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Edge Pro - Can't get burr near tip

Discussion in 'Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment' started by Bo-dacious, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    384
    Aug 13, 2016
    Hey guys, I just got my edge pro apex today and I tried my first knife. After about 5 minutes on the 220 stone I got a burr on most of the blade. I didn't get a burr on the belly or the tip. I used magic marker on the belly and tip and it revealed that the stone is at too low an angle. But only at the tip, not at the rest of the blade. I imagined this happening because the arm has to reach out and turn to sharpen the tip. So how do I fix this problem?
    Any ideas guys?

    Bo
     
  2. Blues

    Blues Lapsed SuperMod / Cattle Knife Rustler Staff Member Super Mod

    Oct 2, 1998
    Move the knife, (draw the tip in), so that the portion of the blade you are sharpening is over the center of the table in front of you.

    Don't sharpen the tip or belly "way out there" off the side edge of the table...bring them closer in to the center so that the arm maintains close to a perpendicular angle with the edge.

    Make sure you don't have much of the blade and edge overhanging the table as well.

    Take your time and keep watch on what you are doing.
     
    OilMan and Sonnydaze like this.
  3. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    988
    Sep 23, 2014
    Check with Manuel , hell know for sure :)










    How long knife?
    long blade
    page 4 (pdf page 7)
    page 7 (pdf page 10)
    short blade
    page 10 (pdf page 13)
    http://www.edgeproinc.com/manuals/EdgePro_Instruction-Manual_Apex.pdf
    http://www.edgeproinc.com/manuals/EdgePro_Instruction-Manual_Professional.pdf
     
  4. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    384
    Aug 13, 2016
    Bucket: the blade was about 7 inches so I guess 12 overall. I read the manual already.

    Blues: I will try keeping the tip right over the guide next time.

    Ben from edge pro thinks the angle on the tip may be different. What do you guys think? How can I fix that if it is the problem?

    Thanks guys,

    Bo
     
  5. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    384
    Aug 13, 2016
    Okay, I just tried sharpening with the tip over the table and the edge parallel to the edge of the table. It still only removed material from the shoulder, not the apex. What does that tell you guys? Will I have to either change the angle for the tip or reprofile the tip? Or another better solution? What do you do when the knife has 2 different angles per side?

    Thanks,

    Bo
     
  6. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    988
    Sep 23, 2014
    Hi,
    What is the answer?
    :)
     
  7. Blues

    Blues Lapsed SuperMod / Cattle Knife Rustler Staff Member Super Mod

    Oct 2, 1998
    You can raise the angle so that it will reach the edge at the tip...then you have the option of sharpening the rest of the blade at the same angle. Since it's already steeper than the angle you raised the burr with, it will raise a new burr very quickly. Of course, the DPS will be a bit higher. How much it will degrade the slicing ability of the knife is unknown.

    In the end, the choice is yours. Do you want to grind and re-profile the tip to match the angle you already sharpened with, or do you mind if the entire blade is a bit thicker? You're the one doing the work.

    Why not show us a pic of the knife so we know what you're working with?
     
  8. PeterS84

    PeterS84 Sharpening addict, collector of super steels Platinum Member

    169
    May 9, 2018
    Hard to say without seeing it, but it sounds to me like the knife was ground at a more obtuse angle near the tip. This is not uncommon when someone is quickly sharpening with a belt grinder, as is often the case with knives sharpened from the factory. I find this with a lot of knives I sharpen straight out of the box and I generally choose to reprofile the entire blade so that the angle is as consistent as I can make it. At the end of the day, it's your choice. Also, if you're going to be doing a lot of reprofiling work you may want to consider adding an Atoma 140 or similar diamond stone with large grit to your kit as it will save you lots of time in the long run.
     
    115Italian likes this.
  9. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    384
    Aug 13, 2016
    @Blues: sorry I'm confused, why is it a bit thicker in the one scenario? I don't know how to send a pic in this. I hit the photo button and it opens something that asks for a url. How do I do that?

    @PeterS84: that Atoma 140 is that one of the stones edge pro sells on their site? I was told the diamond stones are just for ceramic. But they have other new diamond stones too, is that what you're talking about?
    Also, would it be a good idea to charge extra to do a knife like this to reprofile it? (I'm hoping to open a business eventually)

    Thanks guys,

    Bo
     
  10. Blues

    Blues Lapsed SuperMod / Cattle Knife Rustler Staff Member Super Mod

    Oct 2, 1998
    Bo, the edge would be thicker because sharpening at the higher angle setting would result in the V being wider.

    If the two arms of the V are further apart, picture it in your mind...it would be thicker behind the edge.

    This:

    [​IMG]

    as opposed to this:

    [​IMG]

    Also, Bo, with respect...you need to walk before you can run. You may want to have a sharpening business down the road, but first you must master your tools and the concepts involved. It is way premature to discuss prices and rates at this point. You actually need to know the answers to all of the questions you ask here regularly, and how to deal with the issues they raise.
     
  11. Blues

    Blues Lapsed SuperMod / Cattle Knife Rustler Staff Member Super Mod

    Oct 2, 1998
    To post an image, you need to have your image hosted on a site like this:

    https://imgbb.com/

    Then after you upload your image to that site, copy then paste the direct url for the image into the box when it asks for the url here on this site.
     
  12. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    384
    Aug 13, 2016
    @Blues: I just realized what you meant by wider after I posted that. I thought you meant the blade would be thicker. And yes, I know I'm not there yet. It will be a while before I open a business. I'm just eagar to know what I will be charging, and plus, I sharpen knives for my friends and family so I want to know what I should charge them (minus a discount).

    Thanks,

    Bo
     
  13. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    384
    Aug 13, 2016
    So, should I use the 120 stone that comes with the edge pro 4 to reprofile the tip of this knife?

    Thanks,

    Bo
     
  14. PeterS84

    PeterS84 Sharpening addict, collector of super steels Platinum Member

    169
    May 9, 2018
    Diamond stones are most definitely NOT just for ceramics. The Atoma is not sold on the Edge Pro site. You’ll have to google it as the vendor I bought it from is not a supporter of this forum so I don’t think I can link them for you.

    The stones that come with your Edge Pro are aluminum oxide, except for the 120 grit which is silicone carbide. Good stones but not very effective against many of the vanadium-carbide-heavy steels.

    Trust me, get some diamond stones for the Edge Pro. It’ll open some new doors for you and will likely save you a lot of time. If you’re seriously going to move forward with this as a business it’s almost mandatory.

    If you have to do a serious reprofile job, I would charge more. I don’t sharpen professionally but anything that takes extra time or extra effort/resources should theoretically cost the client more money otherwise it’ll cease to be worth your time as the vendor.

    With that said, I’d wait on opening a business. I think there is going to be quite a bit more practice needed, tools accumulated, and experience gained before you’re going to be ready to do this on a professional level. No offense meant, just calling it like I see it. Best of luck.
     
  15. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    988
    Sep 23, 2014
    Hi,
    So what did you decide?
     
  16. Sonnydaze

    Sonnydaze Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 6, 2009
    YES....watch the YouTube video by the guy who invented this sharpener. He demonstrates using VERY long-bladed knife. With a long blade of 6" or more, you may have to shift the blade two or three times to more coincide with the center of your sharpener.
     
  17. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    384
    Aug 13, 2016
    Peter: so you mean I should buy those diamond stones sold on the edge pro site the 2 different ones course and fine or whatever in addition to the atoma?
    Do you think I should charge extra if I just have to reprofile the tip? Not the whole blade?
    Oh none taken, as I said before I'm well aware that I have a long road of studying and practicing before I can open a business.

    Bucket: I'm going to try reprofiling a knife and also try to just change the angle of the stone for the tip on a different knife and see what takes less time.

    Thanks guys,

    Bo
     
    bucketstove likes this.
  18. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    384
    Aug 13, 2016
    I just tried reprofiling the tip then I did a different knife and reprofile the rest of the blade to match the tip. I was wondering if I have to take the edge all the way back to the shoulder or if I can make sort of a micro bevel? Or would that be considered crap work?

    Thanks,

    Bo
     
  19. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    384
    Aug 13, 2016
    Okay so I've discovered that some knives have 3 angles per side. One at the heel to the belly, one at the belly/tip and one at the very tip. Like the last half inch. I've taken to drawing a line on the spot where each angle is where the pivot rests but the lines are smearing so that's not working. I'll try my new red riter pencil I just thought of that but then the other side has different angles than the first side. So I don't know what to do. If a customer brings me the knife, does the whole edge have to be super sharp or can I leave the last half inch?
    Please help guys.

    Thanks,

    Bo
     
  20. me2

    me2

    Oct 11, 2003
    Some knives are sharpened on a sled type jig or held in a way by hand that approximates a sled jig. In these cases, the blade is held perpendicular to the stone, but is not turned to follow the curve of the tip. As the abrasive approaches the tip, the angle increases. The more curved the belly and tip, the more of an increase. You can see this on Mora knives. As the grind goes toward the tip, the bevel narrows, increasing the angle. The Mora I had was about 10 degrees near the handle and increased to about 14 degrees per side near the tip. Also, tips of factory knives are sometimes left ground thicker. Tips break, so manufacturers leave them thicker. However, this means that if you rebevel them, the new edge bevel can widen considerably as it approaches the tip of the blade.
     

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