Aluminum)
-Kevin
Spyderedge is all you would get from Spyderco cause thats what they do best...so is other brands PE better than Spyderco?!
Many Spyderco's can be taken apart...In fact I beleive all there non lockback models can be taken apart...lockbacks they rivet because taking them apart can mess with the lock spring...
D2 superior to S30V?? Not at all IMO and most others...
Much stronger than Spyderco's?? If this is about the dual steel liners, trust me that doesn't make much practical difference in a knife like this, if any difference.
Why would you only get a Spyderco if it had metal handles?? Spyderco makes G10 Micarta and FRN to the highest quality along with there metal handled knives...(S.S., Ti, Aluminum)
-Kevin
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Harshness was not intended if you took it that way, just stating the facts about the knife(and company) and some oppinions.
Beleive me, I love the AFCK too, and will get one someday. (And I will get rid of that black coating ASAP...:barf: .) But when I see stuff like what you posted I just feel it needs to be corrected.
-Kevin
Beleive me, I love the AFCK too, and will get one someday. (And I will get rid of that black coating ASAP...:barf: .) But when I see stuff like what you posted I just feel it needs to be corrected.
-Kevin
i really should have made more specific points... when I said metal handles I ment that they would have liners or be aluminum...
In general I think the the benchmade knife is tougher and I tend to abuse knives so tough is good...I've had the police and the 806D2 and the BM was a much better more service able knife. If you break the blade on a BM or any other part you can get it replaced.
I really like the D2 steal and I'm not so fond of vg-10 I had one blade in vg-10 that was constantly chipping and another that I broke the tip right off of...BTW I couldn't get the blades replaces cause they were rivited knives.
I only blame myself for the bad taste of leather that is now in my mouth and I do appriciate Buzz and Morgoth straighting me out...Guess were all here to learn huh
Hope all this is helping the thread starter
In general I think the the benchmade knife is tougher and I tend to abuse knives so tough is good...I've had the police and the 806D2 and the BM was a much better more service able knife. If you break the blade on a BM or any other part you can get it replaced.
I really like the D2 steal and I'm not so fond of vg-10 I had one blade in vg-10 that was constantly chipping and another that I broke the tip right off of...BTW I couldn't get the blades replaces cause they were rivited knives.
I only blame myself for the bad taste of leather that is now in my mouth and I do appriciate Buzz and Morgoth straighting me out...Guess were all here to learn huh
Hope all this is helping the thread starter
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Haha, if it doesn't then we will all look like @$$es, LOL>
Ok, while I don't agree that makes more sense. Spyderco does offer knives with liners or all metal.
Spyderco should cover it under warranty unless it was obvious abuse. (was it?) If you send it in to them they will most likely give you a new knife if it wasn't abused. They have an outstanding warranty and the best customer service out there.
Well I'm off to bed. Good night,
-Kevin
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Hey, what if I throw in an Emerson CQC7-A spearpoint into the mix???
How does THAT stack up with the others???
Bill
How does THAT stack up with the others???
Bill
AntDog
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Out of all the knives you mentioned (including the Emerson), I would choose the Military as an EDC general use blade. Hands down! I can guarantee you that the G-10 handle is tougher than hell! I have owned all the knives you have mentioned and the Military is not comparativelty weak by any stretch of the imagination! They made the handle from G-10 because it's light AND strong. If you only intend to use the knife as a knife (to cut things - like it was intended to do) you simply can't go wrong with the Military. I really think it is the best cutter of the knives you mentioned, and IMHO an excellent EDC utility knife.
Now, if you feel the need to stab through car hoods and stuff like Cold Steel guys, go for the BM. I guess I have just never been attacked by an evil, marauding car hood!?!
Now if you had said "what is the best self defense carry out of these knives?" I would have said go with the AFCK. For utility go with the Millie.
Now, if you feel the need to stab through car hoods and stuff like Cold Steel guys, go for the BM. I guess I have just never been attacked by an evil, marauding car hood!?!
Now if you had said "what is the best self defense carry out of these knives?" I would have said go with the AFCK. For utility go with the Millie.
First off, the additition of full liners adds very little weight to the knife. From the Spyderco and Benchmade websites:
Military with a 4" blade weighs 4.0 oz.
Axis AFCK with 3.96" blade weighs 4.38 oz.
Total weight difference is .38 oz or roughly the weight of 5 United States pennies. This is not very much, and probably undetectable without measuring equipment. To me, that slight weight penalty is worth the increased strength afforded by full liners. This is not only because they make the knife stronger (never know when it will need to go "above and beyond" EDC), but I also find lined knives to be more solid as well.
This is just a matter of personal preference, many people prefer the opposite. That is why these manufacturers produce such a varied product line.
I can say that I would be much more inclined to purchase some Spyderco designs if they would put full liners on their folders.
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If were my decision to make I will take an Axis lock over a liner lock any day of the week. There is absolutely no comparison in lock strength.
If it were between the Military and the AFCK I would go AFCK any day just because of the lock.
I also am a fan of lock back's. If I had to choose between the G-10 Police and the AFCK it would be the AFCK but only by a small margin. I really like the cutting performance of the flat ground Police and was pretty disappointed to see Spyderco change to a hollow grind completely. I also seriously doubt you will find a G-10 Police without hunting one down in the secondary market. The Carbon Fiber Police is nice but they should have kept it a flat grind.
As far as liner locks go, I have had better luck with Emerson's than any other brand, so if you're really leaning towards the liner lock the CQC is not a bad choice.
Regardless of what others have said, IMO having one liner precludes a knife from being called "hard use", especially a liner locking knife. Having only one liner introduces flex into the handle and is not as rigid a design a dual liners, flex in a liner lock is very bad.
In a nut shell, Go for the AFCK IMO. I have carried one on a fairly regular basis and have beat the crap out of it without the slightest hint of a problem. The Axis locking mechanism is a brilliant innovation in the cutlery industry and is hard to beat.
If it were between the Military and the AFCK I would go AFCK any day just because of the lock.
I also am a fan of lock back's. If I had to choose between the G-10 Police and the AFCK it would be the AFCK but only by a small margin. I really like the cutting performance of the flat ground Police and was pretty disappointed to see Spyderco change to a hollow grind completely. I also seriously doubt you will find a G-10 Police without hunting one down in the secondary market. The Carbon Fiber Police is nice but they should have kept it a flat grind.
As far as liner locks go, I have had better luck with Emerson's than any other brand, so if you're really leaning towards the liner lock the CQC is not a bad choice.
Regardless of what others have said, IMO having one liner precludes a knife from being called "hard use", especially a liner locking knife. Having only one liner introduces flex into the handle and is not as rigid a design a dual liners, flex in a liner lock is very bad.
In a nut shell, Go for the AFCK IMO. I have carried one on a fairly regular basis and have beat the crap out of it without the slightest hint of a problem. The Axis locking mechanism is a brilliant innovation in the cutlery industry and is hard to beat.
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Whether full liners will increase the strength of a knife or not is dependent upon the knife's design. My bet is that full liners might actually weaken the Military, if the lock was left as a liner lock. Nested liner locks do not suffer from certain problems associated with full liners.
I do agree though that Spyderco should start designing knives with full liners. Even though I doubt that the liners would add much to the strength of the knife, it would be a good marketing tool. People "feel more comfortable" with full liners. Full liners feel more substantial.
As to the initial question in this thread, I'd also go with the Military, just because it's the only knife of the bunch that you can easily choke up on. When it comes to the sheer utility value of a large folder, the ability to choke up on the blade is very important. Small cuts, which are the majority of most peoples cuts, require precision and control. I just dont think you get much precision when the tip of the knife is far away from your hand. If I couldnt choke up on my Military, Id be carrying a smaller knife instead. The Military can be a replacement for a small knife, not just a supplement that so many others are.
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Buzz or someone else correct me if I don't get this just right.
I have heard/read Sal say the single nested liner on the Military is just as strong or stronger than a knife with full steel liners because the weak point on the fully lined knife is the pins. For example, the pins shear way before the liners, or handle for that matter, give way. On the nested liner of the Military, it is actually set into a milled recess in the G-10 so that the whole handle would have to fail before the liner would slip. In a sense you would have to shear the lip out of the G-10 instead of just a few pins for failure to occur.
I suggest you go with the S30V Military.
Oh, hey Buzz, I didn't mean to bump into you.
I have heard/read Sal say the single nested liner on the Military is just as strong or stronger than a knife with full steel liners because the weak point on the fully lined knife is the pins. For example, the pins shear way before the liners, or handle for that matter, give way. On the nested liner of the Military, it is actually set into a milled recess in the G-10 so that the whole handle would have to fail before the liner would slip. In a sense you would have to shear the lip out of the G-10 instead of just a few pins for failure to occur.
I suggest you go with the S30V Military.
Oh, hey Buzz, I didn't mean to bump into you.
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I believe that your description of the benefit of a nested liner lock is right on, except for maybe one point. A liner slip is often caused by twisting the knife or using a grip that presses the liner in the wrong direction. A nested liner will not address these issues. The nested liner will prevent complete blowouts of the pins and liners under extreme downward pressure or impact, more than it might prevent slips. I could be wrong though. Sal has forgotten more about locking mechanisms than Ill ever manage to learn.
As far as flex in the handle of the Military goes, I have no worries. Has anybody ever managed to flex the handle of a Military to the point of lock failure? Ive tried to do this on purpose and was unable to slip the lock.
While were talking about locks Much of this is just theoretical. Ive been using knives all my life, and most of that time was spent using knives without locks. I cut myself the first day I had my very first knife. I learned and have not cut myself since, much less had a lock failure. If you know how to use a knife properly, the lock should be pretty far down on the list of considerations when choosing a utility folder. Ergonomics and cutting performance are just sooooooo much more relevant in our everyday lives.
As far as flex in the handle of the Military goes, I have no worries. Has anybody ever managed to flex the handle of a Military to the point of lock failure? Ive tried to do this on purpose and was unable to slip the lock.
While were talking about locks Much of this is just theoretical. Ive been using knives all my life, and most of that time was spent using knives without locks. I cut myself the first day I had my very first knife. I learned and have not cut myself since, much less had a lock failure. If you know how to use a knife properly, the lock should be pretty far down on the list of considerations when choosing a utility folder. Ergonomics and cutting performance are just sooooooo much more relevant in our everyday lives.
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One point I try to keep in mind during the discussions about handle strength, liners, etc. is that Sal has said (IIRC) that most times it is the pivot pin (not the blade, lock, liners, or scales) which fails first during lock testing - even in the FRN models.
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You ever go jogging with a knife? Every added bit of weight feels like it's holding you down... Those 5 pennies don't make much difference maybe, but you still would'nt want to do any hard running with even a little extra weight. To each his own though.
Dual steel liners also add cost to construction too, for no noticable gain in performance... I would rather not pay for something that is there only to make me feel confident, with no actual bonus. Just MO.
-Kevin
Those 5 pennies don't make much difference maybe, but you still would'nt want to do any hard running with even a little extra weight. To each his own though.Dual steel liners also add cost to construction too, for no noticable gain in performance... I would rather not pay for something that is there only to make me feel confident, with no actual bonus. Just MO.
-Kevin
I'll add my two cents...
Why I would choose the AFCK:
1)The Axis-lock. It is ambidexterous, very strong, does'nt depend on a small ball-detent to keep the blade closed, adjusts for wear better than the liner-lock, your hand is never in the blade's path when closing, and it's cool and fun to play with.
2)G-10 with dual liners. Is G-10 "strong enough" without dual liners? Probably. But G-10 with dual liners is definitely stronger. The extra weight is not enough to notice when compared to the Military, and the AFCK still weighs less than the SS Police.
There really is a performance advantage with dual liners too. When I'm twisting or putting lateral pressure on my G-10 Police (with a single liner), the handle does flex and bow at the pivot much more than my SS Endura or my Benchmade 722 (with dual liners).
3)It AFCK does'nt have the words "Military" or "Police" on the blade. It's one of the things I really dislike about my G-10 Police model. You always run the risks of someone thinking you're a "wannabe".
Now that I think about it, even if the Military had dual liners I would not buy it because I don't care for liner-locks.
It's really too bad that Spyderco does'nt have any large knives with G-10 and dual liners and is a lock-back.
Good luck,
Allen.
Why I would choose the AFCK:
1)The Axis-lock. It is ambidexterous, very strong, does'nt depend on a small ball-detent to keep the blade closed, adjusts for wear better than the liner-lock, your hand is never in the blade's path when closing, and it's cool and fun to play with.
2)G-10 with dual liners. Is G-10 "strong enough" without dual liners? Probably. But G-10 with dual liners is definitely stronger. The extra weight is not enough to notice when compared to the Military, and the AFCK still weighs less than the SS Police.
There really is a performance advantage with dual liners too. When I'm twisting or putting lateral pressure on my G-10 Police (with a single liner), the handle does flex and bow at the pivot much more than my SS Endura or my Benchmade 722 (with dual liners).
3)It AFCK does'nt have the words "Military" or "Police" on the blade. It's one of the things I really dislike about my G-10 Police model. You always run the risks of someone thinking you're a "wannabe".
Now that I think about it, even if the Military had dual liners I would not buy it because I don't care for liner-locks.
It's really too bad that Spyderco does'nt have any large knives with G-10 and dual liners and is a lock-back.
Good luck,
Allen.
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How about the Chinook?? It's everything you just described.
-Kevin
Ya know, Buzz made an important observation concerning edc utility knives.
Don't know all your ages, but if any younguns are out there, take those comments to heart. Cutting ability should be the first criteria. Go for good steel, good edge geometry, and you won't go wrong. All the rest is window dressing and personal preferrence.
Now, if you want to talk weapons, either offensive or defensive, thats another story.
Don't know all your ages, but if any younguns are out there, take those comments to heart. Cutting ability should be the first criteria. Go for good steel, good edge geometry, and you won't go wrong. All the rest is window dressing and personal preferrence.
Now, if you want to talk weapons, either offensive or defensive, thats another story.
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Readin' and soakin' it up like a sponge...there is sooooo much I have learned that after I read it is so obvious but I missed it...the really larger blades may be harder to do delicate work and many of the knives I have asked about have their "name and rep" but may or may not be good for what I need...the only problem I see is that I really don't "need" anything more than what I have but I look at all the photos you all post and I say...WOW! I gotta get one of those!
I have had a Spyderco Delica for about 10 years and never had a problem with it (G2 steel)...I have a Kershaw Avalanche (S60V) that I bought cuz it felt nice, I liked the blade shape and the speed opening is neat and quick...I have a mini-CQC7 tanto blade in Black-Ti that I bought purely for the Emerson name...it is neat to look at, feels nice albeit a little small for my hands at gets the oooohs and ahhhs from the peanut gallery.
I am trying to extend myself beyond the buyin' 'em to look at 'em to buyin' them and USING them...this Forum is a great resource and I thank each and every one of you for helping me on my way...hope you just don't kick me outta here!
Thanks,
Bill
I have had a Spyderco Delica for about 10 years and never had a problem with it (G2 steel)...I have a Kershaw Avalanche (S60V) that I bought cuz it felt nice, I liked the blade shape and the speed opening is neat and quick...I have a mini-CQC7 tanto blade in Black-Ti that I bought purely for the Emerson name...it is neat to look at, feels nice albeit a little small for my hands at gets the oooohs and ahhhs from the peanut gallery.
I am trying to extend myself beyond the buyin' 'em to look at 'em to buyin' them and USING them...this Forum is a great resource and I thank each and every one of you for helping me on my way...hope you just don't kick me outta here!
Thanks,
Bill