Edge holding ability of ATS 34

Phil, to the best of my knowledge Crucible in Canada is part of the same in the US.
As I said before, I do not want to discredit anyone especially seeing as my blade's lack of edge retention may be partly due to my lack of sharpening skills.
The said company do the cryogenic treatment too.

Another question is, is there a significant difference between the edge retention of a blade hardened to say, 59 Rc and a blade hardened to 61 Rc?
Also, can a good file "bite" fairly well into steel of this hardness if you get it on an edge or will it just skate?


Mike
 
Hi Miden. Yes there is quite a bit of difference when we're talking the same steel type. A file should skate very well at 59, with no or very little markes at 59 in ATS, or 154. At 61 your only going to ruin the file. The teeth will flatten instantly. Mike http://www.lovettknives.com/ For the file to bite, the blade would have to be around 56-57, and then only marginal bite.
 
Yes, I agree with Mike.

There is quite a noticeable difference in edge retention from HRC 59 to 61 in ATS-34.

Most production knives are in the 58-59 range, however to get the most out of ATS-34 -the hardness should be in the range of HRC 60-61.

When ATS-34 is heat-treated correctly, it comes very close to D2's edge holding capabilities -and we all know D2 (when HT'd correctly) is pretty much the "standard" when it comes to edge retention.

Point is: ATS-34 is good. Maybe it was just a bad batch of steel? Or the supplier got it mixed up with something else?
 
Mike, Flatgrinder,
Thanks for the replies.
I tried the file test with a good fine file. It did bite a bit on the edge of the knife which according to you means the steel is less than 59 Rc. File still looks okay! Seems like there was a problem with the HT.
I do not think I got the wrong steel because my supplier is pretty dependable but then he does not make the steel himself;) , I do not know who his supplier is.
As I said before,I have recieved steel at different times that has looked quite different.
Sometimes it is smoothe in the raw state and other times it has a slightly rough finish with a hard scale on it. Could this be significant?

Thanks again for the input, it seems that HT could be part of the problem.

Is it possible to anneal ATS 34 and redo the HT?

Thanks,

Mike
 
Miden, files vary some but I just took a reading on a Nickelson and it was RC63. I did some more checks on blades I have in the shop and this file slides on 59. I checked the 154CM staking tool I made at RC55 and the file just bites this. If a file bites the blade you have I would say it is in the range of 55/56. Yes there is a big difference in 58 or so and 60/61 in ATS34. This is true of all the steels we use. Hardness equals strength and high strength means the very fine edge will not roll. It is a balancing act between high strength where steels tend to get brittle and a lower value where the bending strength is adequate to prevent rolling but still not crack off. For 154CM/ATS34 that sweet spot hardness is 60/61. PHIL
 
Miden, there are differences in files but I just check a Nickolsen and it was RC63. I checked some blades I have in the shop and this file will not bite 59. I did have an old 154 blade at 56 and the file would just bite this one. I would say if a file bites your blade it is less than 56. Yes there is a big differnce between 58 and 60/61 on ATS/154. Hardness equals strenght up to the point where it is too brittle to be usefull. It is a balancing act between hard and strong enough where the edge will not roll and still have enought bending strength where the edge will not fracture off. This sweet spot on 154CM/ATS34 is RC 60/61. Your blade could be re heat treated but usally not worth the trouble. Make another one and send it to a heat treater who will certify the hardness you want... PHIL
 
Whoops, I didn't see my first post come up so did it again. Still learning how to do this. Sorry about the double post... Phil
 
Phil Wilson said:
Whoops, I didn't see my first post come up so did it again. Still learning how to do this. Sorry about the double post... Phil
Click to expand...

No problem Phil.
No problem Phil.:D

The second one had a bit of extra info at the end.
Thanks very much for the reply again.
I cannot see the name of the file I used. I know that Nicholson is a very good make, I use them every day in my trade so I am sure that my file is not in the same class and yet it still made an impression on my knife!
I filed it right on the upper edge and put a bit of a chamfer on it. (hope the wifey does not spot that):D
Yes, I have never been very happy with that knife, it is my first and I was flying in the dark. All I had was some notes I made when I attended a seminar at Owen Wood's place in S.A. in 1995. I finally made my first knife in 2000, took me long enough. I blame it on immigration etc.:D we all need excuses for tardiness.
Anyhow, by then the memories of the seminar were pretty rusty and I have made a few much better ones. Fact is, my dear wife loves the damned knife because I made it for her with my own hands. It does NOT hold an edge well for the reasons you gents have helped to figure out for me, still, she loves the thing.
Okay, I will have to make her a better one and make sure it gets the proper HT.
I have heard of some good HT specialists from you fellows on the forum but to send blades over the border for that will be expensive and maybe problematic with the customs guys.
Anyway, I will find somebody.
I feel much better about this whole thing now, I was getting reluctant to make more knives because I want to make hunting/utility knives and I figured what is the point if the darned things do not cut well. I also heard from so many reputable makers that ATS 34 is a good steel but it did not seem to be working for me.
Thanks again for the posts to you and all the others.:thumbup:

best regards,

Mike
 
Mike, no problem glad to help. If you want to work with some S30V give me an e mail. I have sent knives to Canada with no problem. I declare as a gift and seems to work ok. If you are like the rest of us if you make a few knives you will end up making a thousand. The steel grit gets in your blood. Sounds like your wife deserves a good knife so keep it up. PHIL
 
Mike as far a as re-heat treating the blade of the wifes knife, you shouldn't have any problem with this. It isn't required to anneal first. Mike
 
Phil, thanks. I will definitely shoot you an e-mail sometime soon.
I already have some steel grit in my blood, I think it can only get worse, especially if I can get some blades to cut properly!;)

Thanks for your reply too Mike (Lovett). Good to know.

Mike
 
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