Edge holding!

sinawalli said:
I am positive that the problem doesn't lie in the heat treating. My heat treating goes to a very accomplished local knife maker/ member of this forum, and his own knives perform very well. Pretty sure it is something I am doing with my edge geometry.:(
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Fat edges don't cut well, but they don't dull fast either.

If it isn't the HT (and I'm not sure it isn't) it could be a wire edge. If you create a burr while sharpening and fail to remove it, and align it to the edge by stropping, it can cut well, but dull quickly once the burr fails.
 
As mentioned earlier, if the edge is getting overly hot while grinding the edge (after heat treat), then this could be your issue.

Mike L.
 
logem said:
As mentioned earlier, if the edge is getting overly hot while grinding the edge (after heat treat), then this could be your issue.

Mike L.
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Yup. Most of those alloys won't run colors unless you get it really hot. You could cook it and not even know it.
 
sinawalli said:
I am positive that the problem doesn't lie in the heat treating. My heat treating goes to a very accomplished local knife maker/ member of this forum, and his own knives perform very well. Pretty sure it is something I am doing with my edge geometry.:(
Click to expand...

"Geometry determines how it will cut, the steel and the heat treat determine how long"
Roman Landes

I usually get 6 deer from my O-1 and L-6 blades.
Del
 
When I do D2 I use the same HT as Nathan. I left the last D2 knife I finished with my neighbor in Montana who skins and processes big game. He wants me to make him 3 to the shape he wants when I get home. Properly HT D2 will hold up to a lot of skinning and cutting.
I use 30 minutes at 1850 in foil, then plate quench, cool to room temp, then into a bucket of acetone and dry ice for 4 hours or so, then 2 tempers at 425 for 2hrs each.
 
The heat treat was done by us at Knifemaker.ca. Double foil wrap in 309SS - Evenheat Kilns - 30 to 45 min soak at temp (shorter for sandvic steels) - plate quench with 12 x 24 x 1" aluminum plates - LN2 Cryo -double temper to customer spec and each blade rockwell tested and marked before leaving the shop. In this case, we are dealing with at least two melts of CPM154 and at least two different heat treat dates - and apparently some different steels as well.

Critiques of this part welcome

Rob!
 
KnifeMaker.ca said:
The heat treat was done by us at Knifemaker.ca. Double foil wrap in 309SS - Evenheat Kilns - 30 to 45 min soak at temp (shorter for sandvic steels) - plate quench with 12 x 24 x 1" aluminum plates - LN2 Cryo -double temper to customer spec and each blade rockwell tested and marked before leaving the shop. In this case, we are dealing with at least two melts of CPM154 and at least two different heat treat dates - and apparently some different steels as well.

Critiques of this part welcome

Rob!
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Thanks for jumping in Rob!!
 
For a number of years I was under the impression the high alloy stainless steels would cut longer than simple carbon steels. In the last few years I have learn how wrong I was. Very wrong!
 
Don Hanson III said:
For a number of years I was under the impression the high alloy stainless steels would cut longer than simple carbon steels. In the last few years I have learn how wrong I was. Very wrong!
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Don

I take no position on your assertion - but there is more at play here. I have done several deer and a moose without sharpening on an ATS34 blade - that was treated without good decarb protection or any cryo at all. This steel is clearly superior to ATS34, and I'd like to think our heat treat has come a way since the days of "house of tools". I think sinawali is doing something different in edge development but I'm not sure what. If I had to guess, I'd think maybe a toothier edge - 220g maybe - would keep cutting longer - but I'd like to hear from others.

I suspect many experts rely on experience with EDC knives that get used for opening envelopes and shaving arm hair. Field dressing is a different task. Hoping to hear from some hunters that do their own edge work and sharpening. I know he doesn't need a scalpel edge - or an axe. I wish Max Searls hung out here.

Rob!
 
Ron,

I in no way was referring to your heat treating. I'm sure it's top notch all the way. I also agree that he's doin something wrong with edge geometry.

I have just had some big, eye opening tests in the last couple years with the simple verses high alloy stuff, that's all.
 
KnifeMaker.ca said:
The heat treat was done by us at Knifemaker.ca. Double foil wrap in 309SS - Evenheat Kilns - 30 to 45 min soak at temp (shorter for sandvic steels) - plate quench with 12 x 24 x 1" aluminum plates - LN2 Cryo -double temper to customer spec and each blade rockwell tested and marked before leaving the shop. In this case, we are dealing with at least two melts of CPM154 and at least two different heat treat dates - and apparently some different steels as well.

Critiques of this part welcome

Rob!
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If I'm reading that right, you're giving it a good soak at temp, quench in plates, cryo, then tempers, then Rockwell tested - in that order. That all appears to be correct to me.
 
Don Hanson III said:
For a number of years I was under the impression the high alloy stainless steels would cut longer than simple carbon steels. In the last few years I have learn how wrong I was. Very wrong!
Click to expand...

Don, from what I've seen, I think that simple high carbon steels do hold a scary sharp "showy" edge better, but in the long run continue to dull back with normal use more that some of the high alloy steels. D2 for example, seems to hold a semi sharp "working" edge better than say 1095. However, the simple steels do tend to be a bit easier to sharpen, which sort of balances things out. I also really like that scary sharp edge. :)
 
Here's my process!
-After profiling, I flat grind until edge is almost sharp.
-Hand polish to 320 grit.
-Drill holes for handles.
-Put a small flat on edge, about .032".
-Send for heat treating.
-After heat treat, hand polish a bit more, make handles, finish handles, sharpen, done deal!

Thanks for all the opinions, very much appreciated, lots of very good knife makers responded!! Merry Christmas to all!!
 
sinawalli said:
bump, I'd like some opinions on my process. Thanks!!
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For most applications, .032" might be a little too thick to apply your edge. Such a thick edge won't cut very well. Try .015-.020.

.010" if you're feeling daring.

10-15 deg per side.
 
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