Edge Tester - 3D

I own a PT50B that I got off exchange.
So much to say, I understand hardheart's nvm...
This thread prompted me to do some homework, along with going to thingiverse to see if Creative Commons (CC) was used. It is used as a filter.
Using CC for 3D printing makes sense as assumption is copies will be made. But a copy of someone else's intellectual property not bound, as files posted, by the CC agreement falls into copyright law. Google reports the 2014 "Edge-On-Up sharpness tester" patient was abandoned in 2018 because of paperwork. I cannot find any other Copyright, Trademark and Patients on Michael's intellectual property.
The patient office report.
 
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scottc3 said:
..I cannot find any other Copyright, Trademark and Patients on Michael's intellectual property.
The patient office report.
Click to expand...

Correct, I came to the same conclusion when starting this experiment. No patent, no copyright and no intellectual property. On top of that, Mike himself from Edge on up does not seem to have a problem with guys making their own testers and running experiments like these. This is actually what motivated me to run this experiment. (See thread linked further below)

Thanks for the link scottc3 scottc3 , this makes for some really interesting reading and some really good info about what cut media they use.

In all of that abandoned paperwork, it is pretty clear that that plain old 0.254mm (0.01") monofilament or fluorocarbon coated monofilament fishing lines are used the "official" test media. Good to know, I'll have to run some experiments with various 0.254mm fishing lines.

This also means that using a plain kitchen scale and fishing line wrapped around 2 screws/bolts with nuts in a wood block (like countless guys are doing) is actually a really viable solution for sure, as long as you watch the scale carefully. I'm still most impressed with the one miso2 miso2 made, especially the scale he eventually built himself! Next level stuff. https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/diy-sharpness-tester.1667584/

Mike himself from Edge on up actually answered a question about kitchen scales and guys using it to test cut (just like I'm doing here), and he did not seem to have a problem with it. His answer in that thread is actually what prompted me to run this experiment. Thread here - https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/edge-on-up-sharpness-tester-question-thank-you.1693059/

Interestingly, my 0.235mm monofilament (plain, non-coated) gave me slightly too high a reading compared to the official results. I could not originally find 0.254mm fluorocarbon but will have to try that for sure!

Perhaps 0.254mm fluorocarbon coated monofilament line would cut easier than plain 0.254mm non-coated monofilament line?

Perhaps the coating strengthens the line enough that it does not "stretch" before cutting, thus causing lower readings than the 0.235mm I tried? Any thoughts?

This is going to be a very interesting ongoing experiment.
 
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Read thru both forum links. Thx, nice seeing Mike's comment. I previously spent enough time evaluating the available details of Mike's system to understand my time and skill limitations, concluding that my family would be best served by buying Mike's tester.

Brian's thoughts and opinions and 777Edge's responses read clearly while inferring a bunch of preconceptions, all fine and good imo. This interaction caused me to spend time doing homework as stated already, writing, and reflecting on my life experiences, and the latest storm of new brands in recent years.
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a few thoughts -
Opportunities, there is no lacking opportunities, unless we unthinkably throw out the baby with the bath water. I love the makers and their work I have come to know, respect, and then support; let’s encourage more maker’s.
Early on, the software industry paid for piracy research, with reports mirroring what early hardware / software folks experienced, teens pirating is a journey that sometimes leads to tech and engineer careers, with most software piracy behavior dropping to cost-acceptable levels around 25 years old. In partial response, today many software packages offer free and / or accessible learner use. Valuing intellectual property is defined in laws, policies, regulation, treaties, government subsidies, etc. The free world creates huge value from research, invention, innovation, and entrepreneurial opportunities.
 
EOU does say to tension the filament with a 100 gram weight. I have both a PT50A and a few digital scales so I think I will have to see just how close the scales are to the real thing. I am not as worried about my scale being "calibrated" with everyone else's. I just want to be able to quantify differences in my own sharpening. One surprise was too much diamond on my strops dropped my score from 40 to 75-80. Sure, I knew too much was bad but seeing the test results was quite interesting.

My fiber holder holds the fiber between a flat washer and a flat surface so it will hold just about any diameter.
 
I just don't understand why some people like to complicate things that are so simple. You just gently pull the filament until it is straight and not sagging, then snug up the screw - that's it; simple, easy, quick, and consistent.
 
I'm looking forward to some results playing with weighting EOU's testing line, weighted and unweighted, as I have duckduckgo / google foo'd and found no narrative or video about setting up or demonstrating the tester with a 100 gram weighted line. Also wondering if you no longer need to lock 45 degree canted screw if using 100 gram weight?
 
For sake of clarity
DIEMAKER AT

Any Interest in a BESS Sharpness Competition?

That is understood. Since I got a tester just like the one that will be used I want to duplicate as many of the test conditions that will be used, I suspect tensioning the filament will be a big one. I found someone making a 100-gram clip-on weight to tension the filament and I figure Shawn...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com
“ Apr 29, 2021
#105
I registered my PT50A yesterday and asked if they recommended tensioning the test fiber and that I had heard of 100 grams but couldn't confirm. Their response was yes, 100 grams. So it looks like it is official.

NORTHWEST+KNIFE_GUY AT

Any Interest in a BESS Sharpness Competition?

That is understood. Since I got a tester just like the one that will be used I want to duplicate as many of the test conditions that will be used, I suspect tensioning the filament will be a big one. I found someone making a 100-gram clip-on weight to tension the filament and I figure Shawn...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com
“ Apr 30, 2021
#107
CasePeanut said:
Can you share a link to the clip-on weight please? I’d like to check it out. Tensioning always seems subjective on mine.
NORTHWEST+KNIFE_GUY SAID
I just use short surgical clamp on mine that I added weighted tape to, 100g total.
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I don't see the 100 gram tension in the manual so I "assume" you don't think it is important?? It is a good idea, just like torque wrenches for bolts. The tension on the media makes a difference. Not enough and the score is high, too much and your edge scores really well! This makes me think this is how some YouTubers get single digit scores. I also find clipping my weight to the end of the line allows me to have just 3/8" of line past the locking knob so I waste less.

I first caught wind of the 100 gram tension on one of Shawn's videos.
 
Diemaker said:
I don't see the 100 gram tension in the manual so I "assume" you don't think it is important?? It is a good idea, just like torque wrenches for bolts. The tension on the media makes a difference. Not enough and the score is high, too much and your edge scores really well! This makes me think this is how some YouTubers get single digit scores. I also find clipping my weight to the end of the line allows me to have just 3/8" of line past the locking knob so I waste less.

I first caught wind of the 100 gram tension on one of Shawn's videos.
Click to expand...

I think it's a waste of time for people that love to complicate things. But that's fine, people can do as they please. I just won't take their results seriously.
 
Again trying to be clear -
though I will confess, as a global thinker I always over think things...

Read old manual with out of date loading instructions for old media fixture, not sure what was to be gleened?
Here is Mike's AUG 11, 2018
INTRO AND COMPARISON BETWEEN OLD FIXTURE AND NEW ATF10G on
Edge On Up ATF10G Tutorial

ALSO FOUND OCT 2020 EOU STATEMENT REPORTED BY GREEPER
EOU position on 100 gram weight, FROM Brian’s 3-21-2020 use report at bessex

“ grepper Offline Super Member
*****
Posts: 925Threads: 71; Joined: Mar 2017; #8; 10-19-2020, 09:36 PM
"Correct me if I'm wrong -"

Well, okay. Smile You are 50% correct.
Negative on the slack media. EOU specifies the ideal test media tension with the ATF series is 100g. That's the same as 17.63 US quarter dollar coins or 20 US nickel coins. Not much tension, but not slack.
You are correct on over tensioned media. Over tensioned media can indicate sharper than normal readings. Test clips for instance read 20% too sharp. This can be normalized by wiggling the legs holding the media to loosen the media slightly or normalizing the reading by -20%.
That said, it's not all that sensitive or critical and you don't need to over-think it. When threading the media, just pull it across and gently remove the slack.
Slicing the media instead of push cutting will cause over sharp readings. Proper technique is to slowly push cut the media with the blade perpendicular to the media.”
 
I am 100% correct. 20 nickels is WAY too much weight. If you must use a weight then use 1 small alligator clip.
 
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Okay, I broke my PT50A out and did some checking. All you need to do is hang a small alligator clip on the end of the filament - mine is a copper alligator clip that weighs 1.26g. That's all you need. When you snug up the locking screw it will give the test media the tension that it needs. You will have the exact same tension every time.
 
Seriously, I wonder how the old, new ATF10G, or Competitive AT20C fixtures effect readings. Hmm, 2 factory fixtures, and only one is specified for competition with the PT50-A... 100 grams or the AT20C for my PT50-B, whats best?
For me, the work that resulted in the factory's 100 gram recommendation becomes less hazy as I "plumb" the subject...
 
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Brian,
Watching you use your Edge On Up tester in your ”Toothy vs Polished Edges Round 2!" utube video,
I noticed you wrap testing line around your ATF10G fixture locking screw, but Mike's utube intro just slides line into slot and tightens screw. What led to your technique?
 
scottc3 said:
Seriously, I wonder how the old, new ATF10G, or Competitive AT20C fixtures effect readings. Hmm, 2 factory fixtures, and only one is specified for competition with the PT50-A... 100 grams or the AT20C for my PT50-B, whats best?
For me, the work that resulted in the factory's 100 gram recommendation becomes less hazy as I "plumb" the subject...
Click to expand...

It's more hazy for me. I can't believe that they would say something so idiotic.
 
Question for you guys who have the aluminum test fixture - does the act of tightening the angled screw not put additional stretch on the test media line, making the line sightly tighter?
 
777 Edge said:
Question for you guys who have the aluminum test fixture - does the act of tightening the angled screw not put additional stretch on the test media line, making the line sightly tighter?
Click to expand...

Yes, it does slightly snug the test media. That's the point I was trying to make. You can see it happen when you tension it properly.
 
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