ELMAX Steel Chips Easily?

Ankerson said:
Most people really don't know how hot it really had to be to have any real effect.

Now the edge can be over heated quickly on power equipment if it's not cooled.
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Ive seen on crucibles website that their rex 121 can achieve a hrc of 61 at temperatures of 1500 if I can remember, interesting stuff. Thanks for teaching me a little more about steels!
 
BladeMaster99 said:
Ive seen on crucibles website that their rex 121 can achieve a hrc of 61 at temperatures of 1500 if I can remember, interesting stuff. Thanks for teaching me a little more about steels!
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2200 and 1025 for max hardness of 70.5.
 
Ankerson, it is so refreshing to read your un bias posts regarding steels and heat treat. Your knowledge that you share is appreciated!
 
Dirtykoala said:
If hacking at 1"-1.5" wet soft branches is too much for a knife to handle, it might be from Big 5.

I keep a chainsaw in my truck, but that seemed excessive.
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Just checked this thread. Bottom line, hacking with a folder is not something I feel is proper usage. Also, I am from central Maine and am really impressed that you have a chainsaw in your truck. Carry on... Russ
 
Final Option said:
Ankerson, it is so refreshing to read your un bias posts regarding steels and heat treat. Your knowledge that you share is appreciated!
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Thanks, I try to bring some clarity to threads like these if I notice them. :)
 
james terrio said:
The short answer is, I have absolute confidence in Elmax with pro-level HT taking a very crisp edge, performing extremely well and holding up to a lot of "hard use". I happily entrust both my life and my livelihood to it.

I have my Elmax blades (whether paper-thin kitchen cutlery or much sturdier "survival" knives) HT'ed by Brad Stallsmith at Peters Heat Treat. I have no idea what HT service or protocol bigger manufacturers are using.

Elmax is pretty dang tough. Not just "tough for a stainless steel", but just plain tough... frankly, I'm very pleasantly surprised by its overall resilience. In my experience, it holds its own just fine with classic carbon steels in rough use like hacking with a thin edge and digging through wood with a fine tip, while exhibiting much better resistance to abrasive wear.

My friends and I have used my Elmax knives at 58Rc with a pretty thin edge HARD - some would say abusively - with remarkably little dulling and no chipping at all. I'm talking about chopping/splitting nasty gnarly red oak full of knots, among many other demanding tasks. Mind you, all that was at ambient temps from 50F to 90F, so very cold temperatures may have some effect... I honestly don't know.

I have not yet done that sort of testing on Elmax at 60Rc, but I will. If that goes well, I'll run a batch at 62Rc and see how that holds up.

On the other hand... sometimes I think you cats are a little too persnickety about what you call "chipping"... the pics of "failures" I'm seeing in this thread are not at all catastrophic, and could be easily sharpened out.

Any small knife with a thin grind, made of any steel, could possibly "chip" that way... lots of factors come into play. I realize that our standards are high, but personally, I would not be offended by a tiny ding. I've seen $400 customs shatter under less strenuous work... that offended me. ;)
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There are a lot of factors involved in how an edge will fail.

As we know it will fail in one of two ways, it's going to chip or it's going to roll, steel and hardness doesn't matter, they all will fail either way once it's pushed beyond the threshold of the geometry that the edge can handle, again steel doesn't matter. That will vary based on a number of factors.

That's why I look at threads like this and sit back and I am just amazed at the amount of misinformation that gets passed along, it's really astonishing when you think about it.

The reality of the internet is that nobody is expected to know everything and nobody really does so they tend to post what they heard or read someplace or what they think is happening based on their own perception.
 
ive never had elmax but here in ND the knives i use get a lot of sub-zero use and abuse as a necesstiy ..when hunting or ice fishing or just everyday chores outside when feeding the chickens or whatever i use my knives to cut lots of items and never ever blamed the cold on getting dull and i guess i must not use the chipping style steel or shallow edge grind....Now the reason i dont blame cold on steel when i look outside and see all the steel stuff that my life and others depends on and never see any steel fail due to cold..maybe from not starting but.. or are you saying its only knife super steels that the cold can effect?? jeff
 
rc4u12 said:
ive never had elmax but here in ND the knives i use get a lot of sub-zero use and abuse as a necesstiy ..when hunting or ice fishing or just everyday chores outside when feeding the chickens or whatever i use my knives to cut lots of items and never ever blamed the cold on getting dull and i guess i must not use the chipping style steel or shallow edge grind....Now the reason i dont blame cold on steel when i look outside and see all the steel stuff that my life and others depends on and never see any steel fail due to cold..maybe from not starting but.. or are you saying its only knife super steels that the cold can effect?? jeff
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For the most part it's a myth.
 
My 0566 in Elmax chipped pretty bad trying to cut through a high pressure Kevlar impregnated hose. Has anybody done hardness testing on the early ZT Elmax blades?
 
Ankerson said:
For the most part it's a myth.
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It's not a myth. Germans fighting on the Russian Front in -30 to -40 degrees Celsius reported steel handles and levers on artillery pieces breaking with "astonishing ease". I observed this myself on a large metal piece closing my garden gate at -25° C: The piece broke easily, from light hammering, on the largest part of its cross-section, which was incredibly large, like a full one square inch accross... This was just poured untempered steel... Performance of steel is easily affected beyond -15° C, and probably more so on very thin pieces like the edge of a knife... Not to mention that for edges, whatever is being cut is often harder when it's cold...

One thing to remember is that windchill doesn't count, but a knife in cold weather probably should be carried inside the waistband and not outside the vest imho...

Gaston
 
Same here. My ZT 0550 in S35vn chips easily. It only hit some plastics. I really question the heat treatment of ZT knives.


Edit, the issue may be caused by overheating during factory sharpening which almost happens on every production knife company.
 
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I have used and sharpen Elmax many times. The angle you sharpen your blade to was to acute. Brush cutting tools are usually sharpen to have that or even more. If your sharpening angle leaves your blade to thin. Your blade will dent or chip when being used to cut hard materials. My ZT0562 never chipped but it did dent. It was as sharp as a razor. I probably wouldn’t chop with it but I definitely could whittle my way through thicker materials.
 
Wow this is a old thread!
Larrins article was great.

I have used Elmax for some time. I find that Peter's does an excellent job with it. I've ran it at 61HRC and it's pretty tough from what I have seen. A few clients of mine love it.

I plan on making a few camp knives at around 59 or 60HRC.
 
I have a few bars of Elmax in the shop.
Might mess around with a few camp knives and some small EDC blades today.
I have one order for a mini kephart that I have to redo. I messed up the handle on the last one.
 
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