educate me on what a traditional folder is...and is not

[supratentorial]

In my opinion, the Impinda is more similar to the Sebenza and Inkosi than the old knife shown in the quote below. It's a slippery slope. A large percentage of modern knives are derivatives of folding hunters. But in my opinion, it is not ONLY the modern locking mechanisms (as opposed to traditional locking mechanisms) and thumb studs that make them more appropriate for General forum rather than the Traditional forum. They don't really look like the traditional folding hunters.

Is this the design you're referring to? This one ostensibly comes from WWII Germany. I can see some resemblance to the Impinda.

Zieg

Is there any benefit to discussion of the Impinda in Traditional forum rather than in General or Chris Reeve forum? In my opinion, there's not.

A lot of folks seem to think any slipjoint is traditional. In my opinion (not the forum rules), it is the pattern that makes a knife traditional. That becomes a bit problematic because a lot of folks don't know patterns. The reference to Levine's Guide in the Rules is good but there are knives in the book that are not considered appropriate for this forum. The Leatherman PST is one example. Here are a few examples of traditional patterns. There's a more complete list in Levine's Guide.

 

[veitsi_poika]

It sounds like he only wants an answer from the Mods so everyone else's efforts are likely not going to help. To me, I have not seen many traditional knife patterns from the 60's or before that have removable pocket clips with screw attachments.

 

[colubrid]

In my opinion, the Impinda is more similar to the Sebenza and Inkosi than the old knife shown in the quote below. It's a slippery slope. A large percentage of modern knives are derivatives of folding hunters. But in my opinion, it is not the locks alone that make them more appropriate for General forum rather than the Traditional forum. They don't really look like the traditional folding hunters.



Is there any benefit to discussion of the Impinda in Traditional forum rather than in General or Chris Reeve forum? In my opinion, there's not.

A lot of folks seem to think any slipjoint is traditional. In my opinion (not the forum rules), it is the pattern that makes a knife traditional. That becomes a bit problematic because a lot of folks don't know patterns. The reference to Levine's Guide is good but there are knives in the book that are not considered appropriate for this forum. The Leatherman PST is one example. Here are a few examples of traditional patterns.

Ummm, those are American knife patterns.

The Germans during WWII had a knack for progressive designs . Look at their uniforms, artillery or just the Luger handgun. They were quite a bit ahead of the times.

 

[Planterz]

We know that it cannot have a lock.

I assure you that we do not know that. Plenty of traditional blades lock. The Buck 110/112 is an obvious example, as are many other lockbacks. Liner locks, as Michael Walker revolutionized, are modern, but there have been liner locks for many decades prior to that, in the form of a thin brass (usually) liner, as an extra measure of safety to a slipjoint. There are also a variety of switchblades that are traditional, from the Schrade Press Buttons to the orange handled paratrooper knives, to Italian stilettos.

For me, which may or may not jive with other opinions, is that a traditional knife (in terms of what's acceptable for this forum) cannot have modern construction. Mainly, this means take-down construction, TORX screws, etc. Should be pinned and not disassemblable. However, I feel this can be forgiven if the style of the knife is otherwise traditional enough. For example, there's the Lionsteel barlows. It's a barlow with the classic long bolster, it requires 2 hands, there's no clip, and the handle scales are natural or a synthetic used in other traditionals. Enrique Peña does a Lanny's Clip that often uses TORX construction, which would pass as traditional to me, because they're otherwise traditional enough. He also makes them with framelocks, which I would not accept as traditional.

Knives that don't qualify, IMO, would be this new CRK Ipinda (even without a clip), the Spyderco Roadie, the Boker City Tool, and most that use a bearing detent rather than a backspring. There's simply not enough of the old style, and too much of the new, to be considered "traditional" to me.

Other's opinions may vary, of course.

 

[colubrid]

Is this the design you're referring to? This one ostensibly comes from WWII Germany. I can see some resemblance to the Impinda.

Zieg

That is close but not what I had. Mine was more flat and I think had finger choils in the grips. Well that one does have some scalloped area for a finger groove on it.


Well that should be close enough to prove my point. Good find!

 

[supratentorial]

Ummm, those are American knife patterns.

The Germans during WWII had a knack for progressive designs . Look at their uniforms, artillery or just the Luger handgun. They were quite a bit ahead of the times.

Yes those are American patterns. I am American and that's what I had handy. It was not intended to exclusive. There's a more exhaustive list with some foreign examples in Levine's Guide (the book referenced in the forum rules). There's are also some other good books on traditional knives made in other countries. I have a book written by Dominique Pascal about French knives. There's also a very good book written by Anthony Carter on German knives.

 

[colubrid]

I assure you that we do not know that. Plenty of traditional blades lock. The Buck 110/112 is an obvious example, as are many other lockbacks. Liner locks, as Michael Walker revolutionized, are modern, but there have been liner locks for many decades prior to that, in the form of a thin brass (usually) liner, as an extra measure of safety to a slipjoint. There are also a variety of switchblades that are traditional, from the Schrade Press Buttons to the orange handled paratrooper knives, to Italian stilettos.

For me, which may or may not jive with other opinions, is that a traditional knife (in terms of what's acceptable for this forum) cannot have modern construction. Mainly, this means take-down construction, TORX screws, etc. Should be pinned and not disassemblable. However, I feel this can be forgiven if the style of the knife is otherwise traditional enough. For example, there's the Lionsteel barlows. It's a barlow with the classic long bolster, it requires 2 hands, there's no clip, and the handle scales are natural or a synthetic used in other traditionals. Enrique Peña does a Lanny's Clip that often uses TORX construction, which would pass as traditional to me, because they're otherwise traditional enough. He also makes them with framelocks, which I would not accept as traditional.

Knives that don't qualify, IMO, would be this new CRK Ipinda (even without a clip), the Spyderco Roadie, the Boker City Tool, and most that use a bearing detent rather than a backspring. There's simply not enough of the old style, and too much of the new, to be considered "traditional" to me.

Other's opinions may vary, of course.

I would not consider the Roadie to be a traditional either because of the completely different blade shape. However the Impinda does have a traditional clip point blade with a nail nick.
I grew up in Austria in the 60's and there were lot of slipjoints back then that had slim all metal grips and resembled the Impinda. For me it was common. And so it was for my father and grandfather (who was a big knife nut himself because he had a hut full of folding knives who were also in Austria grew up with this pattern ) ... so I guess it comes to the shape of the handle and which country your from. Because in Austria this was a more common design. Here in the USA people just were not exposed. So it really comes down to a USA knives vs old European grip shapes and designs.

BTW the Impinda winning best Ameriocan knife at Blade show this past week has nothing to do with the blade shape or the handle. It has to do with the spring design .. which is quite a bit different from any slip joint I have ever seen.

 

[colubrid]

It sounds like he only wants an answer from the Mods so everyone else's efforts are likely not going to help.

well ya! I would like if they would chime in since they make the decisions around here. This is their forum and I just wanted a more clear definition on the handle shape (since that is what everyone seems to be debating).

 

[Hickory n steel]

If a relatively similar knife could have been carried in the 60's or earlier then it's traditional.
There are grey areas so you have to use your best judgement and not try to sneak something in based in technicalities.

The CRK impinda just plain doesn't look traditional at all.

 

[supratentorial]

Because in Austria this was a more common design. Here in the USA people just were not exposed. So it really comes down to a USA knives vs old European grip shapes and designs.

Here is a description of knives similar to the example shown by Zieg from Levine's Guide (the book referenced in the forum rules). I disagree with colubrid that it is similar to the CRK

"Before World War I, German companies such as Henckels

and Herder introduced a light, simple, clasp-type folder with

wood handles and no bolsters called a Schlactmesser Zum

Zulegen (folding butcher knife). Though Union Cutlery

soon copied the German style of farmer’s clasp knife, the

pattern had negligible sales in the United States until 1967,

when Case introduced its 4 5/8-inch “Sod Buster” with

black composition handles and bird’s-eye rivets."

 

[mitch4ging]

well ya! I would like if they would chime in since they make the decisions around here. This is their forum and I just wanted a more clear definition on the handle shape (since that is what everyone seems to be debating).

Seems like they already did make the call here:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/crk-impinda.1588010/page-3#post-18139339

 

[Misplaced Hillbilly]

Is this the design you're referring to? This one ostensibly comes from WWII Germany. I can see some resemblance to the Impinda.

Zieg

Hmm ww2 era German folder, very similar to these no?

I read an article once that said the pattern we call a sodbuster is descended from a folding butcher knife from Germany. That German immigrant knife makers brought the pattern with them from Solingen. If this thread is about some great old German/Austrian knives, awsome but if the whole point is to rehash the impenda, well think I'll just politely bow out now....

 

[Planterz]

BTW the Impinda winning best Ameriocan knife at Blade show this past week has nothing to do with the blade shape or the handle. It has to do with the spring design .. which is quite a bit different from any slip joint I have ever seen.

I honestly do not understand the point you are trying to make. Frankly, I find this thread and your tone distasteful. The previous thread was already locked, with explanation as to why the Impinda didn't fit in the Traditional Forum. You asked to be "educated", but everything you say is merely a continuation of that locked thread. It seems like you're more interested in being right than showing any sort of willingness to understand and accept the spirit of this forum.

 

[Misplaced Hillbilly]

Here is a description of knives similar to the example shown by Zieg from Levine's Guide (the book referenced in the forum rules). I disagree with colubrid that it is similar to the CRK

"Before World War I, German companies such as Henckels

and Herder introduced a light, simple, clasp-type folder with

wood handles and no bolsters called a Schlactmesser Zum

Zulegen (folding butcher knife). Though Union Cutlery

soon copied the German style of farmer’s clasp knife, the

pattern had negligible sales in the United States until 1967,

when Case introduced its 4 5/8-inch “Sod Buster” with

black composition handles and bird’s-eye rivets."

Beat me to it .

 

[Sabercat]

The CRK Impinda site starts off by saying "Our vision was to make a modern slip joint..."

They succeeded.

 

[TheChunk91]

Stick a fork in this thread.

 

[colubrid]

The CRK Impinda site starts off by saying "Our vision was to make a modern slip joint..."

They succeeded.

So the ibackspring spring and pivot it is why it does not fit into the category of a traditional?

It is modern. In terms of the spring has been improved to a better walk and talk and the way the knife has a more solid open position . It also has a precise pivot bushing system . Which are all improvements on a traditional blade shape and grip design. I just wanted clarfification and it seems the jury is about 50/50. That is why I wanted better clarification from a mod.

It does not resemble a traditional "American made" pocket knife.

 

[bonzodog]

I would class this as a modern traditional.The takedown construction as apposed to pinned makes me think that way.Lovely knife,but I suspect it will put a lot of purists off.

 

[supratentorial]

I grew up in Austria in the 60's and there were lot of slipjoints back then that had slim all metal grips and resembled the Impinda. For me it was common. And so it was for my father and grandfather (who was a big knife nut himself because he had a hut full of folding knives who were also in Austria grew up with this pattern ) ... so I guess it comes to the shape of the handle and which country your from. Because in Austria this was a more common design. Here in the USA people just were not exposed. So it really comes down to a USA knives vs old European grip shapes and designs.

That is close but not what I had. Mine was more flat and I think had finger choils in the grips. Well that one does have some scalloped area for a finger groove on it.


Well that should be close enough to prove my point. Good find!

Do you have a photo of your knife? If it is common and all of your family members had the knives then surely you can help us out with a photo! The Impinda looks more like a Sebenza or a Inkosi than a sodbuster.

 

[r8shell]

There have been a couple of mentions of thumb studs not being traditional, but I have an old Cattaraugus that has a thumb stud for one hand opening. It belonged to my wife's grandfather. It looks pretty much like this:

http://www.cuttingedge.com/knife/klc10070_camp_knife

That's not a thumb stud. It's a can opener thingy.

I just wanted clarfification and it seems the jury is about 50/50.

50/50? I'd say 100% of moderators told you it's a modern knife.

Seems like they already did make the call here:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/crk-impinda.1588010/page-3#post-18139339

Sometimes it's as much a matter of aesthetics as of mechanics, but to paraphrase Justice Potter Stewart, "I know it when I see it."