ELMAX Steel Chips Easily?

No issues on my 0560 (sn 1128). Likewise on various other ZT's I have in Elmax (0566, 0770, 0770CF, 0801), as well as my Kershaw Speedform 2. The Speedform 2 is probably the oldest, but the 0560 is the one I've had the longest.

Road ice (w/ who knows what mixed in it) and dirt/rocks can be rough on knife edges, even on tougher, impact-resistant steels. I've even chipped up a BK11 in 1095 CroVan (which they treat at 56-58 HRC) cutting weeds out of the ground (rocks and such in the dirt), and that is a really tough steel.

If you believe you have a heat treat issue with your particular knife, you might try contacting KAI's warranty service. They can provide better guidance. If they determine you have a faulty sample, I'm sure they'll replace it for you under warranty.
 
I have a nice little custom in ELMAX that is HT'd to 62 HRC. One day I was trying to shave some splinters off a laptop-tray thing I have, but it turns out they were actually steel staples. I'd cut pretty much half way through it before realizing it, and it only dented the edge which was sharpened to about 26 degrees inclusive.

You sure it's CHIPPED and not just dented? The maker on for mine kind of burnt the tip, so one day it snapped when I was trying to cut a little pilot hole in some plywood. So even on a 1) Possibly burnt HT and 2) Super acute edge, I haven't ever seen chipping except for that one time the tip snapped.

ELMAX isn't just super tough stainless steel, but if I recall only a handful of carbon steels are tougher than it either.
 
I have had quite a few elmax blades including two 560s, a 561, a 770CF, three 801's and a 562. Out of the ones that I used, the 770CF, 560/1s and the 562, none of them had this issue, even when sharpened to around 16 degrees per side. I would say the heat treat is off, send it to ZT and tell them the issues and they would probably replace the blade.
 
The freezing cold weather can have a huge effect on most blades taking something that is already hard and basically increasing the rigidity causing it to be more brittle in actual freezing weather, there are several videos on ootube showing the chipping in snowy conditions.
 
My 0560BLK which has been sharpen to convex edge chipped just by cutting some cardboard.

10867077_751413601579421_1673604088_n.jpg
 
You might have gotten one of the older batches of the 0560 that had the heat treat diminished by over-grinding. ZT has sinc fixed this issue, and I'm not sure exactly when that change happened, but you still may have one of the older ones.

If that was the case then it wouldn't suprise me too much that this happened, but honestly depending on how cold it actiually was outside and how long you were having to do this it's also not impossible that the combination of the chopping action and the cold just made the blade more brittle than it normally would be. Cold can have a great deal of effect on blades and their toughness, depending on the makeup of the steel and the shock/stress that it is experiencing in the cold.

Elmax is normally one of the toughest (most chip-resistant) stainless steels, when it is heat-treated properly. It is rarely outclassed in that department, and the ones that can outdo it in toughness lose out in edge retention and stainless properties. Faulty heat-treat, extreme cold, and use that the blade was not designed for can make any blade fail though, so one of those may have played a major factor in the chipping. Most folding knives, especially frame locks, are not in any way designed to be chopped with, as it will put too much strain on the stop pin, and can cause lock failure. There are a few folders that are insanely durable, and can handle chopping, but they are few and far between, and a fixed blade should always be used instead.

I guess the long and short of it is that there were probably a lot of factors playing in to the chipping, but you would have been better off in all likelyhood with using a fixed blade with a high-toughness tool steel instead, with a blade designed more for chopping.

I do however understand that this was likely not something you had on hand, or you wouldn't have been using your folder in the first place.

Just my .2
 
shqxk said:
My 0560BLK which has been sharpen to convex edge chipped just by cutting some cardboard.

10867077_751413601579421_1673604088_n.jpg
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As long as it was standard cardboard, this is NOT normal. That is one of those instances that I would definitely suspect a bad heat treat.
 
Never had chipping problems with any of my Elmax.

Some of you guys really need a technically detailed painted picture of how someone would hack at a few branches from a tree with a pocket knife?? C'mon..... :chargrined:
 
Haven't seen any problems with ELMAX in the various knives I have seen with different grinds and various HRC ranges from 58 to 62.
 
The Kai representative who used to post here denied heat treatment problems existing.

20 degrees per side is thicker than angles on an axe. That shouldn't chip.
 
I only have one blade in Elmax and haven't had any problems. But I have not used it hard either. Frankly, I would be talking to ZT/Kershaw about this issue.

Ice should not chip a knife blade in my opinion, but a frozen branch just might.

My lesson from this is to keep an appropriate seasonal set of tools inside your car or truck.
 
Ankerson said:
Haven't seen any problems with ELMAX in the various knives I have seen with different grinds and various HRC ranges from 58 to 62.
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Hey Ankerson, I've read most of your research on here, and thanks for the input. Haveyou ever had experience with these steels in colder temperatures, or even bellow 0? I have seen several reports that it can change some of the properties of some steels, but I wanted to know if you knew anything about it.

Fanglekai said:
The Kai representative who used to post here denied heat treatment problems existing.

20 degrees per side is thicker than angles on an axe. That shouldn't chip.
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And since then Kai has had to admit that there was an issue with their grinders overheating the blades because of insufficient cooling and burning out the heat treat in the blades. They have since rectified the issue, but again, there are going to be some knives out there by ZT that will have this issue, though it wasn't a 100% consistent issue to start with, so there's no easy way to tell if one has a problem or not.

Of course, when soemthing like this happens, it has to be considered a possibility.
 
Charr said:
Hey Ankerson, I've read most of your research on here, and thanks for the input. Haveyou ever had experience with these steels in colder temperatures, or even bellow 0? I have seen several reports that it can change some of the properties of some steels, but I wanted to know if you knew anything about it.
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Not so much these days, hardly see anything below 20 degrees.

Back when I was younger I saw down to -50 degrees a few times and in the -30 range for awhile, but that was like 30 years ago.
 
Fanglekai said:
The Kai representative who used to post here denied heat treatment problems existing.

20 degrees per side is thicker than angles on an axe. That shouldn't chip.
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Wrong...

They are typically in the 35 to 50 degree range (17.5 - 25 per side) depending on the actual use of the axe (what it's going to be used for).

Splitting mauls are even higher, usually 50 degrees (25 per side).

And there are different types of axes for different uses and they will have a different bit shapes.

Sharpening an axe correctly is a complicated job.

This has been discussed before and more than once.

This is the typical recommendation here:

http://www.gransforsbruk.com/en/axe-knowledge/caring-for-your-axe/sharpening/
 
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I try to replicate the grind angle that is currently on an axe when sharpening. For years, I might as well buy an new axe as sharpen up an old one unless it was on a bench grinder which I avoid using for anything I care about.
 
22-rimfire said:
I try to replicate the grind angle that is currently on an axe when sharpening. For years, I might as well buy an new axe as sharpen up an old one unless it was on a bench grinder which I avoid using for anything I care about.
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A file and round stone are the best things to use as most felling axes are convex anyway, carpenters axes are more flat ground (V edge) so they tend to be easier and lower angles as they are used for carving.

The actual edge angle on a felling axe is one heck of a lot steeper than some like to lead on, so they tend to use the relief angle measurement to feed their agenda.

Take a felling axe and try to use it with the angles they are wrongly using as reference and the edge would fail very fast because it would be too thin and it would stick and not break out chunks of wood. The last thing one needs is a felling axe that bites too deep so they would be using too much energy trying to pull the axe out.

15 degrees per side would be fine for a carpenters axe as they are used for carving and lighter work, but would fail on a felling axe or a splitting maul.
 
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Isn't normal convention to put any knife through a sharpening a few times, which often resolves any chipping issues from heat issues from sharpening at the factory? I've been putting an Elmax up through its paces cardboard, green wood etc... No issues so far.
 
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