educate me on what a traditional folder is...and is not

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colubrid

colubrid

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Getting back to a topic that was closed by an admin. I would like to know what a traditional pocket knife is? Or what qualifies a folder to be a traditional for this sub forum?

We know that it cannot have a lock.
No thumbstud or one hand opening
no pocket clip


What about the age of the design?
Is it American made only?.. or are European knives also considered traditionals?
 
There are many old traditional knives that have locks, locks are not a new thing. A century ago switchblades were very popular and were one hand opening and locking.

The other questions you are asking can have very long answers if we go into detail, I will let other people do that. However I will say that there are traditional pocket knives from many regions around the world, some are very different from the standard traditional pocket knives we are used to in america. Some are very similar to our traditional knives like many knives that have come from germany and england. Opinels and laguioles are both very traditional french knives, the navaja is a very old traditional spanish folder. Those knives differ a bit from the norm of traditional american pocket knives. The barlow knife can have its origin traced to england, but it is was also a widely used pattern in america before and after the civil war, it is also a culturally significant knife in america to this day.
 
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jackknife said:
Simple formula is, if your great granddaddy would recognize it as something or one of his buds carried, then it's a traditional.
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I am 60 years old. When I was a kid growing up in Austria my dad gave me his slipjoint knife. Which was a 2nd world war knife from the 1940's. He was in the german army under Hitler. That knife looked like the Impinda.

So is it age or country or origin?
 
Age of the pattern would determine it to be traditional rather than the country of origin would. What makes a knife traditional is it's adherence to an old, traditional design. If a knife was made yesterday but follows a traditional design pattern then it's still a traditional knife, the actual knife does not HAVE to be old to be classified as traditional.
 
I would add a knife does not have to be American made, even if its considered a traditional American pattern. I haven't been on the porch here long myself, and have posted pics of my Rough Rider brand barlow and sodbuster patterns. Their made in China, but very good knives imho. Very affordable. Everyone has been positive,on the "Porch" as its called here, I've encountered no snobbery towards myself or anyone else. Rough Rider are popular here, and people are genuinely happy for you if you post your latest $10-20 RR as they are over a $100-200 custom.
 
It's not just an age thing. Knives like a stockman, trapper, Barlow, are typical American patterns and certainly traditions. But there are a ton of non American traditional knives that the design goes way way back. Like the French Opinel, Laguoiule, and Douk-Douk, the German Mercator K55, the puuko from Scandinavia, the Resolza from Sardinia, The Lamb's foot from England, the Navajo and Taramundi from Spain, the Higonokami from Japan are all very traditional knives.

If you can go back a couple generations and end the same patterns of knives being used today that were in use back then, and recognizable as almost unchanged from when your great granddaddy was around, then its a good bet it's considered a traditional.
 
TheChunk91 said:
Age of the pattern would determine it to be traditional rather than the country of origin would. What makes a knife traditional is it's adherence to an old, traditional design. If a knife was made yesterday but follows a traditional design pattern then it's still a traditional knife, the actual knife does not HAVE to be old to be classified as traditional.
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So a German knife pattern that was made during the 2nd world war would be considered a traditional design?
 
colubrid said:
Getting back to a topic that was closed by an admin. I would like to know what a traditional pocket knife is? Or what qualifies a folder to be a traditional for this sub forum?

We know that it cannot have a lock.
No thumbstud or one hand opening
no pocket clip


What about the age of the design?
Is it American made only?.. or are European knives also considered traditionals?
Click to expand...
Don't look for a hard line separating traditional knives from non traditional. Many characteristics would appear to disqualify a knife will show up in some quite venerable designs. The liner lock would appear to be non traditional but it goes back pretty far in both American and European designs. One hand opening gets mentioned a lot, but the scallop cutout allowing one hand opening on a man's shoe or pant leg appears on knives just after the Civil War. How about modern materials? Well, plastic has been around a long time in all sorts of forms. So have varieties of stainless steel. And it would be silly to disqualify a knife that uses modern materials like G10 and titanium if they were used to produce a knife that was a perfect copy of an old design.

Here are some things I think we can agree on (though a hard look may come up with exceptions):

•Thumb studs
•Perforated blades (for opening, i.e. the Spyderco hole, the Victorinox OHO, and so forth)
•Pocket clips

Country of origin cannot be a limiting factor as we include knives from all over the world. Age is not a good guide as the Buck 110 dates only to 1964 and the 112 to 1965. The Le Thiers only goes back to 1994, though I can see how some might call it untraditional (nevertheless it seems welcome here).

I think I'll read the thread you linked and see whether it alters my opinions.

Zieg
 
I would certainly say so. I would also add if you got pictures I for one would like to see them. A knife like that would have a neat history I think, having been carried by your father during the war. Then passed down to you to add your own history to it.
 
TheChunk91 said:
Yes.
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Well I agree with you TheChunk91. But I was hoping the persons who determine things here (like Gary and Knafeng) would chime in on :"what is a traditional pocket knife" because they think differently about the Impinda.

Knarfeng (who is the moderator here) said this about the Impinda:

To me, the reason to have a thread devoted to this knife in the Traditional Forum is to explore the definition of "what is a traditional pocket knife." Neither Gary nor I consider this a traditional pattern. Slip joint or not, clip or not, it does not have a traditional look to it, though I am certain that it's a gorgeous piece of cutlery.

At this point, I think it's best to close the thread.
 
Well, all I have to say about the impinda is that I agree it's not a traditional knife. It's a modern knife with some traditional features, and that's all there is to it.

Could you post some pictures of this WW2 knife of your father's?

If you'd like to have a good idea of what traditional knives look like, I would recommend going to the top of the traditional forum and there's a sticky thread called "old knives". Some very nice cutlery shown there, and all traditional.
 
I agree that the CRK Impinda is not a traditional looking knife. Design is a subtle thing, though. Small changes can make a big difference. We'll need to see this WWII era knife you're referring to. Until then it's all speculation.

Zieg
 
colubrid said:
Getting back to a topic that was closed by an admin. I would like to know what a traditional pocket knife is? Or what qualifies a folder to be a traditional for this sub forum?

We know that it cannot have a lock.
No thumbstud or one hand opening
no pocket clip


What about the age of the design?
Is it American made only?.. or are European knives also considered traditionals?
Click to expand...

There's a description in the rules that are pinned to the top of the forum.

"Relevant Subject Matter & Decorum:

The "Traditional Folders and Fixed Blades" sub-forum is defined as follows:

Discussion of classic Hunters, Trappers, Lockbacks, Slipjoints, Skinners and other classic "traditional" designs...

...In other words, this is a non-commercial knife discussion forum with the focus centered squarely on traditional knives and patterns such as you'll find in this reference:

51QQ8Z86EYL._SS500_.jpg

A bit more detail:
If a regular knife user of the mid 1960's would find nothing out of the ordinary about the design, then it's traditional.

That means large Buck 110-ish lockbacks are in.

SAKs date to the late 1800's. If they are not one hand opening, they are in. (See comments on materials of construction.)

Modern locking mechanisms such as Walker liner locks, pocket clips, holes / studs to allow one hand opening are all out. (Traditional liner locks, such as the lock on a TL29, are in.) Add a clip to a stockman, and it needs to be posted elsewhere. By the same token, if it is traditional except for a clip and you remove the clip, feel free to post it here.

We tend to have some tolerance when it comes to fixed blades. But, new designs with features such as glass breakers, are not included in this forum.

We give leeway on materials of construction. So if you have a nice stockman with G10 covers, it's traditional enough for us. After all, plastics have been used on knife handles since the 1800's. Stainless steel has been used in cutlery since the 1920's, so stainless is considered traditional. And even though PM alloys are new developments, that fella in the mid-1960's would never know the difference if he were looking at the knife, so they are OK, too.

Posts and/or threads that are a better fit elsewhere on bladeforums.com (as well as redundant/duplicate threads) will be moved to the appropriate sub-forum or merged with a pre-existing thread. (Normally a link to the thread will be left behind temporarily.)"
 
Howdy colubrid colubrid . In case you haven't seen it, here's a bit more detail from the Guidelines For The "Traditional Folders & Fixed Blades" Sub-Forum sticky.

If a regular knife user of the mid 1960's would find nothing out of the ordinary about the design, then it's traditional.

That means large Buck 110-ish lockbacks are in.

SAKs date to the late 1800's. If they are not one hand opening, they are in. (See comments on materials of construction.)

Modern locking mechanisms such as Walker liner locks, pocket clips, holes / studs to allow one hand opening are all out. (Traditional liner locks, such as the lock on a TL29, are in.) Add a clip to a stockman, and it needs to be posted elsewhere. By the same token, if it is traditional except for a clip and you remove the clip, feel free to post it here.

We tend to have some tolerance when it comes to fixed blades. But, new designs with features such as glass breakers, are not included in this forum.

We give leeway on materials of construction. So if you have a nice stockman with G10 covers, it's traditional enough for us. After all, plastics have been used on knife handles since the 1800's. Stainless steel has been used in cutlery since the 1920's, so stainless is considered traditional. And even though PM alloys are new developments, that fella in the mid-1960's would never know the difference if he were looking at the knife, so they are OK, too.
Click to expand...

So, yes, the folder from your father would probably be considered traditional by those guidelines.

Getting to the broader question, though, it's very hard (probably impossible) to lay out an exact set of criteria for what is traditional and what is not. At some point it comes down to a judgment call based on shared experience. I invite you to hang out here for a while and take a gander at the wide variety of knives that are posted in the What "Traditional Knife" are ya totin' today? thread. It won't take you long to get a feel for what most folks here consider traditional.

Incidentally, I found this post by @pinnah in the Puukko Purist Questions thread to be very helpful in understanding why it is so hard to define a set of rules to say that X is or is not traditional.
 
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